Referenda on non-national births

LegacyUser

neither the child nor the parents should be given citizenship, the child should be taken into care for 5 years while the parents are jailed for 5 years, and then they should all be sent back to where they came from, only scum of the highest order would use their children like that, if they have fair claim to refuge then they should claim it and be welcomed here, but bringin a kid into the world as a pawn is vile

ishmael whale

Originally posted by antrophy
they are proposing a referendum that will deprive some of the nations children of citizenship due to their ethnic origin.

Which is of course not what is proposed at all.

Originally posted by antrophy
The referendum will be an opportunity for extreme right wing groups to gain a foothold in Irish politics.

It actually seems to be providing an opportunity for left wing groups to grandstand and sloganeer.

Its always easiest to destroy a straw man.

Sparks

From BreakingNews.ie:

A date for the Government’s controversial referendum on citizenship rights could be announced later this evening. Ministers are believed to have discussed the issue at their weekly cabinet meeting this morning.
The discussion is believed to have centred on whether the referendum should he held in conjunction with the local and European elections on June 11 and whether the wording of the proposed amendment would be ready by then.

dathi1

Coalition to be set up by Residents Against Racism - RAR Saturday, Mar 13 2004, 4:09pm residentsagainstracsim@eircom.net address: 12a Brunswick place, Dublin 2 phone: 087 7974622 or 087 6662060national / rights and freedoms / news report

This crowd need to be brought to task. I'm fed up with refugee quangos regurgitation how "racist" we all are. You're a thought criminal if you think that illegal immigration should be controlled. You're a thought criminal if you don't accept open borders...and you're racist too just for good measure. The problem with a lot of these neo liberal Dublin 4 montrose / SWP hacks is that they're afraid of the 90% mandate that will be exercised if such a referendum takes place.

Matt Simis

Just a quick question: Is there a EU directive or guideline on this matter?
Right to citizenship is surely a matter that should be implemented in a similar manner across Europe..?


Matt

Victor

Originally posted by Matt Simis
Right to citizenship is surely a matter that should be implemented in a similar manner across Europe..?

Is that EU citizenship or Irish citizenship?

It would be interesting to know how the parties feel the timing of the referendum will affect their chances in the various elections, looks like the PDs want is in June, FF in November (immigrants with votes might actually vote for them, but holding the referendum in June could alienate them).http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/2870289?view=Eircomnet

Cabinet fails to agree on date for referendum
From:The Irish Independent
Wednesday, 24th March, 2004

A PROPOSED referendum on non-national citizenship is unlikely to be held in conjunction with the local and European elections in June after the Cabinet failed to agree a date yesterday.

Tanaiste Mary Harney told the Dail there was now a view that it "makes more sense" to hold the referendum on the birthrights of non-nationals at the time of the presidential election in the autumn, should one be held.

The failure to reach a decision means the issue is set to slide past the June 11 date for the local and European polls. Labour leader Pat Rabbitte claimed yesterday that a team of US consultants had been employed by Fianna Fail to identify electoral issues.

He said that findings showed immigration was a concern with the public that ranked 17 points ahead of the next most sensitive area, health. Fianna Fail last night denounced the claim as "lies".

A spokeswoman said the party had no dealings with any such American company. "It is an outrageous charge and absolutely untrue," she said.

Ms Harney said the situation in relation to non-nationals arriving to give birth in Ireland amounted to a clear abuse of the system.

Non-nationals account for 22pc of births in the four Dublin maternity hospitals and if the pressure on resources continues, an entirely new maternity hospital in the capital will need to be built and equipped, she said.

Ms Harney added that racism was always entirely unacceptable and she said she hoped that the forthcoming election campaigns would be conducted in a "proper manner".

The Cabinet also decided yesterday to publish a bill to allow for the roll-out of electronic voting across all 42 constituencies in June.

The legislation is expected within the next seven days.

Senan Molony Political Correspondent

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/2870063?view=Eircomnet

Rabbitte stands over criticism of immigrant poll
From:ireland.com
Wednesday, 24th March, 2004

The Labour Party leader last night stood over his claim that the Government was pursuing a citizenship referendum because Fianna Fáil's voter research had identified immigration as a major election issue.

Fianna Fáil's official spokeswoman accused Mr Pat Rabbitte of "absolute fabrication" after he said in the Dáil that voter research by US consultants engaged by Fianna Fáil placed immigration "17 points ahead of health" as an election issue.

Labour's official spokesman expressed surprise at the stance adopted by the Fianna Fáil spokeswoman and said Mr Rabbitte was standing by his remarks.

The Fianna Fáil spokeswoman said: "We carry out research from time to time. This issue has not been highlighted in our research."

She said she was absolutely certain about that.

While Fianna Fáil has been a client of the US consultancy Shrum Devine & Donnelly, the spokeswoman said, the party had not engaged any US consultancy to carry out voter research for it.

The two parties clashed after the Tánaiste, Ms Harney, said no date had been set for the referendum but indicated a preference for conducting the poll on the same day as the local and European election on June 11th.

"Many would be of the view that we are having an election anyway, and it makes more sense to have it on that occasion than to have it during the presidential election, if there is one," she said.

While Ms Harney had no doubt that the referendum would wtir up "undesirable feelings", she said there was an onus on all politicians to ensure "racism does not take hold in Ireland to ensure that the campaign is conducted to the highest possible standards".

The Cabinet discussed the referendum at its weekly meeting yesterday, but a Government spokesman said he did not know whether there was agreement on the detail of proposal to be put before voters.

