Bertie and Gerry, is it all over now? (sniff!)

Villain

Originally posted by Earthman
:eek: :eek: :eek:


The enniskillen bomb wasn't ethnic cleansing??

I don't think so, it was a cowardly act of terrorism killing both sides of the devide!!

Sherlock

Originally posted by irish1
I don't think so, it was a cowardly act of terrorism killing both sides of the devide!!

Weren't only protestants killed in that particular bomb? After all it was planted at the rememberance day parade which was only like to attract protestant onlookers.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
I believe each group is unique, the Nazi's slaughted thousands of inocent people basically for ethic cleansing, The IRA carried out terrorist activity to achieve their goal of reuniting the island of Ireland.

Now I'm not going to say the IRA were right, but they were trying to regain something that was taken away by an Empire that killed innocent people and threw them off their own the land. They were not carrying out Ethnic Cleansing

I juts don't think you can compare the 3 groups.

What about FF being like Mafia??

The IRA (throughout it's history) have most certainly been involved in ethnic cleansing. There have been concerted campaigns at various periods over the last 80 years to murder and remove protestants from areas in Ireland - particularly around the border area. There was a particularly vicious campaign during the 50s. Loyalist paramilitaries were guilty of the same thing in East Belfast and North Antrim.

As for FF=Mafia. I won't deny that some of their members were corrupt, and were subsequently expelled from the party. But do FF murder people, or do they have links to organised crime? No. Does Sinn Féin have links to organised crime? Rumours say Yes. Does Sinn Féin have links to terrorists? Yes.

Has Sinn Féin ever expelled even one single member of their party for murdering an innocent civilian? No.

Could someone provide proof that categorically senior household names within sinn Féin are not in the IRA.

That would clear it up.

I mean it is unfortunate that Sinn Féin have ties with the IRA( whether social , innuendo or otherwise ) such that these accusations can credibly be made.

The accusations are out there so why not prove them wrong?? why is it so difficult.

I would suggest the reason is that the association is so see through that it's difficult or nigh on impossible for Sinn Féin to disassociate them selves from it.

The only answer then is to cease all activities and to verifiably distruct the weapons.

It would be a good day for SF, if that was done and a bad day for paisley

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak

As for FF=Mafia. I won't deny that some of their members were corrupt, and were subsequently expelled from the party. But do FF murder people, or do they have links to organised crime? No. Does Sinn Féin have links to organised crime? Rumours say Yes. Does Sinn Féin have links to terrorists? Yes.

Has Sinn Féin ever expelled even one single member of their party for murdering an innocent civilian? No.

I think the corruption in FF has caused a lot of people lives to suffer, maybe not directly but indirectly.

What about FF's links to gun running, were these guns not used to murder people???

Mighty_Mouse

And people call Shinners extremists!:eek:

The points of view expressed here have included:

- the IRA are the same as Al Queda
- Sinn Fein are the same as Nazi's


I really couldnt be bothered responding to this. I think even Ian Paisley's jaw would drop a little reading it though!

:eek:

all I can say is lol lol lol lol
Roll on June if thats the best people opposing Sinn Fein can do!

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
I don't think so, it was a cowardly act of terrorism killing both sides of the devide!!

..as opposed to a brave act of terrorism, like placing a bomb in a city pub, or leaving a bomb in a crowded shopping centre, or placing a bomb under the car of (say) a unionist counciller, or shooting an small-village RUC officer on his beat from a hill-side a half mile away before running away...I could go on all day.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
And people call Shinners extremists!:eek:

The points of view expressed here have included:

- the IRA are the same as Al Queda
- Sinn Fein are the same as Nazi's


I really couldnt be bothered responding to this. I think even Ian Paisley's jaw would drop a little reading it though!

:eek:

all I can say is lol lol lol lol
Roll on June if thats the best people opposing Sinn Fein can do!

The only reason you won't respond to it, is because you simply can't defend the allegation.

Mighty_Mouse

Oh sorry i nearly forgot that the IRA were undertaking ethinic cleansing!!:D



Can anybody else smell the urine flowing down Bertis trousers

Sparks

Seems McGuinness has decided to up the ante...

BreakingNews.ie:

Justice Minister Michael McDowell must “put up or shut up” over his allegations that senior members of Sinn Féin have been involved in IRA criminal activity, Martin McGuinness said today.

The Mid-Ulster Sinn Féin MP issued a challenge to Mr McDowell to substantiate claims he made in a series of interviews about Sinn Féin’s links to the provisionals.

Mr McGuinness said at Stormont the Progressive Democrat Minister’s comments were motivated by the forthcoming local government and European Parliament elections in the Republic.

He accused the Dublin minister of being “anti-working class” and “anti-republican”.

Mr McGuinness declared: “I am not going to stand by and listen to this rubbish from someone who calls himself an Irish Government Minister.

“I hear him making other allegations and I say to him either put it up or shut it up.

“It’s very well to make accusations but it is a whole other thing to substantiate those allegations.

