A United Ireland

pigeonbutler

Originally posted by bonkey
It doesn't matter whether you want to decry the GFA as sectarian or not. THe GFA explicitly makes religion an issue within the framework which currently exists.

The GFA does not explicitly make religion an issue. It makes the support of both communities (ie. Unionist and Nationalist NOT Catholic and Protestant) an issue. Before some of the more ignorant people out there say "Sure all Catholics are Nationalist and all Protestants are Unionist" we know that while it may be true for the most part it's by no means a completely accurate statement. In fact one of the most nationalist-inclined guys I know is of Taiwanese parents, living in Fermanagh and an unrepentant atheist!

Johnny 5

Originally posted by Sand
It looks to me like Catholics north and south of the border have a lot in common in resisting the nationalist/republican stereotype - neither demographic want a united Ireland.

Apart from that we dont have a whole lot in common.

How do you figure that one out?

daveirl

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Johnny 5

Originally posted by daveirl
To our friends in the North, it's clear that a hell of a lot of people in Ireland don't want to have anything to do with the North, in fact even if a referendum scraped past by a percent or so, then you'd be forcing an idea on a large minority who don't want it. Isn't that exactly what you spent the last 80 years being so wound up over?

It would 'scrape' past by about 20 odd percent. I think the idea of creating a state based on religious makeup is a bit different than a democratic vote. But what's great about the North is that whenever we vote in an election that's it, the public has spoken, whereas your corrupt politicians decide to run the whole election all over again. That's mighty democratic.

Originally posted by daveirl
Personally, I'm still pissed off with those damn Scandanavians, their invasion and imposition of Viking culture upon our utopian Cetic society was a disgrace! And the damn french, in 1166, how could they impose their rule?

If you're still bitter with the British for the Plantations and stuff, good luck to you, I'm not going to hold the current population of Britain responsible for that.

Don't be so naive daveirl. So we where just overjoyed at the stormont administration since 1922, and of course the troubles had nothing to do with our bitterness either.

Ever hear of 'only speak when you can improve your silence?'.

David-[RLD]-

Originally posted by Johnny 5
It would 'scrape' past by about 20 odd percent. I think the idea of creating a state based on religious makeup is a bit different than a democratic vote. But what's great about the North is that whenever we vote in an election that's it, the public has spoken, whereas your corrupt politicians decide to run the whole election all over again. That's mighty democratic.

you have a point there. Fianna Fáil.. *shudders*

Tiesto

cant even go out for a few pints on a friday night (in Galway) without trouble from some northern ****.
so i voted no!! haha

Johnny 5

Originally posted by Sand

It looks to me like Catholics north and south of the border have a lot in common in resisting the nationalist/republican stereotype - neither demographic want a united Ireland.

Apart from that we dont have a whole lot in common.

Still waiting on that answer...

But whilst your figuring it out, let me list what we do have in common... (off the top of my head now, if anyone wants to add go ahead)

• We play the same sports (GAA etc.)
• We share the same religion
• We listen/play the same traditional music
• We share the same heritage
• Our cultures and lifestyles are identical
• We speak the same languages (Gaeilge is infact stronger in the North)
• We are of the same race (Celtic)
• People in the north have the same nationality as southerners
• We're on the same island!
• Catholic schools in the North, teach nearly identical cirriculums as those in the south.

Only thing I can think off that we don't have in common would be our accents, but then again, all the border counties (Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal) speak exactly like we do.

luckat

Yes, I want a united Ireland. I want the Protestant people of Northern Ireland to want a united Ireland, and I want an Ireland that is theirs as much as it is the greenest of green republicans'.

It would be a different Ireland, but I think a better one.

I haven't voted because I'm not Catholic or Protestant.

An Fear Aniar

Originally posted by luckat
Yes, I want a united Ireland. I want the Protestant people of Northern Ireland to want a united Ireland, and I want an Ireland that is theirs as much as it is the greenest of green republicans'.

It would be a different Ireland, but I think a better one.

I haven't voted because I'm not Catholic or Protestant.

I don't want a UI if it means a majority of Unionists are being forced to do something against their will.

At the same time, I want Nationalists in Northern Ireland to have social justice and the means to express and pursue their cultural goals.

luckat

What a country we could have if the Northerners would come in with us - what a rich mix it would bring into our cultural and political mix. With the traditional drive and organisation of the Protestant tradition added to the traditional creativity and imagination of the Catholic tradition (if in fact these are not inaccurate stereotypes), how we could soar!

bonkey

Originally posted by pigeonbutler
The GFA does not explicitly make religion an issue. It makes the support of both communities (ie. Unionist and Nationalist NOT Catholic and Protestant) an issue. Before some of the more ignorant people out there say "Sure all Catholics are Nationalist and all Protestants are Unionist" we know that while it may be true for the most part it's by no means a completely accurate statement. In fact one of the most nationalist-inclined guys I know is of Taiwanese parents, living in Fermanagh and an unrepentant atheist!

