Predictions for Arsenal........

Bungalow Bill

Seeing Arsenal annihilate Portsmouth yesterday was unbelieveable. At the moment is there anybody who can stop them. On the thread about Real Madrid being unstoppable, the conclusion was that their defense was too weak.
Arsenal however have no apparant weakness.
Can they win the treble??

Pepe LeFrits

Can they win the treble? Yes.

Will they win it? No.

James R

I don't think so. Arsenal's weekness is their European form. They have been superb this season but they did struggle to reach the knockout stages of the Champions League in a not too spectacular group. At one stage it looked as though they were dead and buried. I know Arsenal fans will point to the match v Inter Milan etc but that wasn't a totally fair reflection on the game, it was close for large periods and Inter were going for goals and abandoned defence basically. They've struggled in Europe over the seasons and I don't see that changing a great deal. Their style of play is great for the Premiership but doesn't exactly suit Europe.

Even against Celta, who are having a poor season in La Liga, they struggled at times and their defence looked poor at times in that game. I think they'll get through to the quarter-finals but not much further.

The Phenom

Im a big Man U fan but i have to say Arsenal do look really strong. They don't look like theyll make any mistakes.

The Muppet

There a lot of rubbish being said about Arsenal at the moment. I saw someone saying they are the best team to have ever played in the english league, Sorry but they have a lot of winning to do over the next decade to be considered in the same catagory as the great Liverpool teams of the 70s/80s and the united teams of the last decade.

Yes they are playing well at the moment but I would suspect their defence against the better european opposition. I may be wrong but I dont believe they are good enough to win the CL . I do believe they will win the league this year as they have done in the past but they have never built on those victories and went on to dominate it like other teams have. If they meet united in the FA cup I would back united to be more up for it than the gunners this season and would expect united to triumph. That said the current arsenal team is playing great attacking football and are a joy to watch but we'.ll have to see if they progress from here.

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet
I may be wrong but I dont believe they are good enough to win the CL

Who do you rate good enough, from those left in the competition? On current European form (the last 2-3 matches) they look one of the better teams. On Overall form, they're looking like world beaters.

I'd certainly rate them better than Utd & Real on the last matches evidence. Dunno about Milan.

jank

I think ac milan will be the team to beat this year in the CL

the double looks good for arsenal at the mo but they havent won anything yet and they must keep their feet on the ground, last year will have taught them that

Michelangelo

What stands out about Arsenal?

Their hungry. They are extremely hungry.

Even against Celta, who are having a poor season in La Liga, they struggled at times and their defence looked poor at times in that game. I think they'll get through to the quarter-finals but not much further.

WORD.

I think you are totally correct and I also share this view with you. They looked poor at times in defence. And I think they will not get further than Quarters myself. In fact, I wonder what the odds are like.

crowl

On current European form (the last 2-3 matches) they look one of the better teams.

I would disagree with this. They struggled at times against a very weak Celta team. They beat a distinctly average Kiev team and played well against a struggling inter milan team. I notice how u only say last 2-3 matches, forgotten bout the ones before already?;)

James R

Thats just it, they've not met anyone big as such. Inter Milan aren't the force they once were. I'm not knocking their victories to date, you can only beat whats put in front of you but if they had played the way they did against Celta against better opposition they would have been well behind going into this week's match. It was the worst defensive display I've seen from Arsenal in years.

I just don't think they're style is suited to Europe. People say Real don't look too convincing but they consistently get results. Played very poor v Bayern and still came away with a draw and an away goal.

Dustaz

ugh, i hate agreeing with the muppet but hes right about some things.

Arsenal are in pole position in the league and if they can keep composure, they can win it. Id agree that Utd would be more up for an FA cup match than arsenal but then again, its become a bit of a 'home' cup for arsenal in the last 5 years.

The champions league however might be a bridge too far. On their day i fully believe that Arsenal ARE the best team to have played in england for the last few decades but they dont seem to be able to produce that form consistantly enough in europe. Its hard to see past milan and madrid for the CL but as kaids said they are _capable_ of winning all 3, i just dont think they will.

James R

I don't agree that they are the best side to have played in England in the last few years. This season definitely. Possibly last season too but thats not how great teams are remembered. They are remembered on their success and this Arsenal side haven't won the title consistently enough to get into the category of the Utd team of the 90s or the Liverpool team of the 70s/80s imo

jank

I don't agree that they are the best side to have played in England in the last few years. This season definitely. Possibly last season too

what about in 2001/2002 when they won the double?

lets be honest here they have been the best side in england since 2001
but to be remembered as great then success in europe will have to come in some shape or form

It was the worst defensive display I've seen from Arsenal in years.

