Autobahn Deaths Force Germans to Rethink Passion for Speed

TomF

I lifted a few quotes from this article. It concerns a test driver for DaimlerChrysler who came up fast behind a woman while she was trying to overtake a third car (she was doing 95 at the time), flashed his Mercedes Benz CL600 headlights at her to get the h**l out of his way, she did, he raced past, then she lost control, went off the road, hit trees and she and her 2 year old daughter were killed. I suppose in the logic expressed at the end of the quotes, it was simply a matter of survival of the fittest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A13539-2004Feb27?language=printer

"Any change would target an enduring figure in contemporary German life known as the 'autobahn racer.' In the view of critics, the racer is almost always male and middle-aged, and at the wheel of a high-performance car, he becomes a sort of tailgate terrorist, appearing from nowhere behind slower vehicles, honking his horn, flashing his headlights to demand that the way be cleared for him.

'I hate it when people tailgate,' said Hartmut Fritz, 49, out walking his dog on a Berlin street this week. 'I cannot do that to others -- it's gruesome. It's like you are forcing someone to do something. He favors speed limits, though by American standards, high ones, about 85 mph. 'There is just no need' to go faster, he said.

But Wolf Schilahb, 48, said he opposed limits. He routinely travels at a bit over 100 mph -- 'as long as no one is in my way,' he said, as he bought cigarettes at a Berlin kiosk, keys to his Mazda in hand. 'People need to be able to make these decisions individually. What needs to change is the attitude of many people.'

Schilahb called the situation on the highways 'a mirror image of what is going on in society. The slower people get pushed aside by the faster, more powerful people with stronger elbows.' "

Tommy Vercetti

I read about that in Autocar, he got 18 months in the slammer I think. The whole issue about the speed limits comes up regularly there, they usually settle it by claiming that it encourages engineering excellence, moments after a cerain Mr. Porsche slips an envelope full of notes into the politician's pocket.

unkel

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
after a cerain Mr. Porsche slips an envelope full of notes into the politician's pocket.

Eh, it's not Ireland

seamus

Obviously there's not enough of the case described to get an accurate picture of what actually happened, but from the description given, it would seem to me that legally it was she who messed up and killed herself and her child.

But I'm guessing from the sentence that he was tailgating her and generally being pushy about getting her to move aside (the article seems to suggest that he drove up behind her, flashed once, she got 'spooked' and ****ed up, which leaves him in the clear IMO), which does give him some liability, but certainly not manslaughter.

luckat

An awful lot of people turn into tantrum-throwing infants as soon as they get into their cars. This kind of bullying - tailgating and flashing - is just not acceptable.

mike65

Bad behaviour is no reason to change the Autobahn.
After all imagine if that logic were applied to Irish roads...

Mike.

Morpheus

if im doing the speed limit in the fast lane in ireland and some muppet flashes and honks me...

hed better be prepared to stay behind me all the way, and watch in amazement as islow down and perfectly cruise at .5 a mile an hour faster than the slow lane traffic, then accelerate to the speed limit while remaining in the outside lane just to piss HIM off... i hate tailgaters and light flashers, if your doing over the limit, then f*ck off.

Note: this is not my usual driving tactic, and not something ive personally experienced as yet i just cant stand people who carry on like this, its law breaking and dangerous and DOES force people to react unexpectedly because theyve never experienced it before, after all, tailgating or tailgated... its not something you practice in your driving test now is it?

unkel

Originally posted by Morphéus
if im doing the speed limit in the fast lane in ireland and some muppet flashes and honks me...

hed better be prepared to stay behind me all the way, and watch in amazement as islow down and perfectly cruise at .5 a mile an hour faster than the slow lane traffic, then accelerate to the speed limit while remaining in the outside lane just to piss HIM off...

That is appalling behaviour and imho worse than the flasher / tailgater :mad:

If you drive appropriately (i.e. moving to the slower lane into a suitable gap when you see somebody approaching you) you will very rarely be flashed / tailgated. I guess you've never driven on the continent, have you?

unkel

edit

Saruman

Originally posted by luckat
An awful lot of people turn into tantrum-throwing infants as soon as they get into their cars. This kind of bullying - tailgating and flashing - is just not acceptable.

