A United Ireland

Typedef

And what if we had to force them into a united Ireland, at the end of the day they would see the benefits. Were everyone is treated equally.

I rest my case.

You can't force somebody into a thing and claim to be treating them equally.

Hello?

I'd love to see a United Ireland, out of some gorilla-like pride in my country, but, I won't act like an animal to accomplish it and at the end of the day enough, people in the North of the Country don't want it, that history provided a highly flawed two State solution.

Either that solution moves toward joint authority or repartition.

I would never stand for having Unionists forced into a Republic and mate, I vote farily Republican for Southern politics, while you might accuse the Southerns of not caring you're wrong.

I'd accuse you of being too close to the situation to think of the human rights violations you are actually proposing, it's wrong and it enfeebles national pride to suggest it.

Think Ghandi grasshopper.

At the end of the day, I'd support Ireland joining the Commonwealth, if it would expadite a more integrated Ireland, hell, I'd even sign us up to some sort of partisan support of British foreign policy, but, you can't claim the moral high ground and at the same time expect to have your views on the situation be pre-eminant over the views of your adversary.

When the day comes that Nationalists are in the majority in Northern Ireland, it won't mean an Irish Republic, it will mean... maybe, another more Green then Union Jack tinged, joint authority settlement, but it will still be a joint authority settlement.
That's what Unionists sharing power with Republicans means in the long run, it means that when it's the Irish who outnumber the Unionists in Northern Ireland, the Unionist opinion still gets respect, whatever about history... it's - in - the - past.

Honestly a 32 country Republic is as much of a pipe dream as Paisley's Protestant State for a Protestant people.

Get over it, the Republic is no picnic, we have drugs, crime all the bad shit every other country has, only we don't have Loyalists to blame for that.. sadly, we can accomplish all that just fine... sinn fein.

Sparks

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
Why do people want a United Ireland? Hmmm.... maybe...

Ireland was one country with its own system of law before the English invaded (Brehon Law, in case you never payed attention in history class).

No, it wasn't. I did pay attention in history class you see.
There has never, ever been a united irish nation at any point in recorded history, outside of fictional fairytales. Hell, even there there was a split between Ulster and the rest of the provinces.
We were a feudal system, don't forget.

you turn your backs on the true Irish aim of freedom?

The true aim of Irish freedom is a better quality of life for Irish people.
I think the people in Omagh and Enniskillin would point out to you that what the people you're supporting do is not conducive to that aim, in fact is contrary to it.

What if the 26 counties were still under English rule and you could be interned or beaten up for campaigning for freedom or even speaking as Gaeilge?

And the provos are better, are they? 800 innocent civilians beg to differ.

If you went back to 1916 and told James Connolly that holding the Rising wouldn't be wise as many people would die and lots of property would get destroyed he would probably hit you.

True enough - the man wasn't the most civilised example of humanity. Mind you, as he was taken from the GPO, half of dublin turned up to spit on him for the loss of life and damage to the city he'd caused first-hand. The irony is, if he hadn't been shot by the British, he'd have been ostracised by the Irish for the rest of his life.

And you still haven't given me a good reason.

Sparks

Originally posted by markomac316
I dont want to piss on them, I just want to live in an Ireland without a crown, and not being controlled by a foreign nation.

Move to the Republic then.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by markomac316
BAnd what if we had to force them into a united Ireland, at the end of the day they would see the benefits. Were everyone is treated equally. We may have to bring them in kicking and screaming but they will see at the end its whats best. And if they dont like the idea of being ruled by an Irish leader then they could move back to England or Scotland {cause thats what your saying to us, move down south}.

Does "force" in this instance mean "bomb"? Or: "What if we had to bomb them into a United Ireland, at the end of the day they would see the benefits. Where everyone is treated equally"? Crikey. Another sickening comment.

If this is the case, you obviously don't believe in something called the democratic will of the people. You don't want Norn Iron to be part of the UK, so you're willing to force it onto everyone, rather than try something civilised like take a vote on the issue.

sceptre

Originally posted by markomac316
I'd be grateful if you could tell me so I could pass them onto my old history teacher.

Assuming you mentioned the famine because it was actually relevant to your point, time for your old history teacher to go into a senility home and/or learn something about economic history. Or beat his less-than-understanding students around the head with a rubber ruler.

Here's a start. Lots of little reasons in there that have nothing to do with swearing fealty. Try not to selectively quote.

If the famine was irrelevant to your point and you really meant beheadings or something equally exciting that didn't come from the abridged Sinead O'Connor history of the 1840s, then get off the pot and say what you actually meant. Not that that'll be of great actual relevance to people living in terraced houses in Belfast in 2004 in any case.

ronanp

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
If you went back to 1916 and told James Connolly that holding the Rising wouldn't be wise as many people would die and lots of property would get destroyed he would probably hit you.

