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Gilmartin V Bertie whos lying?

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    #32
    LFCFan
    Moderators Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭LFCFan


    Originally posted by irish1
    Our Toiseach is lying????

    Does that really surprise you? He's probably just as corrupt as Charlie was. It also gives some indication of the lack of backbone in the FF party that they have never even had a vote of confidence in his leadership, considering all the fcukups and mismanagement he's been involved in. It makes the blood boil.


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    #33
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Originally posted by irish1
    fair play to Mary O'Rourke, shows there is some decent politicians out there.
    "Mary O'Rourke" and "decent politician" in the same sentence? Dear God.


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    #34
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Originally posted by oscarBravo
    "Mary O'Rourke" and "decent politician" in the same sentence? Dear God.

    In this instance yes!


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    #35
    star gazer
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭star gazer


    I'd have sympathy for Bertie in being forced to wait to appear at the tribunal, if his lawyer hadn't been so aggressive in cross-examining Gilmartin. After all bertie is not being accused of anything bad at the meeting in question. Still it looks like liam lawlor will give way and bertie will get to testify tomorrow.


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    #36
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Originally posted by star gazer
    I'd have sympathy for Bertie in being forced to wait to appear at the tribunal, if his lawyer hadn't been so aggressive in cross-examining Gilmartin. After all bertie is not being accused of anything bad at the meeting in question. Still it looks like liam lawlor will give way and bertie will get to testify tomorrow.

    His lawyer went to great measures to try and say he couldn't have been there.

    Now Mary says he was, will he continue to say h couldn't have been there, or will his memory go blank all of a sudden.


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    #37
    star gazer
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭star gazer


    originally posted by irish1
    His lawyer went to great measures to try and say he couldn't have been there.
    yeah it's strange, he tries to prove that on certain days he could not have been there, why doesn't he look for the days he might have met with him, given the clearcut evidence of his opposite number in the Senate. It would appear that he would prefer to go a destructive rather than a constructive route.


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    #38
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Originally posted by star gazer
    yeah it's strange, he tries to prove that on certain days he could not have been there, why doesn't he look for the days he might have met with him, given the clearcut evidence of his opposite number in the Senate. It would appear that he would prefer to go a destructive rather than a constructive route.

    He's a Muppet that might explain why, interesting to see what evidence he gives.


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    #39
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Originally posted by star gazer
    It would appear that he would prefer to go a destructive rather than a constructive route.
    Well...once you show yourself capable and willing of using rational thought processes to corroborate your story with the available facts, then you're in a real bind if and when you ever don't want to do that.

    On the other hand, if you start off looking stupid and uncertain, and continue that way.....

    jc


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    #40
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Me looking foward to tomorrow afternoon!

    Mike.


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    #41
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Originally posted by bonkey
    On the other hand, if you start off looking stupid and uncertain, and continue that way.....
    ... twenty years later you get made Taoiseach?


    (sorry, they'll take away my Amateur Comedy card, grade C, if I don't take opportunities like that)


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    #42
    star gazer
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭star gazer


    originally posted by mike65
    Me looking foward to tomorrow afternoon!
    me too but will it be an anti-climax or has gilmartin got something up his sleeve...

    The only thing that will be fun though will be that Bertie will actually have to answer questions, something he doesn't have to do in his daily life. Fudge and lawyers don't alsways work well together.


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    #43
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Bertie has said no formal meeting took place but a "general chit chat" could have taken place.

    LOL, what a way to back down lol

    Bertie is a bigger fool than even I gave him credit for!!!!


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    #44
    star gazer
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭star gazer


    <OUCH>
    Bertie got a grilling from Hugh O'Neill, tom Gilmartin's lawyer, bertie is still in the witness box, he has had to cancel his evening appointment and there isn't an end in sight yet. He'll hardly go for another day.

    I think he might regret, now, his lawyer going so hard after Gilmartin, benefit of hindsight.

    Bertie now accepts the meeting could have happened.


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    #45
    Mighty_Mouse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Mighty_Mouse


    Berti lied !!! Shock horror!


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    #46
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,414 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Originally posted by oscarBravo
    "Mary O'Rourke" and "decent politician" in the same sentence? Dear God.
    How about "Mary O'Rourke, decent, politician"? :D


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    #47
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Listened to the transcipts being re-inacted on Radio1 last night, my oh my didn't Bertie get a little hot under the collar.

    He was also tripping himself up a lot!!

    He said he didn't call Gilmartin Shifty or Dishonest but wouldn't disassoicate himself from these comments that were made by his council.

    Oh how i wish Cork was here to try and defend this idiot of a man we have to call Taoiseach.

    After hearing the evidence I have no doubt what so ever that Bertie lied.:mad:


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    #48
    ActingThe Magot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭ActingThe Magot


    For those who may be interested the link to the transcript of Berties visit to the tribunal is below
    http://www.planningtribunal.ie/images/SITECONTENT_267.pdf

    Bertie starts his evidence from Page 64
    O'Neill (Tom Gilmartins barrister) Cross examination starts on page 120

    The General Website link is http://www.planningtribunal.ie


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    #49
    Cork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,924 ✭✭✭Cork


    Originally posted by irish1


    Oh how i wish Cork was here to try and defend this idiot of a man we have to call Taoiseach.


    I am up to my neck with study & exams at the moment but irish1 - I have not made up my mind on this one yet.

    Nothing happened at this meeting.This meeting was inconsequential.