In irish cases though, if someone is driving in the overtaking lane and staying there at 40 - 50 mph while there is NOTHING in front of him and so holding up traffic all the way back, is this acceptable or should he be flashed to move out of the way as soon as they finish.. eh.. overtaking whoever they are supposed to be overtaking? I mean there must be something that can be done. I notice on Irish roads, especially the M50 that half the time the "normal" lane moves faster because the overtaking lane is full of retards crawling along and not moving out of the way and also full of break tapping idiots who dont realise they are causing a massive problem every time they tap their breaks, which filters down the string of traffic until at some point traffic is stopped!!

seamus

Originally posted by Saruman
In irish cases though, if someone is driving in the overtaking lane and staying there at 40 - 50 mph while there is NOTHING in front of him and so holding up traffic all the way back, is this acceptable or should he be flashed to move out of the way as soon as they finish.. eh.. overtaking whoever they are supposed to be overtaking? I mean there must be something that can be done. I notice on Irish roads, especially the M50 that half the time the "normal" lane moves faster because the overtaking lane is full of retards crawling along and not moving out of the way and also full of break tapping idiots who dont realise they are causing a massive problem every time they tap their breaks, which filters down the string of traffic until at some point traffic is stopped!!

There's a fine line between a gentle reminder and abusiveness though.
I have no problem flashing anyone holding up the outside lane (regardless of their speed), and would have no problem with someone doing the same to me. But tailgating and abusiveness (i.e. constantly flashing your lights, beeping incessantly etc) is never warranted, particularly if the traffic is heavy. It's one thing to give a gentle nudge and "move into the other lane please", but attempting to force someone into the other lane, particularly when it's perfectly obvious that there's not much room to move into the next lane, is the domain of scumbags.

Victor

When the crash occurred, Fischer was traveling an unregulated stretch of road between the cities of Esslingen and Papenberg. The Kia was moving fast, too, according to testimony in the trial. It had been pressed into its own upper limits, about 95 mph, as it raced down the left lane, designated for higher-speed traffic, in an attempt to pass another car.

If she was doing 95mph, its not like she was dawdling in the over-taking lane. If he couldn't adjust his own speed, to take account of other traffic, he **was** driving dangerously. What would he have done if there were cars in front of her that he couldn't see?

It's one thing to put on/off you headlights every 5-10 seconds to alert someone to your presence, another to flash them into distraction.

Fischer did not stop after the Kia spun off the road, but he later aroused suspicion by making inquiries about what had happened to it.

If he didn't do any wrong, why would he make enquiries later?

unkel

Very few people would disagree with you on that one Victor

Ba$tard

OK.....lets get something very very straight here.


What do you do in the overtaking lane?
Overtake
(Very good children)

When should you only be in the overtaking lane?
When you are overtaking
(Very good children)

If you happy to find yourself in the overtaking lane going 60mph and not overtaking what do you do REGARDLESS of a car being behind you or not?
Move into the normal(not slow) lane
(Very good children)

Can you block someone from going faster than you and the speed limit?
No miss, it is illegal and accountable if you
attempt to block any other driver on a public road.
They could also have a genuine reason for travelling
at a higher and the possiblity exists that they have an
emergency situation.
(Very good children)


What should you do if someone is hogging the overtaking lane with complete disregard to the rules of the road?
RPG them, miss.
(Very good children)


If kids can understand a simple rule of the road, why can't 'grown ups' ?
I'm deadly serious...

J.

Victor

Originally posted by Ba$tard
OK.....lets get something very very straight here.

And how is this is relevant to the discussion at hand?

Ba$tard

While on the subject of .... Overtaking and honking, etc from the aforementioned atricle.

Victor

Originally posted by Ba$tard
While on the subject of .... Overtaking and honking, etc from the aforementioned atricle.

