Midnight Tides

moridin

Another EXCELLENT effort from Steven Erikson. Set on a different continent and featuring a new set of characters, but written in his wonderfully detailed tapestry-like style of peicing things together... will need to re-read a couple of the previous books before tackling this one again to get the "big picture" of the story.

Lots and lots of excellent characterisation as per usual.

You could read it without having read the other books in the series, but then references to characters like Anomander (Anomandaris) Rake would be lost

Buy it. Buy them all.

hostyle

Agree 100%. I havent been able to put it down since I got it yesterday. First book was a bit dodgy, but since then its been all masterpieces. The mans a genius.

moridin

I think the first book only comes across as less polished because it prettymuch drops you right in the middle of the story and leaves you to puzzle out warrens and holds and the deck of dragons and ascendants etc for yourself.

If you re-read it you'll see that it does set the scene really well for the following books

hostyle

So you agree its a bit dodgy then

moridin

well no... I think that initially you need to do a lot more brainwork with this series in order to appreciate it than you do with 99% of the other fantasy novels you can buy, and that brainwork might put people off :ninja:

hostyle

Jumping right into a huge and complex fantasy world with much explanation missing is a sure way to turn off readers. He could have added a few more explanations here and there, without changing much at all. Thats just my opinion - don't get me wrong: I thoroughly enjoyed Gardens of the Moon, but it has turned off other readers (my girlfriend and one of my mates - neither finished it). But having said that - done is done.

Spoiler warning

I finished Midnight Tides a few days ago, and while I enjoyed it, I think it was the worst one so far (though still far better than the majority of current new fantasy being written). He was quoted as claiming that Lether was going to be even more impressive than Darujistan, but I think he failed in that aspect. I also don't see why he didn't go into a finale where all the dead are finally released form the Jaghut warren / spell. I presumed that that was where everything was leading.

I was also mildly curious as to why he introduced demons (the Kenryll'ah / Kenyll'rah) and did so little with them (they chased the Forkrul Assaill and thats pretty much it). I was also hoping for some indication (even a slight one) of how Trull Sengar ended up chained to a wall on a flooded warren / world - was that Memories of Ice or House of Chains?

Plus, what was the point in so much of the story based around the Beddict brothers? Tehol didn't do anything but wear funny trousers, sleep on the roof and plan a repeat financial ruin that he never followed through on. Tull walked around miserable and bent upon revenge but didn't actually do anything about it. Brys was possibly the only interesting one. I also think its a pity he didn't go into some detail on the Lether / Cedance magic. Did they use a warren or "something else"? I found Bugg and Tehols conversations mildly entertaining but hope that he doesn't try to do a Terry Pratchett anymore, because hes not very good at it, and I prefer my fantasy without it.

I enjoyed the whole Tiles and Holds concept, and much else that was new. The first hundred pages of the book had me rivetted - with the betrayal of the Tiste Andii (and a hint of Anomander Rakes retribution, but nothing more), and mention here and there of other Ascendants featured in previous books. The Azath dying was intriguing but never really explained - why did it die? The killing of the Toblakai gods was interesting ( in particular it makes you wonder how Prince Kazz was subjugated by the Malazans at all (I know that in Memories of Ice there was an alliance, but they did seem to be a subjugated kingdom trying to rebel)) but I thought totally un-necessary. Ublala, the three women who hired Tehol, Gerun Eberict, most of the Lether kings court (I couldn't understand which one was which at times, due to so little character development amongst them), and many others seemed un-necessary characters to the main plot in my opinion. Even Kettles character was rather sparse, with lots of hinting that somethings going to happen, but in the end nothing did. Is she a Forkrul Assail reborn or isn't she? And what in Hoods name is a Finadd?

I want more stories about Quick Ben taking on the Chained God and I'm dying to see more about the K'Chain Chemalle and the Forkrul Assail, and I wouldn't mind at all if his next book tells the story of the human race on another continent who are slaughtering the T'lan Imass

moridin

Um, yes, cheers for the PM hostyle, sorry for the non-reading of boards cause by my Final Fantasy XI addiction...

Right, lets dig into this....

I finished Midnight Tides a few days ago, and while I enjoyed it, I think it was the worst one so far (though still far better than the majority of current new fantasy being written). He was quoted as claiming that Lether was going to be even more impressive than Darujistan, but I think he failed in that aspect. I also don't see why he didn't go into a finale where all the dead are finally released form the Jaghut warren / spell. I presumed that that was where everything was leading.

I stand by my opinion that the book is most impressive indeed. I'm re-reading it again now to try and pick up on all the little bits and pieces that I may have missed, though again it's kinda fallen by the wayside due to ffxi.

IMO, the point of this story is to give a history of lethar so that when the armies of rhulad are introduced in later books they're not thrown in with no introduction.

At the very end of House of Chains, Trull Sengar starts to tell his story, and his story is the story recounted in Midnight Tides. That's where all this fits into the current events, and there are a number of new plot angles/threads introduced and old threads tied up by this book.

I was also mildly curious as to why he introduced demons (the Kenryll'ah / Kenyll'rah) and did so little with them (they chased the Forkrul Assaill and thats pretty much it). I was also hoping for some indication (even a slight one) of how Trull Sengar ended up chained to a wall on a flooded warren / world - was that Memories of Ice or House of Chains?

Isn't that an easy question to answer? Trull finally went too far with his questioning of Rhulad, and he was shorn for it. The place he was chained up is the flooded Edur warren I assume, which is why the t'lan imass bonecaster and the liosan were able to use his blood to fashion a gateway out of there.

Plus, what was the point in so much of the story based around the Beddict brothers? Tehol didn't do anything but wear funny trousers, sleep on the roof and plan a repeat financial ruin that he never followed through on. Tull walked around miserable and bent upon revenge but didn't actually do anything about it. Brys was possibly the only interesting one. I also think its a pity he didn't go into some detail on the Lether / Cedance magic. Did they use a warren or "something else"? I found Bugg and Tehols conversations mildly entertaining but hope that he doesn't try to do a Terry Pratchett anymore, because hes not very good at it, and I prefer my fantasy without it.

Again, I disagree majorly. Tehol was probably my favourite character from all the books so far, including Quick Ben, and I bet he'll have a part to play later on in the series. Bugg = Mael, so it shows an elder god standing up to ol chainy-bones which is nice to see for a change. Hull I didn't like tbh, because erikson portrays him very one dimensionally as a character bent on revenge and having nothing else to live for... which is exactly perfect as it explains tehol's motives for wanting to make lethar pay for what they did to his brother.

There has been some speculation that because of the jahut spell the continent did not develop like the rest of the world - the tiles relate directly to the holds of the other books, which are an older version of deck of dragons

I'm not going through your next paragraph because it's huge and I've typed lots now. Suffice it to say that I loved the hints for stuff that could feature in future books, and references to the other books.

Oh, and I'd assume that a Finadd is a Captain in the same way that a Preta/Preda seems to be a general.