If you went back to 1916 and told James Connolly that some glorious day, an "army" professing to represent him and the ideals of the left would kill and mame civilians (of all ages) by bombing them while the shopped, paraded, or drank, I can absolutely promise you he'd never have lifted a finger during the rising. The rising is one of Irelands great misunderstood events. It wasnt an outburst of Nationalism, it was predominantly a (badly organised) workers rising - the citizen army and the volunteers were fighting for people, not for a flag or a rebel song session down the local. And their reward? Being showered in spit and ****e by the good folk of Baile Ath Cliath, who now claim the rising as their own.

ColonelGadaffi

As you can see, most people have no want of a united ireland of misery. We dont want northern ireland foreigners in our country!
they have no right to join and everyone in the south of the island must rise up and stop this firm in its tracks. Who is here that see any benefit of such an idea.?
Ulsterfaction will result in more childern being fed drugs by the paramilitaries in the south.

Civilian_Target

What amazes me most about this thread is the poll, that suggest that there's only 1 vote between those who believe a united Ireland tommorrow would be better than what's here today.

David and mac316, have you ever lived in the North? Do you know what it's really like? How would you like that in the South? Didn't think so.

It wouldn't at all surprise me to find out that Belfast alone had a higher crime rate than the entire of the Republic (including Limerick)

markomac316

I do live in Belfast and yes there is a high crime rate in the west of the city because the cops sit on their asses and watch skangers destory the city. The only people out policing the streets are community watch groups and they cant do very much as they have no authority to do anything.

And I've also been in Dublin a lot {and i know a lot of people who live there} and they all say Belfast is much safer than Dublin. Infact more than 3/4's of the people I know wouldnt walk through O'Connell street after 7.00pm, there is nowhere like that in Belfast at all {apart from the divides in the communities}. The city centres are as safe as you can get. So personally I think the South of Ireland would welcome that with open arms.

I can see this is getting nowhere as the majority of the people who have voted are happy in their Ireland. And the guy who said move to the Republic Im sorry to tell you but I can afford that. I just cant get up and leave because I have commitments up here.

Nuttzz

My advice to people who dont want the missing 6 is go and listen to your national anthem..Whats playing The Soldiers Song, or God Save the Queen, because for most people here its God save the queen

The Soldiers Song is the republics national anthem. Yours is God save the Queen.

Look at the cash in your wallet, its BRITISH
Post a letter, thanks to the ROYAL Mail
Ring someone, you can use BRITISH telecom

Face it Northern Ireland is BRITISH, you are from Northern Ireland so that makes you BRITISH, your Irish too, just like the Scots are Scots & British, the Welsh are Welsh & British and the English are English & British.

I know wouldnt walk through O'Connell street after 7.00pm, there is nowhere like that in Belfast at all {apart from the divides in the communities}.

So there is somewhere like that in the Belfast then???? :rolleyes:

David-[RLD]-

If they're all British then aren't we too?

ROYAL College of Surgeons
ROYAL Dublin Society
ROYAL Canal
Esat BRITISH Telecom
Ireland is also part of the BRITISH Isles!!!

Nuttzz

Bar Esat BT the rest where in use before 1922..... bombay street in Belfast doesnt make it in India (pity)

David-[RLD]-

so? what's the difference?

the north is still part of Ireland, therefore it's Irish...
but you're saying it's British, which would make us British too since loads of placenames here are British.

Sparks

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
the north is still part of Ireland, therefore it's Irish...
but you're saying it's British, which would make us British too since loads of placenames here are British.

A placename does not determine nationality.
A currency, a legislature, a legal system and soverignty, however...

mike65

Originally posted by Sparks

There has never, ever been a united irish nation at any point in recorded history, outside of fictional fairytales.

I thought Ireland was united under British rule?

I'll get my coat.....:ninja:

Mike.

Sand

There are many ways of doing things to make everyone happy. Put assemblys in every province, that way the unionists would be happy because they still have ulster, and that way we're happy cause we're part of Ireland once again.

And everyone else is unhappy because we dont want the bloody North. The British made a fine mess of it over the centuries, let them keep it - and the bills. Anyway, in a few decades well all be part of some European Federal superstate and fighting and killing over being in the UK or the Republic will make as much sense as fighting and killing to make County Kildare part of County Dublin. Not that it makes any sense now either.

I'll get my coat.....

Hope its flame retardent

markomac316

Originally posted by Nuttzz
The Soldiers Song is the republics national anthem. Yours is God save the Queen.

Look at the cash in your wallet, its BRITISH
Post a letter, thanks to the ROYAL Mail
Ring someone, you can use BRITISH telecom

Face it Northern Ireland is BRITISH, you are from Northern Ireland so that makes you BRITISH, your Irish too, just like the Scots are Scots & British, the Welsh are Welsh & British and the English are English & British.