Are you suggesting that the deceased driver was hogging the overtaking lane?

BrianD3

My opinion on this is: anyone who ventures into the overtaking lane of an unrestricted autobahn should EXPECT vehicles travelling at enormous speed to come up behind them. They should be prepared for it, they should be able to anticipate it and they should be able to react in an appropriate manner when it happens.

It appears that the woman herself was travelling at 95 mph - not a slow speed at all. In my opinion she had no business doing that speed or being in the overtaking lane or even being on the autobahn at all unless she was 100% in control of her vehicle. Plus she should have been aware of the presence of other vehicles and should have been able to deal with annoyances such as aggressive tailgating by other motorists.

Remember that we're talking about Germany here. Drivers go through stringent driver training and testing. She should have been well able to handle the situation as she would have received adequate training.

Unless the Mercedes actually collided with her car causing her to lose control - now that's a completely different situation. I have heard reports that there was contact between the cars with the Merc driver actually rammed her car out of the way causing the crash. Other reports say that she crashed because she felt intimidated and got spooked or distracted or whatever. I think there is a very important distinction between the two of these.

BrianD3

Ba$tard

Victor,

Not at all!!!
I said honking, not hogging...by honking, I mean lights, horn, gestures...

I do agree with the statement made that take a person and put them behind a wheel and they do definately change....mostly for the worst, me included

sceptre

Originally posted by Ba$tard
RPG them, miss.

I know I'm getting older every day but I can't decipher that bit. Little help please?:)

Victor

Originally posted by sceptre
I know I'm getting older every day but I can't decipher that bit. Little help please?:)

http://www.g2mil.com/RPG.htm

xm15e3

Originally posted by luckat
An awful lot of people turn into tantrum-throwing infants as soon as they get into their cars. This kind of bullying - tailgating and flashing - is just not acceptable.

Correct me If I'm wrong, but isn't flashing German (and Italian) driving etiquette? Not so much an act of aggression, simply a request to yield the lane. This is done in the US, and is not necessarily aggressive unless fallowed by the finger.

unkel

Originally posted by xm15e3
Correct me If I'm wrong, but isn't flashing German (and Italian) driving etiquette? Not so much an act of aggression, simply a request to yield the lane.

Very much so but to different degrees. In Germany it is indeed just requesting to yield, usually done from a long distance giving the (obviously pretty ignorant and incompetent) overtaker the chance to comfortably move back into the slower lane. If this isn't working out, the German driver would typically gently brake and keep a safe distance until the slower car has cleared the lane

In Italy the flashing is done much later and no consideration is shown to the overtaking car. Instead of braking and keeping a safe distance, the fast car is tailgating and might even use the horn and / or repeated more agressive flashing

Just my experience and have done a good few miles in both countries. (as an aside in my experience driving in France seems to be somewhere between Germany and Italy in motorway behaviour)

My opinion is that if the average EU driver was like the average German driver, we would all be driving many mph faster than we are now with many many thousands of people less killed on the roads.....

When will the government here introduce a system that only people that can actually drive are allowed to hit the road as opposed to people that have just gone through the administrative process of sending for a form stating that they are a (learner) driver?

sceptre

Originally posted by Victor
http://www.g2mil.com/RPG.htm

Thanks - rang a bell but I was thinking about things with wheels

tunney

if im doing the speed limit in the fast lane in ireland and some muppet flashes and honks me...

Then perhaps you should pull into the slow lane and allow them to overtake.
I really hate people who think "I'm doing the speed limit and I'm staying in the fast lane regardless". Its NOT a fast lane, its an OVERTAKING lane, if you are not overtaking you shouldn't be in it.

Morpheus

And I dislike w*ankers breaking the speed limit.

Which is why ill be calling the cops with your number plate if you go by me much faster than 70mph.

Nuttzz

While I dont condone speeding, I hate the "holier than thou" attitude. If travelling on the M7 and your tolling along at 70 in the inside lane and someone goes past you in the overtaking lane does that mean that we all reach for the phone to dial the traffic watch service?

