quality of hand?

Obscure

I was in Fitz two weeks ago and this hand still bugs me!

This was before the freeze-out period and so the question is "was i playing too tight for the stage of the tourament?".

I got Jack Queen of hearts in the pocket. Now that gives me possible straight and flush and one high card (Queen) and one middle card (Jack). People came out betting and you could tell it was going to be expensive, expensive enough for me to be all in. The betting scared me off and i folded.

What happened after i folded is sort of irrelevant (as it happens a queen came on the flop).

Should i have went all in with JQ hearts? There were a few hands that were better such as KK, AA, AK, AQ....
but on the other hand i had possible straight and flush cards.

So should i have folded? Not a straight forward question but what would other players have done?

Ob'

henbane

QJ suited can be beaten by a lot of other hands. If someone else at the table is representing something better and they are not in the habit of firing plenty of chips in pre-flop without the possibility of a good hand then you had to fold. If they have been seen to be over-betting average hands then it might have been worth a call. I'd fold it after a big raise from a decent player came in but play it on a relatively cheap flop.

A lot of people play very loose in the fitz on thursday pre-freezeout in the hope of making some decent scores with average cards and building a respectable stack for the rest of the night.

Can you remember what the winning hand was in the end?

Don't be blinded by straight/flush draws preflop as they don't carry through as often as you would like them to. Good cards are made better by these possibilities but bad cards are still bad cards whether you have these draws.

Would your all-in have been less than a buy-in or a significant amount of chips?

Obscure

The players werent newbies (like myself) and knew what they were up to, so i guessed that they were representing good hands. I had about 1000 chips so it was a little more than a buy-in.

Right after i folded i felt that i was playing too tight for that stage of the night! On one side i didnt want to chase hands but on the other if i wanted to get a stack together then i needed to play looser.

Didnt get to see the winning hand as people folded after flop (remember thinking that winning hand was bluffing). Queen and two minor cards came on the flop, so i would have made top pair.

I knew that the hand wasnt that strong BUT it looked so good!!!!!

DeVore

It depends on a lot of things, I'm probably a loosish player particularly pre-freeze out and early on in the night.

QJ suited is a tricky hand to play. You need to think about a few more things then you might have considered.

You have shag all Strength compared to what you can expect to be up against. With several callers and raisers you are looking at pairs, possibly high pairs.

You dont have too many weaknesses as you have a good kicker if you need one.

Your opportunities are very good, you have flush and straight draws, possibly high pair (though you have to consider the serious possibility of someone having Aces or at least an ace/king or both preflop. AQ is bad news too.

Threats are numerous, there are a ton of hands above you. You are not going to win this without a chunk of luck on the flop. You feel you are going to be pot-committed (imho a stupid term anyway) so you are staking a tenner on this hand (I presume you dont have more chips then the buy in amount, otherwise I'd chuck this hand down and wait for something bigger.

In the end of the day its a marginal hand that I would play in late position with a couple of callers. Any action and I would tend to chuck it away... last thing I want to be is 3rd in a 2 horse race with one winner.

DeV.

Lafortezza

Say you had had 1000 chips, someone bet 400 preflop. You were tempted with QJ suited.
What would you have done if you had had QJ unsuited, diamonds and clubs say, its certainly not as pretty as QJ hearts, and you'd have to fold it immediately, especially if the firster person raising got called by a couple of people.

If theres ever 2 or 3 people in the game preflop for a very respectable raise you have to put them on AA down to JJ or AK or AQ, possibly suited, all of which are much better than your QJ suited or not.

All depends on your situation though, if all those players had AK or AA or similar then they would have been drawing nearly dead on improving their hands, and you might have had a chance to improve yours and win the pot.

It all depends on how willing you are to spend that extra tenner for a rebuy.

Spiritus

last thing I want to be is 3rd in a 2 horse race with one winner.

Unless you river them eh Dev

Davey Devil

If you like your money you will chuck that hand to any raise.
Nice hand to see a cheap flop though.

mewso

In normal play folding that hand is the right move. The only problem with rebuy periods is that even good players may not be playing better hands than you. I think in a rebuy to build up chips you need to take some chances and be prepared to rebuy if necessary. Once you know you're going to have to take chances then take the chance when the pot is large. If someone raises a bet to 400 and you have 1000 then I'd be looking to see how many callers there are. This is where late position is great. If you get 5 callers and it comes around to you then I would seriously consider going all-in and maybe ending up one on one. Nice pot if you win it and if you lose it for a tenner you are back to 1000.
I would agree, though, that QJs is not necessarily the hand to take the chance on but if you have 3000 in a pot you may take the view that it's the best chance you'll get. i.e. you get AK/AA next hand, make a bet and everyone folds. You've made nothing from it.

DeVore

Originally posted by Spiritus
last thing I want to be is 3rd in a 2 horse race with one winner.

Unless you river them eh Dev

Jeeez... not going to be let forget that for a while am I! lol...


DeV.

Spiritus

Well if ur gonna outdraw people then may as well make it good.

ykt0di9url7bc3

QJ of hearts is a risk any day of the week, it depends on the opponents whether you can take it all the way....

DeVore

If you think that was bad Spiritus, you should have seen the game in Pudding's house playing against Alex from Emuse. He had me cold with KK to my JJ. I was first to bet and went all-in which he followed.

When the smoked cleared I needed a queen on the river for a straight to beat his 3 kings, which I got.... it can be the cruelest of games sometimes.

DeV.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by DeVore
If you think that was bad Spiritus, you should have seen the game in Pudding's house playing against Alex from Emuse. He had me cold with KK to my JJ. I was first to bet and went all-in which he followed.

When the smoked cleared I needed a queen on the river for a straight to beat his 3 kings, which I got.... it can be the cruelest of games sometimes.

DeV.

Thats the way poker goes alright. At least when I put you out on saturday night I had teh decency to do it on a 1/12 chance (over two hands)!
I liked those odds, knew I could out-draw you

DeVore

I couldnt believe that Luke, I was 1:3 odds on when we revealed the first hand and then 1:4 for the second hand. Whats worse is you didnt believe me until we went through the outs and the probabilities! All that work, all that ducking and diving and two hands in a row I get gutshot. Harsh man, harsh


DeV.

Lafortezza

The cards knew who deserved the money Dev

DeVore

Oh...OoooH! You bad *bad* man.

<kurgan> Another time highlander! </Kurgan>

DeV.

Krusty_Clown

Has anyone been watching the 'showdown at the sands' series which is airing on Challenge TV at the moment?

A very interesting hand on Tuesday night.. Phil Helmuth was holding something like K3o and playing against one other player (one of the old Poker hands), who held something weaker, but was bluffing all the way..

Hellmuth picked up a K on the flop(to make a pair), and correctly identified the other geezer as bluffing his hand (was betting into Hellmuth).

At the end of the hand, old geezer showed his weak hand, Hellmuth revealed his K (to make a pair), and the old geezer was getting ready for the next hand, when someone pointed out that he had a flush.

Just goes to show it can happen at all levels of the game.. Hellmuth was very upset, as he had correctly identified that the codger was bluffing, so he was betting big... only to lose all his bets in the end.. Serves him right anyway.. Narky git..