aww come on, ok they were soft goals to give away but its a bit harsh imo
yea they will have to tighten up at the back but at the end of the day you can only beat whats put in front of you

i actually aggree with the muppet here too that utd may pip them to the fa cup but arsenal will want to win that one especially since the hand bags at old trafford, also to prove a point, but utd will have the exact same points to prove too

should be a fantastic semi or final if they happen to meet
ohhh i cant wait, time will tell though

Michelangelo

lets be honest here they have been the best side in england since 2001

FFS, no they haven't. Cop on and wake up and realise.:rolleyes:

jank

FFS, no they haven't. Cop on and wake up and realise.

well if not who are?

pssst utd
dont think so
pre 2002 yea not a shadow of a doubt and ill give them credit where it is due
they were the team of the 90's

Michelangelo

2002 - 2003 Manchester United
2001 - 2002 Arsenal
2000 - 2001 Manchester United

Jank you are totally and utterly wrong.

jank

yea thats true utd won the league last year or should i say arsenal blew
fair play to utd cause they went on a great run of victories but it was arsenal that played the best football that year but sometimes that doesnt win you the league

domesticly arsenal have been the best team in england since 2001
3 fa cup finals too remember

2001-2002 won the double
2002-2003 played brilliant football, blew the league at the end but still managed the fa cup
2003-2004 unbeaten after 27 games, nine point lead at the top and looking well for another record double, however could end up with nothing if they blow it again
time will tell

Michelangelo

but it was arsenal that played the best football that year but sometimes that doesnt win you the league

Are you ripping the p i s s?

No it was not and that is why they didn't lift the trophy that matters, the Premier League one.

domesticly arsenal have been the best team in england since 2001

I think it is relatively safe to say Man Utd never really gave a toss about the FA Cup up until this year. They started swaying their attention more towards the League and Europe.

The FA Cup is a Mickey Mouse cup. Even if Utd win it this year, it is no substitution for them not winning the league. Ok it will be a bit of silverware and has a good bit more importance than the Charity Shield but overall, it is no way near as good as the league and the only satisfaction everyone will take from it is probably if they meet Arsenal in the final and beat them. They will take more pride out of that then winning that trophy.

jank

yea its not the league or the CL but there are thousands of fans and 90 odd teams in england that would give their right arm to win one
tell them who go watch thier team week in week out year after year that the fa cup is a mickey mouse tournament.

saying it means nothing is arrogant

Michelangelo

Obviously to some Div1 team the Fa Cup is everything but not to the big boys like Arsenal and Utd who are fighting for European glory and English dominance, something the Fa Cup can not fulfill and will not ever fulfill .

James R

Jank my point was that although Arsenal may have played the best football since 2001 they haven't been successful. Winning the double once doesn't make them great. No ones going to look back in 10/15 years time and say they were brilliant. they will look back and say that about Utd/Liverpool teams of the past though because when you look at the records you see consistent victories in the league. Arsenal haven't done that yet. They need to win the league back to back or at least every second year for a while to consider themselves a great team domestically. To be a truly great team European success has to come.

As for the Celta match I stand by what I said it was the worst defensive display I've seen from Arsenal in years. Yes they won and yes they can only beat whats put in front of them and yeah they only conceded 2 goals but I've never watched an Arsenal game in recent memory thinking they could concede every time the opponents attacked. Its just because they've set such a high standard defensively going back to George Graham days even. That was worst display I think since they lost 6-1 to Utd.

Pepe LeFrits

On the defensive display against Vigo, i don't think it was that bad. Both the goals came from set pieces (Vigo also hit the bar from a set piece), the defending for them was brutal. From open play it wasn't THAT bad, a little bit shakey, perhaps. Certainly Arsenal's defending at the end of last season when they came apart was much worse. This season it seems that Kolo Toure has helped fill the void left by Tony Adams... he's not the tallest though and Vigo threw in a lot of high balls and caused problems, i reckon they'll have worked on that area of defence for the 2nd leg. I hope so anyway.

Dustaz

Originally posted by James R
I don't agree that they are the best side to have played in England in the last few years. This season definitely. Possibly last season too but thats not how great teams are remembered.

I would suggest reading up on Holland of the 70's and Brazil of the 80's (the two blinding examples that come straight to mind) before you make statements like that.

Great teams are remembered as great teams. Success helps certainly, but its not vital.

jank

good points james r about measuring greatness of a team but so far this season they are on the right track to achieve another double(touch wood), and there are plenty of years left in henry and Co to achieve back to back league titles at some stage
as i said earlier they blew the chance last year to get back to back titles
also dustaz puts it well that great sides dont always win

Wenger is the main man at highbury, what he has done has been incredable especially on a shoe string budget. he wants to be there for a good few years yet and is quite younger than fergie

I think whatever happens this arsenal side will go down as ONE of the greats in the english game, we just have to wait and see HOW great (as in everton/leeds or
man utd/liverpool great) can they be or will it all go horribley wrong!


personally I think the greatest club side ever was AC milan late 80's early 90's, they ****ing rocked with van basten etc.
they won everything in sight and went unbeaten in the league one year, myabe thats what wenger is trying to emulate but instead of a trio of dutch players there are a trio of french players (henry, vieria and pires)

James R

I agree with Dustaz in theory but he mentioned national teams. Its easier to remember them because they play only a handful of times every year and the old clips of them are dragged up before World Cups etc and there is so many videos/dvds out there of past World Cups/international games.