Most (if not all) of us have broken the speed limit at some stage on the motorway, save the traffic watch calls for the ba$tards who speed past schools.

AthAnRi

My opinion is that if the average EU driver was like the average German driver, we would all be driving many mph faster than we are now with many many thousands of people less killed on the roads.....

Have you driven in Ireland Lately mate? Even if everone in Ireland is as Good a driver as Michael Schumacher and the speed limit is raised lets say to 80mph then I'd imagine that the fatalty rate on Irish roads would increase.

The roads are a disgrace and until such time as they are widened and improved then It is a good thing to have the limit as low as it is.

tunney

Which is why ill be calling the cops with your number plate if you go by me much faster than 70mph.

By all means do. But as long as you do so from the comfort of the slow lane where you should be since you aren't overtaking.

seamus

Originally posted by Morphéus
And I dislike w*ankers breaking the speed limit.

Which is why ill be calling the cops with your number plate if you go by me much faster than 70mph.

Regardless. "I'm doing the speed limit" is no excuse for staying in the fast lane.
By all means, report people who overtake you when you're doing 70mph, but please, nobody should ever maliciously prevent someone from overtaking them, for any reason. I can't stress that enough.

What's the procedure if you report someone for speeding on the traffic watch? Surely all they can do is make a note of your plate and hope to capture you. There is no way in hell a conviction could be secured based on eyewitness accounts of another driver, that is, a) You have no way of measuring the driver's actual speed, so no recording of breaking the limit, no conviction, and b) You have no proof that your speedo is properly calibrated at the time.

*On point a - *If* you had somebody else filming him overtaking you, and your speedo clearly showing 70mph, then *maybe* you could get it. A Japanese(?) man was convicted I remember after he circulated a video of himself driving at 200Km/h+, clearly showing the speedo.

ballooba

Originally posted by Morphéus
hed better be prepared to stay behind me all the way, and watch in amazement as islow down and perfectly cruise at .5 a mile an hour faster than the slow lane traffic, then accelerate to the speed limit while remaining in the outside lane just to piss HIM off...

That kind of behaviour is just as dangerous.

The fast lane is for overtaking only. Unless you are overtaking then you shouldn't be in it.

Kali

Originally posted by Morphéus
And I dislike w*ankers breaking the speed limit.

Which is why ill be calling the cops with your number plate if you go by me much faster than 70mph.

And I'll do likewise if i see you going over 30 in a residential area... theres absolutely no difference between the ignorance you are showing and those of tailgaters... simple fact is more accidents take place in residential and country roads than on motorways... but thats another debate.

Back on subject.. aren't speedlimits on the Autobahns actually 150mph (I know the vast majority of German cars are limited to 155) as opposed to the "no speed limits" or is the latter right? .. perhaps reducing that slightly would serve better as there are very few cars capable of travelling safely (controllable & stable) at those sort of speeds.. obviously her Kia wasn't anyway (changing lanes quickly at 95mph in a budget car with , i presume, cheap tyres doesn't bear thinking about).

Morpheus

first off,
ok,
i have never done what i said above, and to be honest, driving for me is stressful enough without having to carry on like that, i just changed cars last week and after a roadtrip to Galway this weekend, i saw enough w*nkers to make me think twice about such a move, they wouldnt care, theyd just mow you out of the overtaking lane anyway.

I retract my statement about what i would do as ive never done it and know i wouldnt have the lack of braincells required for such a manouever, unlike other fools driving at law breaking speeds in this country.

Back on subject.. aren't speedlimits on the Autobahns actually 150mph (I know the vast majority of German cars are limited to 155) as opposed to the "no speed limits" or is the latter right? .. perhaps reducing that slightly would serve better as there are very few cars capable of travelling safely (controllable & stable) at those sort of speeds..

:rolleyes:
you honestly think that your a average joe shmo can travel at 150 mph safely simply because his (fit any good car make with decent performance in here) can go that fast and has the right tyres? what is this world coming to? maybe your above average... you think that humans reaction times decrease with speed limits? or that maybe they can train themselves to react quicker?? unless your superman the laws of physics and biochemistry act against you.