So there is somewhere like that in the Belfast then???? :rolleyes:

Ill look at the cash in my wallet and guess what its the US Dollar, so am American now?.
Ill post a letter and yes I'll use Royal mail.
Ring someone and Ill use NTL.

Face it there is no such place as Northern Ireland, I am from the North of Ireland so that makes me Irish, just like being from Scotland makes you scottish, being from Wales, Welsh and being from England, English.

Also Ill look at my birth certificate, my passport, and any other official document/idea I have and it will say IRISH!.

ColonelGadaffi

But the fact is that you were from another country. You have not the slighest chances to join in our country.The northern Ireland is a ugly place, now they want out and join us becuase it is so bad. Their futball team is a joke and all they produce is dentists. Vote no on this thread

markomac316

I was born in a different country erm no i wasnt, I was born in Belfast, IRELAND!..You dont realise how lucky u got it 2 bad your not gonna give some of that luck towards us unlucky ones, though that is your choice.

ColonelGadaffi

markomac316, why have you such a bad look on things? Its ok that you are from another country, you wont be stopped on the border anymore. But there is not the thinest of chances that the northern Ireland will be allowed admission.

I am sorry that you have no luck and you live in that terrible country. Is it not true that you are all genetically scottish anyhow? Even the Catholics? Maybe its why they are all so angry up there.

pigeonbutler

Firstly I am, in principal, in favour of a United Ireland but I'd much rather see a peaceful Ireland.

The reality of the Northern Ireland situation is that the British State have absolutely no interest in maintaining control of it for selfish reasons. They simply want to keep order in a Province which they'd much rather be rid of.

Remember why the British troops arrived on the streets of Belfast in 1969/70? It wasn't to opress the Nationalist community. It was to protect them from the pogrom stirred up by Paisley and his band of bigots.

If the DUP, UUP etc. all announced in the morning that they'd love to join the Irish Republic the Brits would be out of there in a flash. There is no strategic advantage anymore to a British presence in the North.

So, basically if a significant majority of the Norths Population (66% plus) voted for a United Ireland, then I'd accept it but I'm not going to force my nationality on, give or take, 1 million people who consider themselves British.

gurramok

I'm not going to force my nationality on, give or take, 1 million people who consider themselves British.

Where did you get the 1 million from?

Based on present elections/religion or what, nobody really knows the exact number who call themselves british or irish up there, unless you surveyed every household

markomac316

Originally posted by ColonelGadaffi
markomac316, why have you such a bad look on things? Its ok that you are from another country, you wont be stopped on the border anymore. But there is not the thinest of chances that the northern Ireland will be allowed admission.

I am sorry that you have no luck and you live in that terrible country. Is it not true that you are all genetically scottish anyhow? Even the Catholics? Maybe its why they are all so angry up there.

Have you a mental problem? or you slightly disabled?..if you are dont worry I know a lot of people who are and so I will explain again and again until you understand. If you want I can break it down for you even more?.

Im not from another country. Im from the North of Ireland, county Antrim, in a city called Belfast. Ok thats all part of IRELAND, also the place where you live.

And Im sorry im not from Scotland Im from IRELAND. My family can be traced back to Donegal and Derry, and they are both in Ireland as well the same country that YOU live in.

Do you UNDERSTAND now, because if you dont I will gladly explain again.

sceptre

Originally posted by markomac316
I was born in a different country erm no i wasnt

Gets the same answer that I gave here with an addition here. Pointless even cutting and pasting it again. I'm still open to coherent discussion on it (mostly because the legal position outlined is completely correct). Not open to incoherent babble on it.

Civilian_Target

Originally posted by markomac316

And I've also been in Dublin a lot {and i know a lot of people who live there} and they all say Belfast is much safer than Dublin. Infact more than 3/4's of the people I know wouldnt walk through O'Connell street after 7.00pm, there is nowhere like that in Belfast at all {apart from the divides in the communities}. The city centres are as safe as you can get. So personally I think the South of Ireland would welcome that with open arms.

I've lived in Dublin, for 11 years. Trust me, Dublin is safer than Belfast. The statistics prove it, the South's crime rate is almost 4 times lower than Belfast, and the rate of reported crime is higher in the south too (obviously the police can only estimate that).

I've just come back from a night out at the Limelight, and I saw 3 big guys beating up a guy from a local takeaway, on the Lisburn Road. Fortunately, the police were arriving on the scene at about the same time. Two of my housemates have been mugged less than 50 metres from my house in the last year, and Eglantine Avenue (where we live) is one of Belfasts safest areas. We've also had a brick put though one of our windows and 2 drunken scumbags trying to knock our front door in (again in the last 12 months). Even in halls last year, on the Malone Road, the SAFEST area in Belfast, 2 of my friends got beaten up walking up the Malone Road from Queens. So don't tell me Belfast isn't violent, go to Fortwilliam, or East Belfast. There's nowhere even close to that violent in Dublin.