    Mary O' Rourke is not in agreement on either the meetings date or location.
    He said he didn't call Gilmartin Shifty or Dishonest but wouldn't disassoicate himself from these comments that were made by his council.

    People giving evidence don't. I have never seen anybody ever disassoicate himself from these comments that were made by his council. Bertie was 100% correct on this one.

    It is a pity Gilmarttin does not have the Isle of Man bank account number - this would be actual evidence.

    I won't be able to debate further with you on this one for a while. (3 exams next week).


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    #50
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Originally posted by Cork
    People giving evidence don't. I have never seen anybody ever disassoicate himself from these comments that were made by his council. Bertie was 100% correct on this one.
    No - he wasn't. Bertie tried to wiggle his way out of it by saying that his counsel didn't use those words, until the other barrister pulled out the exact paragraph from the transcript showing that his counsel had in fact, used those exact words!


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    #51
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Originally posted by Cork
    I am up to my neck with study & exams at the moment but irish1 - I have not made up my mind on this one yet.

    Nothing happened at this meeting.This meeting was inconsequential.
    That is exactly what Gilmartin said, but yet every other Minister except Mary O'Rourke says it didn't happen or they can't remember.

    Maybe because Gilmartin claims he was approached for 5 million after the meeting;)
    Originally posted by Cork

    Mary O' Rourke is not in agreement on either the meetings date or location.
    Location wise she says describes it differently, agreed. But she says it could have taken place from early Febuary to end of march which includes the dates Gilmartin says it happened, so to say she disagrees is not correct
    Originally posted by Cork

    People giving evidence don't. I have never seen anybody ever disassoicate himself from these comments that were made by his council. Bertie was 100% correct on this one.

    Yes but as Hugh O'Neill (council for Gilmartin) pointed out surely Bertie and his council had discussed the line of questioning that was going to used, and Bertie said yes he did discuss.

    The taoiseach tried to discredit the man over a land deal in the 70's and it back fired big time on him. He should have disassoicated himself from the comments for his own sake.

    But quite cleary the man is a fool, who is trying to cover his tracks, but doing a bad job of it.


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    #52
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Originally posted by RainyDay
    No - he wasn't. Bertie tried to wiggle his way out of it by saying that his counsel didn't use those words, until the other barrister pulled out the exact paragraph from the transcript showing that his counsel had in fact, used those exact words!

    Well said, your 100% correct he did say his council didn't say that and then after Hugh O'Neill read the transcript he tried to back track by going on and on that he didn't say those words instead of answering the question, but then again when has Bertie ever answered a question:rolleyes:


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    #53
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    I see cork has returned from his studies to bash SF, maybe you can respond to a few posts here:D


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    #54
    Cork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,924 ✭✭✭Cork


    Mr Gilmartin will say that Sinn Fein/IRA was used by individuals opposed to his plans in an attempt to intimidate him from developing a site in west Dublin in the early 1990s.

    Has SF responded to this?

    Link
    Mr Gilmartin will claim he was told "the boys" had a file on him. He was told the area he was proposing to develop was Sinn Fein/IRA's "patch" and that if he knew what was good for him he would "f**k off back to England", and also that "no f**king Unionist" would ever set foot on the site.


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    #55
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Originally posted by Cork
    Has SF responded to this?

    Cork dodges the question in true FF fashion, :rolleyes: .

    So I take it then you don't have any reply to the posts above??


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    #56
    Cork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,924 ✭✭✭Cork


    [

    Mr Gilmartin will say that Sinn Fein/IRA was used by individuals opposed to his plans in an attempt to intimidate him from developing a site in west Dublin in the early 1990s.

    I think all claims that Mr Gilmartin has made need investigation.

    The alledged meeting in government buildings was niether here nor there.

    He is not in agreement with Mary O Rourke on the meetings date or location.

    I really have no these tribunerals. They are too costly and too slow. I really have no openion on this - I will await the tribuneral findings.


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    #57
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Originally posted by Cork
    think all claims that Mr Gilmartin has made need investigation

    The alledged meeting in government buildings was niether here nor there.

    He is not in agreement with Mary O Rourke on the meetings date or location.

    They are too costly and too slow. I really have no openion on this - I will await the tribuneral findings.

    Well why did Bertie say it never happened then along with all the other Ministers???

    The date he claims the meeting took place is within the time frame that Mary O'Rourke says it occured.

    Oh you have no opinon on this but still you can say that, 1 accusation he has made that refers to the IRA needs investigation??

    Come on Cork even by your standards thats a bad post, FF are being brought to cleaners here and all you can do is talk about the IRA and then say "No Opinion":rolleyes:


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    #58
    Cork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,924 ✭✭✭Cork


    Nothing happened at that meeting. It was a non event. Are ministers not to have informal meetings?

    What happened at that meeting?

    Nothing.

    Allegations have been made what happened outside the meeting.

    But who was the "mystery man" & what happened to the bank account number?
    TOM Gilmartin, the property developer, will give the Mahon tribunal a shocking account of how he was threatened by a Sinn Fein representative who told him that the Provisional IRA was monitoring him, the Sunday Independent can reveal.

    What were the Provisional IRA at?


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    #59
    aine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 278 ✭✭aine


    Its gotta be Bertie all the way...I just hope Gilmartin manages to stick something to the Teflon Taoiseach! Theres no way Bertie didnt anything about what was going on with Haughey et al, I mean ya he and Bush are about intellectual equals but at the same time who in their right mind would be signing off on blank cheques?!! That just reeks to me!


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