Marching against Al Qaeda - what a joke

An Fear Aniar

They'll be laughing their sandals off at thousands of left wing pantywaists waving banners saying inane stuff like "arms are for hugging, not for fighting" and "Bu$h = Hitler".

Unfortunately, these guys have to be dealt with the old fashioned mediaeval way, as their speech and actions indicate.

mr_angry

Is there a point to this thread?

And how could you march against an organisation without a centralised command or responsibility to the puclic?

An Fear Aniar

Originally posted by mr_angry
Is there a point to this thread?

Yes. My point is that the anti-war Left are oppsoing everyting the POTUS is doing.

So, over to them. How would they deal with Al Qaeda.

If you're going to go around telling people "war is always wrong" - which I think is a stpid thing to say - then you have a duty to have some alternative to offer people who are clearly frightened by the threat of massacre by Al Qaeda.

So, how would the trendy left deal with OBL and his minions?

ShaneHogan

Ah - I've seen the error of my ways - Given that Bush's 'war on terror' has been so effective against Al Qaeda over the past three years, us lefties were really wrong all along.

simu

Marching is useless. It gives people the illusion they have some control over these events. Also, some of the ppl at those marches were laughing and smiling - what the hell is that about?

What the US should do is to get its act together and find a way of infiltrating Al Quaeda cells instead of wasting time on pointless airport security checks. Also, fix the situation in Iraq up quickly before you get a generation growing up that hastes America and is willing toeat up Al Quaeda's ideas.

mike65

The marches are about mutual support really. It makes them feel a (bit) better when they need to. Of course Al
Queda and Ozzy Bin Liner wont care one way or the other assuming they have an involvement which seems likely.

Mike.

An Fear Aniar

Originally posted by ShaneHogan
Ah - I've seen the error of my ways - Given that Bush's 'war on terror' has been so effective against Al Qaeda over the past three years, us lefties were really wrong all along.

Yes, it has been highly effective. Guantanamo Bay is full of people who may have killed thousands by now.

Sparks

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
Yes, it has been highly effective. Guantanamo Bay is full of people who may have killed thousands by now.

Ah, the ignore list Like pepto=bismal for the eyes...

An Fear Aniar

Originally posted by Sparks
Ah, the ignore list Like pepto=bismal for the eyes...

Fine, stick your head in the sand.

In a combat situation you don't hold a trial before taking prisoners, you sort out the combatants after you've got them to stop trying to kill you.

bonkey

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
In a combat situation you don't hold a trial before taking prisoners, you sort out the combatants after you've got them to stop trying to kill you.

Yeah. And as the released British have so well illustrated in teh last week, not only do you do that, but you lump in the people you didn't catch in combat situations, and still take several years to figure out that you don't have a case against them.

But of course, I'm guessing that an untrendy rightist like yourself would...what was that term....stick his head in the sand when it came to issues like observing Human Rights.

jc

The Corinthian

Originally posted by simu
Marching is useless. It gives people the illusion they have some control over these events.

I agree, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Such marches can give an outlet for expressing grief and solidarity when there is frankly nothing else that can be realistically done.

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
So, how would the trendy left deal with OBL and his minions?

The left tends to spend most of its time finding fault in the actions of the US, which I would agree is a pointless and reactionary occupation. Long before 9-11 the same tired activists were coming out with the same tired arguments, and regardless of what happens, this is unlikely to change.

However, this is not a black and white situation where one side must be right because the other is wrong. The right is equally blinkered in this regard, with many pro-US pundits (such as yourself Fear Aniar) happily going along with any US action regardless of European interests.

And unless you’re under any delusion Fear Aniar, we’re Europeans, not Americans; and while our interests may often overlap with the US you should not be so naive as to believe that they are the same thing.

And so European interests are really the issue, because a year ago Spain, Italy and Poland were not targets of Islamic terrorism and today they are. And along with the UK, all they have gained is a few scraps from the Iraqi table.

In a combat situation you don't hold a trial before taking prisoners, you sort out the combatants after you've got them to stop trying to kill you.

Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset :rolleyes:

Zombrex

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
So, over to them. How would they deal with Al Qaeda.

Who said Bush is dealing with Al Qaeda?? Since 9-11 Al Qaeda has been able to pull of a series devastating attacks. The war against Afghanistan and Iraq seems to have done absolutely nothing to stop Al Qaeda. It just gives the stupid right-wing Bush supporters a (very) false sense of security that they have a strong and effective ruler, and that killing people in a far away land will actually protect them from men with box cutters and the will to kill and die.

It is a very American, or Western, idea that things like terrorism can be over come with military might. They can't. Pure and simple.

