Rules of the road

laoisfan

Hi

Just really want to get peoples opinions!!

I was driving down to Cork on Saturday. After Cashel or Cahir, probably closer to Michelstown, they have these slow lanes. Anyway, I stayed in the fast lane (not really a fast lane, but doing the speed limit 60mph) and was overtaking cars which were in the slow lane (hmmm doing say 50-55mph).

One or two drivers drove right up behind me and flashed and beeped me out of it!! Now, to the best of my knowledge, I was in the right? (Please feel free to correct me on this). I was after all doing the speed limit?

Any opinions on this ?

BTW - had a great time in Cork , wonderful place, went to college there - class!!

-laoisfan

Imposter

It's an overtaking lane. If you were overtaking you were in the right. If you weren't you were in the wrong. If you were overtaking at 30mph you'd still be in the right (unless there's a sign before the road setting a minimum limit on the lane, but I doubt there is).

laoisfan

Hi

Thanks for that!! I was overtaking everytime. Ah well, c'est la vie!!

-laoisfan

Borzoi

Originally posted by laoisfan


One or two drivers drove right up behind me and flashed and beeped me out of it!! Now, to the best of my knowledge, I was in the right? (Please feel free to correct me on this). I was after all doing the speed limit?

Yes you were in the right, nevertheless if you had an opportunity to let the assholes behind you go you should have, if only for your own safety.

Andrew Duffy

Those climbing lanes are specifically marked "slow" and "fast", so the normal dual carriageway rules may not apply. For example, if the road markings allow it, you can legally overtake someone in the fast lane by using the opposite side of the road.

laoisfan

thanks for the replies on this. well it seemed i was in the right but i think in future i will just go in the slow lane just to avoid the hassle.

-laoisfan

BrianD

On a road with two lanes you should always drive on the left unless overtaking. The extra lane is an 'overtaking lane' and not a 'fast lane'!

Genghis

Originally posted by BrianD
On a road with two lanes you should always drive on the left unless overtaking. The extra lane is an 'overtaking lane' and not a 'fast lane'!

Ah yes, indeed, Brian, perhaps the greatest of all unknown rules of the Irish road. I don't know how often I come across someone moving in to the overtaking lane at the start of a motorway, and sitting there for miles on end. I have a friend who actually does this as a means of speed control - join motorway, move in to overtaking lane, slap her in to cruise control at 70mph, and then tut-tut at illegal speeding drivers who (after several frustrating miles stuck up his arse) undertake him.

I know he is technically right, but his illegal behaviour is arguably more dangerous than theirs.

silverside

but laoisfan was overtaking (albeit not very rapidly!)

seamus

Originally posted by Genghis
I know he is technically right, but his illegal behaviour is arguably more dangerous than theirs.

He's in the wrong I'm afraid. If he's not overtaking, he should move to the left hand lane. Besides, traffic control or discipline of other road users is not his business and in fact makes him a danger to other road users.
I'd slap him around the head and give him a 6 month ban.
Tell him to cop the f*ck on.

Genghis

Originally posted by seamus
He's in the wrong I'm afraid. If he's not overtaking, he should move to the left hand lane. Besides, traffic control or discipline of other road users is not his business and in fact makes him a danger to other road users.
I'd slap him around the head and give him a 6 month ban.
Tell him to cop the f*ck on.

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that his behaviour is in anyway right (I actually did say thathe was behaving illegally), what I meant was that he is 'technically right' about the other drivers - undertaking is illegal, as is exceeding 70mph to do so.

laoisfan

hi

laoisfan was actually overtaking in the fast (or overtaking lane as some put it) AND was doing so at 60mph while others in the slow or left lane were doing 50-55mph. as soon as i could i indicated and made my way into the left lane.

I do not know where in the rules of the road where it permits you to break the speed limit while overtaking?

why do people drive up your rear end and all and give you glares when you are driving at the actual permitted speed limit for the area in question?

--laoisfan

seamus

Originally posted by Genghis
'technically right' about the other drivers - undertaking is illegal, as is exceeding 70mph to do so.

Very 'technically' . See below

Originally posted by laoisfan
hi

laoisfan was actually overtaking in the fast (or overtaking lane as some put it) AND was doing so at 60mph while others in the slow or left lane were doing 50-55mph. as soon as i could i indicated and made my way into the left lane.

I do not know where in the rules of the road where it permits you to break the speed limit while overtaking?

why do people drive up your rear end and all and give you glares when you are driving at the actual permitted speed limit for the area in question?

--laoisfan

Technically it's illegal to break the speed limit
The whole point of overtaking is that it should be executed in a swift and timely manner, and without danger to other road users. So if it is necessary to accelerate to a speed above the speed limit in order to fulfill the above requirements, then it's a case of the lesser of two evils, and no Garda will stop someone for going above the limit for a few seconds, provided they slow down once the manouver is completed, and obviously aren't doing a stupid overtake (like a lot of Irish drivers).

You are not in the right to determine that because you are driving at the limit, then the person behind you cannot overtake you. You can pass judgement, but you cannot take action. Preventing someone from overtaking you is dangerous and illegal. Whether they're breaking the law or not is none of your business.