In domestic football its different, the good teams aren't always remembered. Take Newcastle for example, a couple of seasons back they were probably the best team in the league. Like Arsenal last season, they lost a huge lead and that side is pretty much forgotten now despite being Newcastle's most successful side in about 50 years.

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by Michelangelo


The FA Cup is a Mickey Mouse cup.

That's so typical of the attitude that non-United supporters hate. It's the oldest knockout cup competition in football, and just because it's third choice to Arsenal or Manchester United, doesn't make it any less worthy of winning.

Winning the FA Cup in 1990 is what kept Ferguson in his job after four years of general mediocrity and people in Old Trafford unfolding banners telling Fergie to clear off. Now if they hadn't won it that year, and Fergie had been sacked, the last decade of constant silverware for United might not have happened.

Don't be so fucking arrogant.

kida

FFS - This isn't even the best Arsenal team ever let alone the best team ever. The league contrary to popluar opinion has not been yet. People are getting carried away here.

Heres a prediction Henry will get sent off soon enough for a really bad foul. That swipe on the Portsmouth defender on Saturday was nasty and had he connected would prob have gotten a red card. He has also been guilty of similar lately and a nasty streak seems to have emerged in him lately.

Pacifico

Originally posted by kida

Heres a prediction Henry will get sent off soon enough for a really bad foul. That swipe on the Portsmouth defender on Saturday was nasty and had he connected would prob have gotten a red card. He has also been guilty of similar lately and a nasty streak seems to have emerged in him lately.

I dont think so;)

crowl

2002-2003 played brilliant football, blew the league at the end but still managed the fa cup

Sorry are you listing this as one of their achievments.

The FA Cup is a Mickey Mouse cup.

For ppl giving out about this I presume he meant for big clubs eg. Man Utd and Arsenal who are competing for honours in Europe. For any other club it is a massive success to win this cup (just look how happy Boro were to win the Carling Cup) but for the bigger teams this is certainly not a primary goal.

Also for ppl saying Arsenal have been the best team in recent years I always thought the best team was the won who won the league???

jank

Also for ppl saying Arsenal have been the best team in recent years I always thought the best team was the won who won the league???

thats a very simplistic view on it, generally speaking that is the case but sometimes doesnt happen, football is never as black and white as that

remember leeds/utd a good few years back
the general view there is that the best team that year did not win the league

Sorry are you listing this as one of their achievments.

is winning back to back fa cups not an achievement!?

FFS - This isn't even the best Arsenal team ever let alone the best team ever.

can you name a better arsenal side!?

Heres a prediction Henry will get sent off soon enough for a really bad foul. That swipe on the Portsmouth defender on Saturday was nasty and had he connected would prob have gotten a red card. He has also been guilty of similar lately and a nasty streak seems to have emerged in him lately

you also predicted that arsenal wouldnt even finish third (in other words finish last) in their CL group
you love being so wrong dont you

PHB

I think Arsenal are a super team but saying they are one of the best sides to ever play in England is a bit silly tbh

Defensivly they are slightly weak, and I think it will be capitalised on by the European top clubs.
Goalie isn't world class. He's good, but hes not super.
There are chinks in their armour.

Michelangelo

Originally posted by TwoShedsJackson
That's so typical of the attitude that non-United supporters hate. It's the oldest knockout cup competition in football, and just because it's third choice to Arsenal or Manchester United, doesn't make it any less worthy of winning.

Winning the FA Cup in 1990 is what kept Ferguson in his job after four years of general mediocrity and people in Old Trafford unfolding banners telling Fergie to clear off. Now if they hadn't won it that year, and Fergie had been sacked, the last decade of constant silverware for United might not have happened.

Don't be so fucking arrogant.

Obviously to some Div1 team the Fa Cup is everything but not to the big boys like Arsenal and Utd who are fighting for European glory and English dominance, something the Fa Cup can not fulfill and will not ever fulfill . - this is what I said previously and I stand by it.

jank

really good article here from the bbc by alan hanson

he puts it well and airs some of the views expressed on this thread

elbow316

Well "English Dominance" would be the League AND the FA Cup - the FA Cup still means a hell of a lot, you're talking about it as if its down there with the Carling cup, which it isn't.