Sorry...I made the mistake of assuming that David RLD knew what he was taking about when he explicitly mentioned a Catholic majority in terms of what the GFa says....

Maybe you should take this up with him rather than me?

If he is correct, then the GFA makes religion an issue whether it is right to do so or not.

If he is incorrect.....well then.....the entire point would appear to be moot, wouldn't it.

jc

monument

Originally posted by Sand
It looks to me like Catholics north and south of the border have a lot in common in resisting the nationalist/republican stereotype

Are you basing that on this poll? If so, you might want to factor in that an internet poll like this is not even up to the standered of an newspaper poll.

Even if the poll results are a close representation general opinion it’s worth noting that the results are very close.

At the time of posting this the over all was 41 yes votes to 42 no votes.

kanurocks

Why does it have to be a sectarian poll.Your stereotyping a nation.We can have a united ireland with two religions!Or is that beyond irish thinking?

Mighty_Mouse

I don't want a UI if it means a majority of Unionists are being forced to do something against their will.

What about nationalists being forced to live under foreign rule. Its against their will not to live in a united Ireland:p

Johnny 5

I don't want a UI if it means a majority of Unionists are being forced to do something against their will.

Tell you what we should do, draw a line round the area where there is about 30% unionists, then force them to live in a UI while the rest go on living in the Union.

No wait...

And a recent survey by the British/Irish commission revealed 68% of southern citizens were in favour of a UI.
:P, It'll happen some day lads, better jump on the bandwagon now before it fills up.

bonkey

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
I don't want a UI if it means a majority of Unionists are being forced to do something against their will.

But... how would you manage to post to boards without a UI. I mean, even a command line is a UI.

Oh...wrong UI....ne'mind

And a recent survey by the British/Irish commission revealed 68% of southern citizens were in favour of a UI.

Assuming thats the same UI as AFA referenced above....do you have any more information? Linkage would be nice....but even which study (and which comission) would be a start.

(I'm not doubting you...I just haven't heard of it and would like to inform myself a bit better).

jc

kanurocks

I dont think theres ever going to be a finite solution to the problem.Maybe in a hundred years when the world is recognised as on nation with no Cultural or sectarian or political devisions. That maybe the ultimate solution.But by then we may have discovered life beyond earth .I dont know!After reading 9 pages of thread again i still cant think of anything:(

monument

One world, one nation, and many cultures with no evils such as “diversity” – what a dream.

daveirl

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AngelofFire

catholicism is not an integral part of irish tradition or identity

I am a protestant and i believe that i united ireand should come about as it would be beneficial, but only with the consent of a majority. since the treaty of 1921 tensions between catholics south of the border has been virtually non existent. i have never been descriminated agaisnt as a result of my religion. the same can happen up north imo.

however i can emphatise with the fears of some unionists who believe that home rule is rome rule. under the 1937 constitution dev gave little recognition to the fact that ireland is not a one religion state. the catholic church were given special postions. even to this very day ireland is still governed by roman catholic principles but things are getting better.

daveirl

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Mighty_Mouse

So my question is, if we rejected a United Ireland, would you try to force your viewpoints down the majority down here?

Continue to campaign for it

---

yes.

Personally I don't believe the Irish republic would vote to leave Ireland un-united for monetary selfish reasons.

daveirl

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Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
Do you really think Sinn Féin would be able to sway voters in the south to give up loads of cash, when they can't even persuade more than 60% of catholics in the North to want a United Ireland.*

I don't think Sinn Fein would have to persuade anyone, I think whoever is in government would have to, I mean could honestly see FF turning around and saying to the people of Ireland "sorry we decided we don't want the 6 counties so Tony's going to hold onto them"

Seriously daveirl, any party in Ireland would not turn down the oppurtunity to have Ireland United, if they did they would be the laughing stock of the World.

Oh and I think a poll down south would show a majority wanting Ireland United

daveirl

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Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
The polls said Nice would be carried.

Do you not realise that people would have to think what a United Ireland would mean to them, and all it would mean to people in the South would be far higher taxes and possible violence, and to people in the North it would mean crappy social services.

Since you think it's so easy you don't need to persuade people perhaps you can try telling me why I would want a United Ireland? What would be your campaign slogan? How would you sell the idea?

Well we live on an Island, that Island was one state until the plantation of Ulster, now we have the chance to get the six countys back and unite the state.

I just think the majority of people would want that, maybe I'm wrong its just my thoughts.

Oh and Nice was carried daveirl, and polls only count if people actually bother to vote.

daveirl

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Johnny 5

Actually we were one state up until 1922, until the Brits saw fight to draw lines on Ireland.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
Woah, woah, woah. That's not even remotely correct. Ireland was never united as one state.

Your logic is brilliant, do you think Canada and the USA should unite since it's the geographic entity of North America?

So go on you're gonna have to a lot better than that to convince me to part with thousands of euro.

We were ireland, the whole Island, not the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland 2 seperate states.

Is that not correct!!!!!

David-[RLD]-

:eek:

just after looking at the poll results after a few days away from boards.
things are going well imo