And it's not just Belfast, BTW, check out Castlederg or Ballymena. Not exactly the nicest town in the world.

So, to summarise, I don't want the south to become infested with the extremist politics we get up here. As I've already said, the Republic of Ireland is the 5th safest nation in the world, why would you let a bunch of terrorists in to poop on your party?

ColonelGadaffi

markomac316 I have no " mental problem? " and I have no "slightly disabled?." Its ok... but the fact remains you are from another country if you like it or not.

We dont want to be like the Northern Ireland and its violence and all its problems. Everyone is an extremest from there and has only violence on their mings.

Dublin as our capital is the 16th saftest in the world, safer than your capital London! Ok? we have no want for the likes of Sinn Fein the Mafia or the religious DUP. Dublin is 4 times bigger than Belfast but does not have anything like north Belfast so dont say such things.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by ColonelGadaffi
Dublin as our capital is the 16th saftest in the world, safer than your capital London!

capital of the North is London ... ?? ... err no

its Belfast :rolleyes:

Vlad Drac

We dont want to be like the Northern Ireland and its violence and all its problems. Everyone is an extremest from there and has only violence on their mings.

HAHAHA! Are you from some remote island off the west coast? Have you ever been to the North? You know anyone from the North? Doubt you'll find we are all extremists you arse.

Dublin is 4 times bigger than Belfast but does not have anything like north Belfast so dont say such things.

You don't have a North Dublin? North Belfast has its good spots and bad spots just like all large urban areas.

Civilian Target ...

I've lived in Dublin, for 11 years. Trust me, Dublin is safer than Belfast. The statistics prove it, the South's crime rate is almost 4 times lower than Belfast, and the rate of reported crime is higher in the south too (obviously the police can only estimate that).

When you say the souths crime rate does this mean all of the south or just Dublin? Because of its the whole of the south including all quite towns and villages etc compared to a city the crime rate is bound to be higher ... could maybe see your point if comparing both Belfast and Dublin.

I've just come back from a night out at the Limelight, and I saw 3 big guys beating up a guy from a local takeaway, on the Lisburn Road. Fortunately, the police were arriving on the scene at about the same time. Two of my housemates have been mugged less than 50 metres from my house in the last year, and Eglantine Avenue (where we live) is one of Belfasts safest areas. We've also had a brick put though one of our windows and 2 drunken scumbags trying to knock our front door in (again in the last 12 months). Even in halls last year, on the Malone Road, the SAFEST area in Belfast, 2 of my friends got beaten up walking up the Malone Road from Queens. So don't tell me Belfast isn't violent, go to Fortwilliam, or East Belfast. There's nowhere even close to that violent in Dublin.

That type of behaviour is more to do with living in the student areas. Students get totally **** faced and fight ... it happens in most cities nowadays, more to do with the drinking culture. So where theres a large number of students, theres lots of drinking and bound to be fights. Also your mates where probably mugged from some spides from either the Village or something which is near Eglantine.

Personally I dont think there is a solution to the problems here. If the republicans get there way and get a United Ireland the problems are only going to start all over again as the loyalist population will no be the minority who will be fighting for a independent separate state where they can practice there culture etc. I like the way it is here at the minute, not much trouble bombings and shootings wise.

markomac316

Student areas are like that that is the same everywhere. Students when drunk will get violent. The Malone Road is actually not one of the safest places in Belfast.

I've lived on the falls road for 17 years and only once have I ever been in a fight on it. I've been going up and down it day and night since I was about 12 and I've never seen anyone getting a kick in at all. I've been into Belfast city centre and never seen it. I've been on the Shankill Road and never seen it.

Im not an extremist, thats a very sterotype comment from you.

London is not the capital of the North of Ireland, London is the capital of England. Dublin is my capital.

Typedef

If born in Ireland:

* the long form of your Irish State birth certificate which shows the names of your parents.
* your marriage certificate, if applicable
Note: Certificates issued by religious authorities are not valid for this purpose.

If born outside Ireland to a parent born on the island of Ireland:

* the form of your civil birth certificate which shows the names of your parents (the long form) and
* the long form civil birth certificate of your Irish born parent and, if applicable,
* your parents’ civil marriage certificate, if applicable.

Disintrestingly.
http://foreignaffairs.gov.ie/services/passports/01.asp

It would seem as if, so long as one of your parents was born on the island of Ireland, you may be entitled to hold an Irish passport.

ColonelGadaffi stop stirring the sh*t and give up those nuclear weapons we all 'know' Lybia is hiding, we will not stand for WMD, in the hands of interweb trolls.