Left wing/ Right wing

rodney.redneck

Has anyone got a handle on how Left wing/ Right wing labels apply to modern society/politics.

As far as I can see the meaning of both have changed over time but I havent pinned down what they actually stand for, or how their core beliefs differ. I know they can be linked to liberal and conservative thinking.

anyone care to enlighten me?

bonkey

This topic has been discussed here at least once, maybe twice in the past year or two.

I'd suggest use of the search-button as a first step

jc

ReefBreak

Every Lefty v Righty thread...18 pages of mud-slinging, before being locked by the mod...but never anything less than hugely entertaining.

rodney.redneck

first time in this forum, i guess i stumbled on a touchy subject.

bonkey

Not touchy...I just think that you'll get the answer you want by searching for the earlier thread....or it will give you a better platform to spring a new discussion from.

It is one of the more interesting topics though .....up there along with "why do so many people insist on using labels but only for those they disagree with"....

jc

thejollyrodger

defining your view point by ideology is daft. Things are never black and white like that and it always leads to confrontation.

Eg the two forms of nationalists in the north of Ireland, Nationalist and Unionist...

Pragmitisim is probably the best idea!

mike65

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
defining your view point by ideology is daft.

Pragmitisim is probably the best idea!

Steady on! Thats revolutionary talk round here!

Mike.

The Corinthian

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

mike65

My politcs seemed to have altered
since the last time I did the test -

Economic Left/Right: -1.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.64

Mike.

Sand

Mine havent really I think,

Economic Left/Right: 3.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05

Neo liberal anarchist - no famous international leaders even in that quarter:(

DadaKopf

Wow, so have I.

Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.77

I was more centrist before.

The Corinthian

To think that someone accused me recently of being a liberal...

Economic Left/Right: 1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.79

thejollyrodger

great link C!

I am
Economic Left/Right: -1.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72.


I didnt realise that ALL bar 2 of the presidental candiates are right wing authoriatians! doh

mike65

I think a few of the question have been changed or added since the last time this came up (before Iraq).

Mike.

BattleBoar

Pretty cool link

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33

PS - I'm not so sure the economic left/right number can be easily translated into Republican/Democrat here in the US. Despite the current democratic presidential field clammoring for curbing freee trade, it was Clinton who got NAFTA through and Bush who instituted protectionist policies (ie.Steel) nessesitating European punitive tariffs until they were removed.

monument

Originally posted by BattleBoar
I'm not so sure the economic left/right number can be easily translated into Republican/Democrat here in the US.

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html


Scary - my Libertarian meter has went up since the last time I done the test. I think one or two of the questions have changed???

Economic Left/Right: -4.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

(Last time I think they were both around -4.50)

I guess that makes me a bleeding-hearted-liberal leftie

BattleBoar

Thanks for that link. I can only wonder when seeing that why is there no candidate who has right economic policies (free trade, etc.), and libertarian ideals? Most of the people I talk to who are around my age would probably be in the same quadrant, but there is no one to represent us other than the libertarian party, who will never win an election. :dunno:

At least if I was in the UK, I'd have the liberal democrats.

shotamoose

I didn't think the Lib Dems were really in favour of free trade? They might say they are from time to time but I never got the impression it's a strongly-held conviction. Don't they also say they're in favour of 'fair trade', which usually makes libertarians froth at the mouth?

Moriarty

Economic Left/Right: -2.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.18

I've moved marginally towards the centre on economics, but otherwise unchanged from last time iirc.

oscarBravo

Economic Left/Right: -2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82

I can't remember what I was before - must make a note of this for future reference. I have a feeling I'm drifting slowly away from the centre.

peckerhead

Jaysus, me too! The older I get, the more wishy-washy liberal-lefty I get...

Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77

Oh sh1t, I'm turning into an ageing hippie!

(Less of the "turning into", I hear my smart-ass kids cry....)

(Ol') peckerhead

mike65

The questions don't help, one regards legalising Cannabis.

I voted Agree (as in agree to legalise) but I did so not cos I'm a pot-head or even think smoking dope is a cool idea. Rather, legalising drugs is a good way to undermine organised crime, which is why I "agreed".


Mike.

DadaKopf

Originally posted by peckerhead
Jaysus, me too! The older I get, the more wishy-washy liberal-lefty I get...

Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77

Oh sh1t, I'm turning into an ageing hippie!

(Less of the "turning into", I hear my smart-ass kids cry....)

(Ol') peckerhead

Why does being a socialist libertarian/anarchist mean you're wishwashy? That's just an insult right-wing authoritarians use.

BattleBoar

Originally posted by shotamoose
I didn't think the Lib Dems were really in favour of free trade? They might say they are from time to time but I never got the impression it's a strongly-held conviction. Don't they also say they're in favour of 'fair trade', which usually makes libertarians froth at the mouth?

You could be right. I admitedly don't know much the british political parties outside of the main two, plus the greens. I only went on the chart provided at the website that put them in the same quadrant as me.

bonkey

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Why does being a socialist libertarian/anarchist mean you're wishwashy? That's just an insult right-wing authoritarians use.

Why do people only ever seem to use labels to insult those who oppose them????