Mr Rabbitte sought to shift the focus of the debate to claims by the masters of the Dublin maternity hospitals that they were being made "scapegoats" for the Government decision to seek a referendum. Ms Harney said she was not certain what had happened at a meeting between the masters and the Minister for Justice, Mr McDowell.

Mr McDowell has said the masters "pleaded" with him for Government action to do something about the large numbers of foreign nationals presenting late in their pregnancies to give birth in Ireland.

The masters subsequently denied that they had sought any constitutional or legislative change.

Ms Harney said yesterday: "I doubt very much if the masters would have come to it looking for changes in legislation, but I know from private discussions with people working in the maternity hospitals in Dublin that there is enormous concern about what is happening."

She said the masters had raised the issues and maintained that something needed to be done.

A social policy that could target those who are completely innocent; William Binchy: page 16

girliewoman

I AM THRILLED THAT THE YES VOTE HAS GONE THROUGH, ITS ABOUT TIME THAT US IRISH PEOPLE HAD OUR REAL SAY, IM SICK TO THE TEETH OF THESE SO CALLED REFUGEES, WHY SHOULDNT WE SAY IF WE WANT THESE AS IRISH CITIZENS OR NOT, THEY ARE MORE RACISTS THAN US IRISH, THEY GET EVERYTHING PAID FOR, WHILE THEY SIT ON THEIR ARSES IN THEIR SOCIAL WELFARE PAID CARS, DO NOTHING BUT SCROUNGING, WHY SHOULDNT THEY APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, IF YOU WERE TO GO TO AUSTRALIA YOUD HAVE TO SHOW PROOF OF MONEY UPFRONT, WHY CANT THEY PAY FOR AND WORK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND WHAT THESE REFUGEES ARE ABOUT, ITS A DISGRACE TO THINK THAT THERE IS IRISH PEOPLE SUFFERING IN RUNDOWN HOUSING AND THE LIKES OF THESE GET LUXURY HOUSES AND APARTMENTS PAID FOR, ITS A DISGRACE, I VOTED YES TO THIS REFERENDUM LIKE MANY MANY OTHERS JUST LOOK AT THE SATISTICS.I SAY SHIP THEM OUT ASAP, THEY MAKE OUR PROBLEMS IN THE HEALTH AND SCHOOLING WORSE. PEOPLE ARE SICK TO DEATH OF THIS LOT. THEY HAVE TAKEN OVER OUR SCHOOLS OR HEALTH CENTRES OUR HOSPITALS,
MORE REFERENDUMS PLEASE, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE GONE IN THE FUTURE.

pete

YOU TYPE LIKE A NIGERIAN

2/10 for the trolling, incidentally

sceptre

Originally posted by girliewoman
I AM THRILLED THAT THE YES VOTE HAS GONE THROUGH, ITS ABOUT TIME THAT US IRISH PEOPLE HAD OUR REAL SAY, IM SICK TO THE TEETH OF THESE SO CALLED REFUGEES, WHY SHOULDNT WE SAY IF WE WANT THESE AS IRISH CITIZENS OR NOT, THEY ARE MORE RACISTS THAN US IRISH, THEY GET EVERYTHING PAID FOR, WHILE THEY SIT ON THEIR ARSES IN THEIR SOCIAL WELFARE PAID CARS, DO NOTHING BUT SCROUNGING, WHY SHOULDNT THEY APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, IF YOU WERE TO GO TO AUSTRALIA YOUD HAVE TO SHOW PROOF OF MONEY UPFRONT, WHY CANT THEY PAY FOR AND WORK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND WHAT THESE REFUGEES ARE ABOUT, ITS A DISGRACE TO THINK THAT THERE IS IRISH PEOPLE SUFFERING IN RUNDOWN HOUSING AND THE LIKES OF THESE GET LUXURY HOUSES AND APARTMENTS PAID FOR, ITS A DISGRACE, I VOTED YES TO THIS REFERENDUM LIKE MANY MANY OTHERS JUST LOOK AT THE SATISTICS.I SAY SHIP THEM OUT ASAP, THEY MAKE OUR PROBLEMS IN THE HEALTH AND SCHOOLING WORSE. PEOPLE ARE SICK TO DEATH OF THIS LOT. THEY HAVE TAKEN OVER OUR SCHOOLS OR HEALTH CENTRES OUR HOSPITALS,
MORE REFERENDUMS PLEASE, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE GONE IN THE FUTURE.

GREETINGS FRIEND, I REALISE WE HAVE NEVER MET BUT I AM SURE MY BUSINES PROPOSAL WILL INTEREST YOU. I AM MASA MANATUBI THE FORMER BUSINESS PARTNER IF THE EX PRESIDENT OF MOZAMBIQUE. BEFORE HIDING IN DRUMCONDRA DUE TO A MUCH REVILED COUP IN MY HOME COUNTRY HE HID THE SUM OF THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS IN A SWISS BANK ACCOUNT. SHOULD YOU WISH TO ENABLE MY UNCOVERING OF THIS MONEY YOUR FEE WILL BE TWENTY PERCENT


Obviously I found the above hard to read. I got a good laugh out of the "SOCIAL WELFARE PAID CARS" though.

Bah, I see pete got in there before me

Victor

So girliewoman, how does this refendum make one house available to homeless people?

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by girliewoman
I VOTED YES TO THIS REFERENDUM LIKE MANY MANY OTHERS JUST LOOK AT THE SATISTICS.

Want to share the statistics with us?

THEY MAKE OUR PROBLEMS IN THE HEALTH AND SCHOOLING WORSE

So it's "their" fault you can't operate a keyboard, or speak English properly?