This goes out to all you who crave high speed in ireland...

there is no way on earth that anyone should be let NEAR a car with the intention of travelling at 150 mph on a public road REGARDLESS, the germans are nuts for ever allowing this to begin with, they should in the very least, completely seperate lanes for high speed travellers and normal (sane) speed travellers with huge concrete barriers.

For example, take a person who has just passed their test, taking their small car on its first trip down the normal speed lane of the autobahn, now roaring up at 100- 150 mph comes this big silver cruise missile, the sheer terror the small car driver could go through as this bullet train whips by, might be enough to elicit a momentary lapse of concentration and a lifetime enduring paralysis so some ubergeek schumakker wannabe in his big fast car can get all hot in his Y-Fronts over the roar from his engine.

Limits are there for a reason, like it or not, stick to them or f*ck off and die in Germany.

Honestly if you passed me by doing 80 or 90 and wrapped your car around a signpost on a bend you took too fast, i would smile knowngly, wag my finger, say "i told you so" and probably think twice about phoning an ambulance for your sorry arse, after all the worlds a much safer place without retarded f*ckheads thinking the irish motorway is brands hatch.

Rest assured tho, the sensible part of me that has retracted my statement above would dial the cops, file a complaint and then add, oh yeah, hes also just crashed, can i have an ambulance please?:mad:

tunney

But the German method of testing is nothing like ours. You won't get

a person who has just passed their test, taking their small car on its first trip down the normal speed lane of the autobahn

in the same sense as we would here in ireland. In germany they actually have to have some level of competency before they are given their full license.

Imposter

Originally posted by tunney
But the German method of testing is nothing like ours. You won't get in the same sense as we would here in ireland. In germany they actually have to have some level of competency before they are given their full license.

Assuming it is similar to how it is here in Austria, which these things usually are, then not as much as you'd think. Before doing your test there is always someone in the car with you. Once you get your licence that isn't the case, and for me anyway that is when I really learned to drive. Being alone in the car is quite daunting initially and you are allowed on the autobahn, so the situation above could exist. I did my test and got my licence without driving on an autobahn (during the test although I could of had to). My instructor did bring me on an autobahn twice (I think) where he never let me go faster than 120kmh (130 is the limit here). That is very fast to be travelling when you basically have done about 15 hours driving. After my test I was allowed to drive there on my own (after about 18 hours driving).

Kali

Originally posted by Morphéus
:rolleyes:
you honestly think that your a average joe shmo can travel at 150 mph safely simply because his (fit any good car make with decent performance in here) can go that fast and has the right tyres? what is this world coming to? maybe your above average... you think that humans reaction times decrease with speed limits? or that maybe they can train themselves to react quicker?? unless your superman the laws of physics and biochemistry act against you.

Of course I don't.. please point out where I said anything about the driver being capable? I said the car.. that in no way implies any super reaction times... but I'd rather be in a car that can safely brake at high speeds than one that can't... (I'd warrant the majority of high performance German cars could brake from 100-0mph in less than 5 seconds without locking up).. plus the amount of grip a car generates and road conditions play a big part as well, doing 95mph in a straight line on a motorway in any sort of Kia is without a doubt pushing the limits of the car... 95mph in a CL600 isn't. This is completly regardless of driver "ability"... and briefly on your last point: yes I do believe people can train themselves to react quicker with the vehicle and its surroundings. Driver awareness isn't some innate sense we are born with.. it comes from experience and that alone. Anyone who jumps in a car and starts pushing it and their own reactions to the limit is a danger to themself and other road users.

Honestly if you passed me by doing 80 or 90 and wrapped your car around a signpost on a bend you took too fast, i would smile knowngly, wag my finger, say "i told you so" and probably think twice about phoning an ambulance for your sorry arse, after all the worlds a much safer place without retarded f*ckheads thinking the irish motorway is brands hatch.

