Mercedes-Benz ! How the mighty have fallen.

rcunning03

Seen a c-class sports coupe and a clk today and even though they are expensive they just didn't look right. On another day I saw a 1991 CE coupe and it looked so much better, so much more solid and durable, very often when I see a 1997 e-class it looks in worse shape and more breakable than a 1992 e-class or even a 1972 e-class. Why does the mercedes badge do nothing for me anymore, It used to mean hewn from the earth, people comfortable with their wealth, what happened?

For awhile I thought that maybe I'm looking back at mercs from the early 90's with rose tinted glasses, but no I much prefer todays BMW over their predecessors. As far as I can see it all went wrong when the c-class was introduced and the a-class killed them off. Merecedes use to be unbeatable for their build quality now Volkswagen are better than them and I would choose a lexus before a Mercedes (If I could afford that type of car it would be a BMW). Hopefully BMW won't go down the same road now they are introducing a 1-series.

Does anybody think that todays range of Merc's (god knows there are so many different models in practically every market segments) are better than they were in the early 90's ? The new SL looks great and hopefully it's a sign mercedes are getting back to their old ways. Is there anybody reading this that has owned a new and old SL, that can tell us if the build quality on the new SL matches the old SL's ?

unkel

There have been reports over the last year or so about problems with some recent models. I've never seen reports about build quality problems of the E class and S class though

A lot of the reports I have seen put the blame on the fact that many models are not build in Germany anymore and the fact that DaimlerChrysler is now a giant company where the bottom line is all that matters so cost saving by platform sharing is high on the agenda

Originally posted by rcunning03
Hopefully BMW won't go down the same road

Hope so too. Both arguments above are not valid for BMW though. BMW is family owned and all cars except Z4 and X5 are made in Germany afaik

SheroN

The build quality of new mercs is really bad.

rcunning03

I've never seen reports about build quality problems of the E class and S class though

Everything works fine but they won't last as long as the old merc's. Hopefully what has happened to Mercedes will be a lesson to BMW, and Volkswagen really seem to have strived for old mercedes like build quality (In the mark iv golf anyway, don't know about the mark v)

rcunning03

BMW is family owned and all cars except Z4 and X5 are made in Germany afaik

BMW, Volkswagen and Mercedes for years have built cars in South Africa as well.

leeroybrown

If I remember correctly Mercedes cars in general performed abysmally in the most recent BBC Top Gear car satisfaction survey.

Doctor J

Just get a Japanese car, if car snobbery can be overcome. They're built to last.

rcunning03

Just get a Japanese car, if car snobbery can be overcome. They're built to last.

True, but I've never seen an interior of a Japanese car I've liked. As the salesman in Annesley motors told some people sit in a Japanese car and go "get me back into a german car" and some people sit in a German car and go "get me back into a Japanese car" it's a matter of taste I prefer German cars as traditionally they have tended to use better quality materials in the interior of the cars than the Japanese, even though Japanese cars last millenia.

If BMW, Volkswagen go the way of Mercedes then definately yes go for a Japanese car.

unkel

Originally posted by rcunning03
BMW, ... for years have built cars in South Africa as well.

You're right - never knew that

Some research shows that the X3 will be built in Austria and the SA plant manufactures the 3 series. Apparently the plant in SA is one of the best BMW plants in the world!

So all BMW saloons sold in Europe are built in Germany and also some 50.000 3 series are built in South Africa for export mainly to USA (LHD) and Japan and Australia (RHD)

rcunning03

Never knew what plant build for specific markets

mike65

As an owner of one of the last "old worlde" Mercs I would say don't buy anything used made after the W124 series went west (1995). Everything from the metal to the paint has been cut back on. Newer Mercs will age much faster while costing more to repair due to the onward march of complex electronic systems. Buying Chrysler was a bad move to as they spend to much time worring about that lame duck. Oh yes Mercedes Benz trump card used to be that they made a few models very well. now they make far to many niche models and have diluted the brand.