I mean, Occy is the last person I can recall posting here who used a label to firmly classify where he stood himself.....and thats some time ago.

Everyone else seems to use them to b1tch about "those <insert insulting term><insert label>".

Hmmmm.

jc

p.s. Just realised I more or less asked this question earlier in the thread. D'oh.

DadaKopf

I'm too tired and stupid to work out exactly what you mean.

I've just often wondered why people who tend toward left-libertarian are often considered 'wishy-washy'. Is it because those who consider themselves right-libertarians, right-authoritarians and left-authoritarians don't think liberals occupy a clear and defensible political position?

I wasn't accusing anyone of being anything. In fact, I was referring to various discussions on this board, and to political literature I've studied.

To be honest, I think talking about labels is meaningless - it's content that counts.

sceptre

Originally posted by bonkey
Why do people only ever seem to use labels to insult those who oppose them????

What, like Pinko, Fascist, Sticky or West Brit?

I've always assumed that people throw these labels around because they can't (or won't) formulate an argument that makes sense or stands up to any scrutiny. Like little kids throwing stones and insults.

Incidentally:
Economic Left/Right: -4.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.10

Compared to the result I had 18 months ago there's little difference. Yet again the survey fails to adequately reflect my belief in free markets tempered by necessary effective and efficient regulation. It's mistrust that puts me in that bottom-left corner. Funnily enough, it's mistrust that often puts people in the bottom right corner too except they're probably more likely to live on a compound.

Originally posted by me in October 2002
Economic Left/Right: -4.12
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -6.21

There are plenty of these political survey-type things here

Redleslie

Originally posted by DadaKopf
I'm too tired and stupid to work out exactly what you mean.

I've just often wondered why people who tend toward left-libertarian are often considered 'wishy-washy'. Is it because those who consider themselves right-libertarians, right-authoritarians and left-authoritarians don't think liberals occupy a clear and defensible political position?

There was nothing wishy washy about the anarchists/left-libertarians in the Spanish civil war, the Durutti Column and all that.

Originally posted by sceptre
What, like Pinko, Fascist, Sticky or West Brit?

I've always assumed that people throw these labels around because they can't (or won't) formulate an argument that makes sense or stands up to any scrutiny. Like little kids throwing stones and insults.

Surely it's ok to call someone a fascist or a communist or whatever if they actually are fascists or communists or whatever, and would describe themselves as such.

Isn't "little kids" an insult?

2 quotes on this subject here:

Richard Littlejohn: This is typical of the self-regarding, self-appointed metropolitan elite. If you don't agree with them they don't engage you in argument, they throw slogans at you. If you disagree with them on immigration or asylum, you are a Nazi. If you disagree with them on Europe, you are a racist or a xenophobe or a little Englander. That is all they have got - they have only got slogans - they haven't got arguments.

Michel Foucault: I like discussions, and when I am asked questions, I try to answer them. It’s true that I don’t like to get involved in polemics. If I open a book and see that the author is accusing an adversary of “infantile leftism” I shut it again right away. That’s not my way of doing things; I don’t belong to the world of people who do things that way. I insist on this difference as something essential: a whole morality is at stake, the one that concerns the search for truth and the relation to the other.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by DadaKopf
I've just often wondered why people who tend toward left-libertarian are often considered 'wishy-washy'. Is it because those who consider themselves right-libertarians, right-authoritarians and left-authoritarians don't think liberals occupy a clear and defensible political position?

I would have thought the reason rather obvious: Those who would tend toward a left-libertarian view would also tend to adopt a position of laissez faire moral relativism. To a right-authoritarian view, where the moral concepts of right and wrong are more readily defined, this smacks of a case of “spare the rod, spoil the child” - an abdication of one’s moral duty to morally guide Society (left-libertarians, on the other hand would probably think something similar of a right-authoritarian’s failure in their duty to morally free Society). To this view, such a hands off approach is viewed as both irresponsible and a defect of character. The indulgence of tree-hugging, if you will. Hence the derogatory term of wishy-washy.

mike65

It seems I have'nt changes as much as I thought (thanks sceptre for digging the old thread out)

Economic Left/Right -0.75
Authoritian/Libertarian -4.75

In other words I'm a classic liberal.

Frankly the questions were woefully simplistic many required a crude response.

Still think its a crude test...

Mike.

peckerhead

...since I'm the culprit who first used the term —

Actually, I quite like being "wishy-washy". Much better than "black 'n' white", "hardline", "dyed-in-the-wool", etc. It also allows me to change my mind occasionally (i.e. evolve, remain open to new evidence, be willing to continue learning, etc.)

Does that make me a big girls' blouse, too....?


peckerhead

(Now, there's a virile, no-nonsense moniker, if ever there was one....)

P.S. Pace, theCorinthian, but I prefer Redleslie's Foucault quote. Yes, I'm also one of those commie-loving fa**ot interleckshurls....
But happy flagellating, anyway.

P.P.S. May I invite yez all to get on over to http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ ?
Save your souls, and resolve all your politico-philosophical moral dilemmas. Check out the "60-second sermons". Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-haaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww!!!!