I've never seen a bend on an Irish motorway... I've seen plenty of people on the phone though

Morpheus

:rolleyes: lol

of course, it goes without saying, i would pull over, switch off the engine, get out of the car and THEN phone.:o

The Clown Man

Can I just point out that the rules of the road as per the little handbook states that if you are in the fast lane you always pull over to FASTER traffic. This purposely leaves out a limit on "faster traffic".

The proof of that is the way it is handled by a Judge.

If you are the cause of an accident that happened because you were doing 70 mph and you didnt think it reasonable to let the speeding guy past, YOU are the reason behind the accident. Now you can rarely be charged with a crime but the Judge will almost always throw out the case and give the slow offender a right verbal slap on the wrist.

Reason? : That Gardaí are there to enforce the law. It is neither your duty nor your place to try to enforce it at the risk of others. If you put a criminal at risk then you are the criminal. So very seriously; don't ever presume to think that you are in the position to enforce the law when you are in your car. You will be the one most likely to pick up the sentence.

Do the right fúckin thing and get the hell out of the way so as not to be even NEAR an accident.

Good night.

ToxicPaddy

I was driving on the M9 a few months ago, last November I think about 8.00pm and
there was a line of traffic in the left hand lane going about 60mph or so. It was few
miles before the turnoff for Newbridge so I assume most didnt want to over take the
driver holding them up as they would be turning off anyway.

As I came upon them I was travelling about 70mph I checked my mirror and no one
was in the right hand lane so I pulled out to over take the line of cars, about 30 or
so.. in the distance I could see a car coming at speed and I was doing my 70mph in
the right lane over taking the cars... and about half way through the line of cars in
the left hand lane, the car behind me comes right up behind me and starts flashing
his lights at me to move over..

But where the hell was I to go? I was doing the legal limit, 70mph, overtaking a line
of cars doing about 60mph and there were no gaps in that lane for me to pull into..

What the hell did this guy expect me to do?

He continued to flash his lights at me.. and drive so close to me that I could barely see the top of his lights at the front of the car... I decided I had enuff of this assh*le so I sat on the brakes and basically scared the sh*te outta him.. the nose of his car dived and he then stayed well behind me until I had passed the line of traffic.. when I pulled in and he took off like the clappers barely giving me a second glance..

Afterwards I kind of regretted doing what I had done as it would have caused an accident but hopefully it will make him think twice about flashing someone in the future in this situation and someone who may panick like that woman in the Kia and
cause a serious accident..

Just wondering what would you guys have done in this situation?

Tox

seamus

Originally posted by ToxicPaddy
...

He was being an asshole tbh. You quite rightly determined that you had enough space to overtake. Just like as if it was a single lane road, he must give way to, and be observant for, drivers ahead in the line of traffic who may pull out to overtake. If you had no opportunity to pull in, he was just being a wanker. There's no cause for that kind of behaviour under any circumstances. Personally, I would have given the fingers to him out my window. Braking like that is definitely not the right thing to do (however tempting it is ).

Turner

Tbh he should have flashed you from a distance to let you know he is travelling at speed and to tell you to make way.

padraigmyers

There is always the posibility that the guy may have had an emergency. He may have had a kid in the back seat that he was rushing to hospital or something. I'm not saying thats what he was doing, he probably was just some asshole, but just for those people who think its a good idea to intentionally slow down somebody because they are breaking the speed limit, you never know when someone may actually have a good reason.

seamus

Originally posted by padraigmyers
There is always the posibility that the guy may have had an emergency. He may have had a kid in the back seat that he was rushing to hospital or something. I'm not saying thats what he was doing, he probably was just some asshole, but just for those people who think its a good idea to intentionally slow down somebody because they are breaking the speed limit, you never know when someone may actually have a good reason.

a) If you have an emergency that requires speedy going to a hospital, ring an ambulance
b) If you really, really don't want to wait, ring 999 anyway, and tell them you're driving uberfast in direction x, along route y. They can either meet you along the way, to take the emergency off your hands or escort you.