For the record, I think Arsenal will do the Domestic Double this season, while going damn close in the champions League. Its crazy that Chelsea and United go around splashing all that money and Wenger builds a team that is sooo much more impressive

lad12

The fa cup doesnt mean diddly squat..all that matters these days is the champions league...and the winners of that comp. wont be from the Premiership...

Real
A.C.
Juve

Michelangelo

Originally posted by lad12
The fa cup doesnt mean diddly squat..all that matters these days is the champions league...and the winners of that comp. wont be from the Premiership...

Real
A.C.
Juve

WORD. Spot on.

Pacifico

How do you know a prem team wont win it?

lad12

Because its gonna be one of the three teams i mentioned above...and i'd be leaning more towards A.C or Juve because arsenal and real will struggle to break there defences down...and they will hit them on the counter attack...Real have a sh*t defence but are the best attcking team in europe and even they will struggle to break down juve or a.c defences...As for arsenal when they played(i think it was) Roma earlier in the season at highbury they were taken apart..there game of threading balls thru the defence didnt work..and were well beaten on the nite..i kno arsenal got a big result away at roma but Roma were in turmoil at the time just like leeds...

Pacifico

Ah so you can see the future. Cos there is no other way you could know:D

lad12

Well if i was a betting man i wud put my money on either A.C or JUVE...and that is just purely on stats and recent results..i know there can be upsets...and maybe there will be a major upset of arsenal wining Europe...but i doubt it..

Bungalow Bill

I think the fact that they are 27 games unbeaten in the league means that they could achieve anything.
For anyone who says that the CL is out of their grasp in simply wrong. They attack like Real Madrid and manage to hold it together at the back.
By the way i'm more utd than I am arsenal but these things have to be accepted.

lad12

DO NOT COMPARE REAL MADRIDS ATTACK TO ARSENALS...THERE IS NO COMPARRISON...FIGO->QUALITY, ZIDANE->QUALITY,RAUL->BRILLANT,RONALDO->DIFFERENT CLASS,GUTI->QUALITY,BECKHAM->GOOD

Pepe LeFrits

PIRES->QUALITY, LJUNGBERG->QUALITY, BERGKAMP->BRILLIANT, HENRY->DIFFERENT CLASS, VIEIRA->QUALITY, EDU->GOOD

lad12

Maybe in the premiership but not in champions league...pal

The Muppet

Fnck I wish I was Colourblind.

lad12

i am colourblind

Dustaz

and also incapable of telling the difference between Inter and Roma apparently



JamesR, i was actually going to use Newcastle as an example, but i thought the tabloid mentality of this board would only remember the LOVE IT part of that team

The Muppet

Originally posted by lad12
i am colourblind

Th a t E x p l a i n s I t !

Hyzepher

At the moment there is no team in Europe that would want to be drawn against Arsenal in the next round - provided they get through. They know that it would be a tough game and they might be beaten - if anything that is a testiment to Arsenal and their ability. Dont write them off yet - they have a hunger this year - you could see it against pompey - didn't let up even when they went 4 up

Hyzepher

jank

aparently roma are doing very well at the moment and are pushing ac milan very hard at the top of the table and to compare inter with leeds is utter horse ****

first you make a point that INTER beat arsenal 3-0 at home which was valid but then totally dismiss their victory over them at the san siro because they are in tormoil like leeds...you cant have it both ways mate

are inter at the bottem of seria A, they were CL semi-finalists last year werent they!?

PHB

Attack wise it would be interesting to compare the three teams(Arsenal, Man United, Real Madrid)

Left wing:

Pires vs. Figo vs. Giggs

I'd personally go for Giggs(my favorite player), with Pires second, and Figo last

Right Wing:

Ljungberg vs. Beckham vs. C. Ronaldo

I'd go Beckham first, with Ljungberg second, and Ronaldo third(I do however think that Ronaldo will be first next season)

Centre Midfield:

Zidane vs. Viera vs. Keane:

Zidane first obviously, I don't think you can call it between Viera and Keane.

Centre Midfield(2):

Edu/Gilberto vs. Scholes/Kleberson/Richardson/Butt vs. Noone(real Madrid don't really play two midfield)

I think Scholes is Man United best player(after Keane), then Edu and Gilberto would be better than the rest of the Man United midfield

Strikers(first):

Ronaldo vs. Henry vs. Van

Henry first(really hard to call but I see henry play more), then on current form Ronaldo second and Van Nist third.
However i think any player here could be better than any other if they were on form.

Striker(second)

Raul vs. Berkjamp vs. Saha

Raul first obviously, Berk second(might have been first 3 years ago) and Saha third.


So if you give best 3 points, second 2 points, and last one point you get:

Arsenal: 3 + 2 + 1.5 + (2) + 3 + 2 = 11.5(13.5)
Real : 1 + 3 + 3 + + 2 + 3 = 12
Man U : 2 + 1 + 1.5 + (3) + 1 + 1 = 6.5(9.5)

Interesting