“I think Michael McDowell needs to remember that he is the Minister for Justice. He is not the Minister for Judges and he is certainly not the Minister for Juries.”

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
..as opposed to a brave act of terrorism, like placing a bomb in a city pub, or leaving a bomb in a crowded shopping centre, or placing a bomb under the car of (say) a unionist counciller, or shooting an small-village RUC officer on his beat from a hill-side a half mile away before running away...I could go on all day.

As i said I don't support the IRA's actions, I don't think ethinic cleansing was what they were doing.

Again ReefBreak and maybe you might reply this time:

What about FF's links to gun running, were these guns not used to murder people???

Originally posted by irish1
I don't think so, it was a cowardly act of terrorism killing both sides of the devide!!

Errr No it was a bomb planted to inflict maximum casualties on security forces, protestants and unionsts.

Which is ethnic cleansing at it's most base level.

Now For the IRA to be seen to be holding onto the equipment, whose only use is to carry out such atrocities is bad for Sinn Féin as long as the latter has an association with the former.

I think the corruption in FF has caused a lot of people lives to suffer, maybe not directly but indirectly.

*what FF corruption is worse than murder and corruption combined??
Are you serious??* {edited to exchange the word FF for IRA there}

What about FF's links to gun running, were these guns not used to murder people???

Hang on a second there...
Is that the IRA you are defending by saying FF were at it in 1969-70
Or is it SF ties with the IRA you are defending because FF were at it in 1969-70?
Or Both??

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Oh sorry i nearly forgot that the IRA were undertaking ethinic cleansing!!:D



Can anybody else smell the urine flowing down Bertis trousers

The IRA campaign during the 50s that included murdering protestants in border areas was considered ethnic cleansing. If you vote for Sinn Féin, this is the type of murderous scum that you are voting for. Deal with it. Personally, I still can't come up with one single reason why anyone would vote for them.

Villain

Originally posted by Earthman

what IRA corruption is worse than murder and corruption combined??
Are you serious??

Did I say that, NO!

I'm simply poiting out that FF were involved in corruption as well.

Originally posted by Earthman

Hang on a second there...
Is that the IRA you are defending by saying FF were at it in 1969-70
Or is it SF ties with the IRA you are defending because FF were at it in 1969-70?
Or Both??

I'm not defedning either, I'm simply telling it as it is. FF were involved in gun running, guns that were probably used for murder, I think FF supporters shouldn't throw stones in galsshouses!!

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
If you vote for Sinn Féin, this is the type of murderous scum that you are voting for.

Ok maybe 3rd time lucky ReefBreak.

What about FF's links to gun running, were these guns not used to murder people???

Originally posted by irish1

I'm not defedning either, I'm simply telling it as it is. FF were involved in gun running, guns that were probably used for murder, I think FF supporters shouldn't throw stones in galsshouses!!

Well they can now, unless you can show that they have held and used illegal weapons for murder in the last thirty years.

Why mention FF at all??
You are by extension justifying the IRA position by doing so.

Mighty_Mouse

Could someone provide proof that categorically senior household names within sinn Féin are not in the IRA.

Lol

Cant wait til your in court and have to PROVE your innocence!

The only answer then is to cease all activities and to verifiably distruct the weapons. It would be a good day for SF, if that was done and a bad day for paisley

Again Earthman.

How?
Givin Paisley a headache - your raving! And maby if you follow NI politics for another few years you will see this.

The only reason you won't respond to it, is because you simply can't defend the allegation

Yes, I'm at a complete loss to spot and differences between the Al Queda and IRA, Sinn Fein and Nazis's, Gerry v's Hitler, The Troubles v's ethnic cleansing, Eniskillen v Auswitch !!

OMG , Ive been wrong for all these years. !!! You've cured me reefbreak! I see the light!!!!!!!! Up FF ( a party with no association with an armed struggle whatsoever and full of pure innocent, solely politically motivated (brown-envelope) people), ........

...........


lay of the reefers reefbreak.

...I could go on all day.

and so could catholics/nationalists/republicans. Whats your point?

Theres hurt on both sides. An ability to lists these incidents should provide you with an understanding for them. But obviously not in your case

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
As i said I don't support the IRA's actions....

Yet you're willing to vote for the political wing of the IRA.

Originally posted by irish1
Again ReefBreak and maybe you might reply this time:

What about FF's links to gun running, were these guns not used to murder people???

Under Jack Lynch, three members of FF were on trial for amrs smuggling. All three were acquitted, two left the party, one later became Taoiseach. At the time the FF party were never guilty of pandering to the wishes of terrorists. In fact they were even hugely criticised from republicans in the north for "abandoning" catholics in areas hit by protestant rioting.

But if you're suddenly suggesting that FF are responsible for the murder of over 1800 people over the last 30 years, you'd be wrong - it was the IRA.

Villain

Originally posted by Earthman
Well they can now, unless you can show that they have held and used illegal weapons for murder in the last thirty years.

Why mention FF at all??
You are by extension justifying the IRA position by doing so.