That he may have an emergency is the last thing that should be assumed imo. There is obviously a difference between intentionally holding someone up, and overtaking a little slower than another person would like.

padraigmyers

Well, my brother got in a serious medical emergency about 2 years ago. He dosn't live in a city so an ambulance was not an option. My dad had to drive him to the hostital in Cork and drove most of the way above 100mph (it was about 3 in the morning so the roads were fairly clear). He would have died if it had taken any longer, no-one had to foresight to ring for a garda escort, but now that you mention it that would have been a good idea, I'll keep it in mind next time. Ever since then I try not to make asumptions about a driver behind me that is VERY insistent on getting past, espically if their hazzard lights etc are on.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentitive here, just offering another point of view.

seamus

Originally posted by padraigmyers
Ever since then I try not to make asumptions about a driver behind me that is VERY insistent on getting past, espically if their hazzard lights etc are on.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentitive here, just offering another point of view.

Absolutely. There are always little things which shape our attitude. I was front seat passenger in an accident many many years before I started driving, where a car pulled across us at a junction (the embankment in Tallaght, lethal junction even now after being fixed), and we were going relatively fast. Even to this day, I tend to slow down excessively when approaching a junction where there's traffic waiting to cross.

tunney

I decided I had enuff of this assh*le so I sat on the brakes and basically scared the sh*te outta him

I used to do that to once. Until I did it to a branch car. Happened 4 years ago. haven't done it once since.

unkel

Know exactly where you mean Tox, have been in that situation before overtaking that line of traffic on that road. You did right by not speeding up and just wait for the earliest safe opportunity to move into the slow lane. That is all that can be reasonably expected of you. It is beyond me how some overtakers cannot appreciate this

The guy was a wanker. I'm glad you won't be doing that braking job again though. That was very dangerous and I doubt if a wanker like that will learn his lesson

BrianD3

But where the hell was I to go? I was doing the legal limit, 70mph, overtaking a line of cars doing about 60mph and there were no gaps in that lane for me to pull into..What the hell did this guy expect me to do?

If the clueless muppets toddling along at 60 in the left hand lane had been leaving sufficient gap for an overtaking vehicle to move into, then the situation would never have occured. The guy behind was an impatient, inconsiderate asshole but the idiots in the left hand lane were just as bad.

I bet if you had tried to move into a small gap in the line of cars the car that you were moving in front of would have a) flashed you for having the audacity to overtake and move in front of him b) speeded up to decrease the gap between his vehicle and the vehicle in front, blocking you completely.

I sometimes think that there is an overemphasis on speeding when road safety is being discussed in this country. I have a strong feeling that many drivers out there have an attitude of "I'm all right jack" once they don't exceed the speed limit. When in fact some of the most appalling driving I have seen has been by vehicles travelling well below the speed limit.

Driver education and training are the key to road safety IMO. Handing out 2 penalty points to people doing 3 mph over the speed limit is all very well, but it doesn't solve many of the road safety problems we have in this country.

BrianD3

padraigmyers

Originally posted by BrianD3
I sometimes think that there is an overemphasis on speeding when road safety is being discussed in this country. I have a strong feeling that many drivers out have an attitude of "I'm all right jack" once they don't exceed the speed limit. When in fact some of the most appalling driving I have seen has been by vehicles travelling well below the speed limit.

Driver education and training are the key to road safety IMO. Handing out 2 penalty points to people doing 3 mph over the speed limit is all very well, but it doesn't solve many of the road safety problems we have in this country.

Absolutly agree, speeding is just being used as a scapegoat.

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
I sometimes think that there is an overemphasis on speeding when road safety is being discussed in this country.

Strongly agree with everything in your post BrianD3 and also with The Clown Man's post. I've no doubt that fatalities per billion kilometers on the German autobahn are lower than here even though there are many people driving over 100mph and the rest over there

The safer record might well say more about the attitude, ability, and experience of people overtaken by those fast drivers, than about the fast drivers themselves. There is of course only one Michael Schumacher and even he gets involved in accidents