Mike.

xm15e3

Originally posted by rcunning03
Hopefully BMW won't go down the same road now they are introducing a 1-series.

Daimler Chrysler, Nissan, Mazda, Ford ect. Are all fallowing a management fad called "Manage for Share Holder Value". Essentially building a product only as a means to sell stock. BMW and Toyota are more traditional, build the best product for the best price type of companies. Until that changes, I wouldn't worry about it.

BTW, Chrysler engineers are a little ticked that the company that technically merged, is actually Daimler only. Chrysler build quality is starting to drop as well (yes, that is actually possible).

secret_squirrel

The US built mercs like the M class 4x4 are meant to have shocking quality problems for something with a merc badge.....

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by secret_squirrel
The US built mercs like the M class 4x4 are meant to have shocking quality problems for something with a merc badge.....

same with the BMW Z3 I believe...

Apart from the latest SL, there's nothing in the MB range that I would want tbh, the new E Class is nice and all but BMW are still way ahead of them imo

unkel

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
the new E Class is nice and all but BMW are still way ahead of them imo

Most reviews I've read showed that the new '02 E class just about beat the old E39 5 series that was 6 years old at that time :eek:

The current 5 series is a way better car again

BTW have driven them both and agree with the reviews

mrbungle

I think you all should take a deep breath and look at the new BMW 5-series.
I seen is and agree what some other have said, it looks too Japanese !!

The sloapy headlights make it look like a Mazda Xedos and the back is pretty gammy.
What BMW has going for it now is the new 6-series, now theres a real car !

(p.s. All Z3's are made in BMW's US flagship plant)
(Sth Africa doesn't make the SL and marque MB's)

unkel

Originally posted by mrbungle
the new 6-series, now theres a real car !

:cool:

Originally posted by mrbungle
the new BMW 5-series.
I seen is and agree what some other have said, it looks too Japanese !!

The sloapy headlights make it look like a Mazda Xedos and the back is pretty gammy.

The design is pretty controversial alright. I don't like the antenna at the back of the roof, but apart from that, the car is growing on me. Can't say the same yet about the current 7 series, but the old 5 series (E39) took a few years to grow on me as well. Nevermind, I usually buy them when they're about 7 years old anyway

ToxicPaddy

Originally posted by unkel
...Nevermind, I usually buy them when they're about 7 years old anyway

Thats a serious amount of time to grow on you...

I do like the new 5 series simply because even the basic model even with no extras
it still looks good.. unlike the model just gone out.. there are a lot of 520i's out there with no extras and they look soooooooooooooooo plain and boring...

With Merc, athough the build quality has dropped drastically you still see the touch
of class with it no matter what model in the range..

Tox

mike65

Gak! :eek:



Nice!

Mike.

secret_squirrel

omg Liam Gallagher has smaller eyebrows than that thing. Whats next the 3 series gets a monobrow?

unkel

Originally posted by secret_squirrel
omg Liam Gallagher has smaller eyebrows than that thing.

LOL

rcunning03

I think the new bmw's are beautiful, took awhile to get to like the 7-series though (probably cause of all the anti-German propaganda in the British motoring magazines)

In the early '90's the 3-series was the only BMW I prefered over a merc, now the only merc I prefer is the SL as opposed to the Z8.

Daimler Chrysler, Nissan, Mazda, Ford ect. Are all fallowing a management fad called "Manage for Share Holder Value".

Hopefully it is a fad, cause it's ruining everything, Boeing manage for shareholder value as well and they've been outclassed by Airbus now.

I read somewhere that the bavarian government are a major shareholder in BMW but under new EU rules (can't remember when I read this) they'll have to give up the ownership as it constitutes as a subsidy and when this goes BMW will have to goto the stock market to raise money and shareholders will want return on their investments (as we all would) thus leading to the mantra of cutting costs and therefore quality.

Seen pictures of the forthcoming Lexus GS and it looks really nice, but when are Lexus going to start giving a 3 door version of their cars ?