Oh right so if IRA disband next year then in 2035 everything they done will be forgiven and they can accuse any other party of murder etc

I'm bringing FF into it to show that SF are not the only party to have ever had links to Murder!

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Yet you're willing to vote for the political wing of the IRA.

I am willing to and will Vote SF because it's my democratic right to do so!

Originally posted by ReefBreak

Under Jack Lynch, three members of FF were on trial for amrs smuggling. All three were acquitted, two left the party, one later became Taoiseach. At the time the FF party were never guilty of pandering to the wishes of terrorists. In fact they were even hugely criticised from republicans in the north for "abandoning" catholics in areas hit by protestant rioting.

But if you're suddenly suggesting that FF are responsible for the murder of over 1800 people over the last 30 years, you'd be wrong - it was the IRA.

Did I say they were responsible for the murder of 1800 people, NO, now stop trying to put words in my mouth. I was pointing out that the party has had links with gunrunning, and one of those accused went on to be the leader of the party, oh and he happened to be corrupt too, which I believe was proven.

Have any of McDowells claims being proven no!!

Sparks

Originally posted by irish1
I am willing to and will Vote SF because it's my democratic right to do so!

That makes no sense - you have a democratic right to vote, not a right to vote Sinn Fein.

Villain

Originally posted by Sparks
That makes no sense - you have a democratic right to vote, not a right to vote Sinn Fein.

Thats a bit of a stupid statement Sparks

I have a right to vote any Party or person I like, or is there a new law that I have missed?

Sparks

Originally posted by irish1
Thats a bit of a stupid statement Sparks
I have a right to vote any Party or person I like, or is there a new law that I have missed?

*sigh*
Not what I said. To go through it again:

You were asked "why vote SF?"
You responded "because I have a right to vote SF!"
I said "Actually you have a right to vote for anyone you want, not just SF", trying to point out that you hadn't given a reason for voting for them. You have a right to vote FF as well, for example, but you're voting for someone else - therefore the right to vote sinn fein can't be the reason to vote sinn fein.

Clearer?

Villain

Originally posted by Sparks
*sigh*
Not what I said. To go through it again:
Clearer?

I have to vote ANY party, which includes Sinn Fein.

So I have a democratic right to vote Sinn Fein, or Labour or an independent etc.

Your just twisting the phase to suit your argument.

PS. Read back through the thread I gave my reasons for voting them earlier

Mighty_Mouse

Can a person not vote for Sinn Fein without supporting the IRA? I think Irish is well within his rights to do so.


The IRA have been on cease-fire for 10 years.

P.S
Cant deny the similarities between Sinn Fein and FF political history

PPS
June!

Sparks

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
The IRA have been on cease-fire for 10 years.

You mean they haven't shot anyone.
As I've said elsewhere, it may take more time to beat a man to death with a sledgehammer, but they're investing that time....

Villain

Originally posted by Sparks
You mean they haven't shot anyone.
As I've said elsewhere, it may take more time to beat a man to death with a sledgehammer, but they're investing that time....

There is no direct evidence to say the IRA has breached their ceasefire, however unfortunately there is other republican groups who are involved in crime like the other Loyalist groups!

Sparks

Originally posted by irish1
There is no direct evidence to say the IRA has breached their ceasefire, however unfortunately there is other republican groups who are involved in crime like the other Loyalist groups!

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the IRA hasn't been involved in punishment beatings over the last decade? Hell, they've even been involved in that kind of thing down here, in the run-up to the last election. Or didn't you follow Martin Ferris's campaign?

monument

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Excellent stuff from McDowell. I agree with him 100%. Sinn Féin are indeed the closest thing we have to an Irish Nazi Party. Plus it's well known that senior members of Sinn Féin are indeed on the IRA army council. Like the fact that Gerry Adams was in the 'RA, there is simply too much evidence for it to be otherwise.

BTW:
Nazi = Socialist + Nationalist = Sinn Féin.

Hitler was a right-wing, authoritarian, like the PDs, but on the right-left scale the PDs would be more like Thatcher - even further right.

Mighty_Mouse

Or didn't you follow Martin Ferris's campaign?

Yes I did.

There are different slants on everything. Martin Ferris was involved in helping communities campaign against drugs infecting their areas, dealing with social issues etc etc .

martin Ferris never beat anyone and neither did the IRA. Sure enough some drug dealer got a kicking but how do you know that wasnt some drug using13 yr olds father, another drug dealer, etc etc

As regards prooving you wild accusation. The Gardai decided against charges, choosing instead harrassment.

Have you some information that the Gardai could use..................ie proove it!

beat a man to death with a sledgehammer,

Again, can you provide and links to information where men have been convicted of membership of the IRA and beating someone to death in the last 10 yrs with a sledgehammer? (dont go quoting Hugh Order or McDowell suspicions)

Because off the top of my head I cant remember such an incident.

Im not saying theres been no punishment beatings. But the figure quoted is overstated.

Again, there is a sectarian police force in Northern Ireland. What are republicans supposed to do only police their own areas. They can hardly call the cops !!!!!!!!

Implement Patten and punishment beatings will stop .