You should treat a two-lane carriageway as a standard two-way road, just with nobody coming towards you in the right-hand lane. That is, you should endeavour to stay in the left-hand lane, and overtake in the right-hand lane in a swift manner, such that facilitates you returning to the left-hand lane as soon as possible. You would not crawl, overtaking someone very slowly on a two-way road, therefore you should not do it on a two-lane carriageway. (I should write a new version of the rules of the road )

BTW I'm in no way defending the actions of any driver who drove up behind you and beeped or flashed agressively. A single flash is fine to alert the driver in front, but any more then that is just being a prick.

silverside

So if it is necessary to accelerate to a speed above the speed limit in order to fulfill the above requirements, then it's a case of the lesser of two evils, and no Garda will stop someone for going above the limit for a few seconds, provided they slow down once the manouver is completed, and obviously aren't doing a stupid overtake (like a lot of Irish drivers).

That is highly debatable. I've often seen speed traps at the only place where it was feasible to overtake (at the bottom of the hill on the way to Cork (Fermoy/Mitchelstown?) and if you sped up to 70 to overtake someone going at 50, you would be done. The gardai have their targets to make up so their discretion has been reduced. If there is two lanes going your direction there is no need whatsoever to go above the speed limit while overtaking.

laoisfan

wow - what have i started?

anyway, i guess the best advice was from seamus, thank you seamus.

i think from now i will do as most of you pointed out, generally stick to the left (of course i brushed up on my rules of the road last night as I thought it would be just fair!!)

i think i will just worry about my own driving in future!!

thanks all!!

-laoisfan

seamus

Originally posted by silverside
That is highly debatable.

Yes it is

anyway, i guess the best advice was from seamus, thank you seamus.

Ah, I'm just pedantic...

BrianD

why do people drive up your rear end and all and give you glares when you are driving at the actual permitted speed limit for the area in question?

That's assuming that your speedo is correct!

John R

Originally posted by BrianD
That's assuming that your speedo is correct!

Very good point, speedos can be very inaccurate.
It costs nothing to drive in the left lane. Why so many people insist on sitting in the right lane is completely beyond me. Staying in the overtaking lane is more dangerous both for those who do it and for everyone else. This is especially true on those climbing lane sections, if you look you will notice on some of these sections broken lines allowing traffic in the opposite (downhill) direction use the uphill overtaking lane for overtaking.

Victor

I think a good policy in such case would be to stick to the left, but be wary of a fully loaded quarry truck doing 30mph up ahead.

I'm not sure what the legal situation is where it says "climbing lane" or some such.

Banjo013

There are no such beasts as "fast lanes" or "slow lanes". They do not exist.

The left most lane (not the hard shoulder) on any road in Ireland is a normal driving lane, where the current national speed limit of 60mph applies unless otherwise stated. Obviously it's 70mph on motorways and may be less than 60mph in built up areas, as will be specified by signs in those areas.

Any lane on any road which is located to the right of the left-most carriage way is an overtaking lane.

I just wish that those muppets who either don't know this or choose to ignore it would cop themselves on and stop acting the maggots by planting themselves firmly in the outer overtaking lane with the speedo stuck on the speed limit. Shower of selfish, pig headed, ignorant and stupid w*****s they are. It's bloody dangerous for a start, and also it's not up to them to enforce the law. If someone else wants to exceed the limit that's their own business. Just get out of the f*****g way like a nice little road user. (notice I didn't say nice little driver, cause lets face it, anyone who does this can't drive really, can they ?!)

cyclopath2001

I think that the 'climbing lanes' may fall into the twilight zone of 'advisory signs' that local authorities erect. These are not legal instructions but are not unlawful.....

BrianD3

Any lane on any road which is located to the right of the left-most carriage way is an overtaking lane

Not really. On a dual carriageway the right hand lane could also be a right turn lane.

Shower of selfish, pig headed, ignorant and stupid w*****s they are

I generally agree with your comments about muppets hogging overtaking lanes. However take the followng scenario. Busy dual carriageway. Left lane is busy with traffic travelling at ~60 mph. Right lane is busy with overtaking traffic travelling in excess of 60 mph, breaking the speed limit and most likely tailgating each other too.

If someone is driving in the LH land and wishes to turn right half a mile up the road, he must move into the RH lane well in advance of the actual turn. This is difficult given that he'll be merging into traffic which is moving faster than the speed limit.. Once he moves into the RH lane, he's forced to either break the speed himself, or stick to the limit and hold up everyone behind him. He could also easily cut up someone during the lane change due to them not leaving sufficent gap for him to move into.

So you see it's not as simple as you make out.

BrianD3

Victor

Originally posted by Banjo013
The left most lane (not the hard shoulder) on any road in Ireland is a normal driving lane,

It could also be a cycle lane, bus lane or parking / loading area, probably among other things.

Originally posted by cyclopath2001
I think that the 'climbing lanes' may fall into the twilight zone of 'advisory signs' that local authorities erect. These are not legal instructions but are not unlawful.....

I took a look at the RotR and they are not mentioned, suggesting they are indeed in the "twilight zone".