The idea of the marches has nothing to do with defeating Al Qaeda. It is about support and solidarity. These things are going to happen. It is how we as a society come together, instead of hiding away in our homes behind a re-enforced door and sub-machine gun (hoping that Al Qaeda form a country we can invade), that is important.

ShaneHogan

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
Guantanamo Bay is full of people who may have killed thousands by now.

So is Dublin city centre. In fact, I may have killed someone by now. Your anti-lefty sentiments may have driven you to killing some trendy lefty anti-Bush protestor.

Interment without trial is the best way to encourage terrorism. It happened in the North in the 70's and in Israel/Palestine more recently. If we are going to start imprisoning those who may be thinking about doing something wrong, we may as well just give up now and hand back the keys of the world.

Victor

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
Yes, it has been highly effective. Guantanamo Bay is full of people who may have killed thousands by now.

Just as well all those US Marines are kept occupied then.

Senor_Fudge

lol

chill

At a time when so many have been brutally murdered this is a contemptable comment in my opinion and I admire the Spanish people tremendously for their incredible solidarity and willingness to get out on the streets and tell those murdering scum that they will not be beaten by terrorism.
Sadly we in Ireland do not have any of this kind of steel and it seems the same in Europe. We had better wake up to this attack on our freedom and our way of life and realise that it's not just America that is being targetted. We need to get together militarily and security wise and attack these terrorists with covert and deadly operations.

bonkey

Originally posted by chill
I admire the Spanish people tremendously for their incredible solidarity and willingness to get out on the streets and tell those murdering scum that they will not be beaten by terrorism.

I admire it as well. I admire any nation who takes a stance to say that brutal, unwanton violence of this nature is simply not acceptable.

We need to get together militarily and security wise and attack these terrorists with covert and deadly operations.

Oh. Guess brutal, unwanton violence isn't all that unacceptable then...its just a question of who does it, where and to whom.

jc

sovtek

Originally posted by chill
At a time when so many have been brutally murdered this is a contemptable comment in my opinion and I admire the Spanish people tremendously for their incredible solidarity and willingness to get out on the streets and tell those murdering scum that they will not be beaten by terrorism.

But I guess when 2 million people got out in Spain to protest another somewhat recent spate of killing they were all "unemployed derilicts".
Eight million of 'em this time around.
I assume you shared that same sentiment at the time?

gandalf

Well if I remember correctly one of the countries that had some of the largests turnouts in March's against the war was Spain. The vast majority of people did not want to take part in the war, their government ignored them and now the ordinary people have paid the price.

Personally I think if you feel strongly about any particular issue you have a right to express that in any peaceful manner that is available to you. And if alot of your peers feel the same then Mass Demonstrations are the way to go.

I love the way people come on here saying that these guys have to be dealt with etc. If only life was that simple. So far The Axis of Diesel has dealt with alot of people. Unfortunately alot of them are "collateral damage" who have sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles, husbands, wives and they will want to avenge those that have been taken from them. Then we have the illegal combatents in Cuba, how can a country that claims to respect freedom & democracy actually take part in such a Orwellian urdertaking? This is not a war against terrorism it's a war to grab more power and remove the freedoms from the ordinary man in the US.

BTW I love when people talk about defending your freedom and way of life by restricting your freedoms and changing your way of life. I guess that means the terrorists have already won.

Gandalf.

An Fear Aniar

[ This is not a war against terrorism it's a war to grab more power and remove the freedoms from the ordinary man in the US.

:rolleyes:

Tsk tsk, so cynical. How little you know the American people.

An Fear Aniar

[

However, this is not a black and white situation where one side must be right because the other is wrong. The right is equally blinkered in this regard, with many pro-US pundits (such as yourself Fear Aniar) happily going along with any US action regardless of European interests.

And unless you’re under any delusion Fear Aniar, we’re Europeans, not Americans; and while our interests may often overlap with the US you should not be so naive as to believe that they are the same thing.

Yes, I am Pro-US. I don't go along with "any" US action (e.g. Chile 74) but I think Bush has done absolutely the right thing.

I certainly don't feel European. To me, Ireland is more an American state, culturally and in spirit; we just get our funding from the the European former-colonial powers.

BlitzKrieg

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
:rolleyes:

Tsk tsk, so cynical. How little you know the American people.

-but this the american government...not the people. Whom it seems to have failed in representing...

BlitzKrieg

question: We are dealing with terrorism. Tell me when has full on military action solved a terorist situation?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
Yes, I am Pro-US. I don't go along with "any" US action (e.g. Chile 74) but I think Bush has done absolutely the right thing.

So what’s your recourse if you don't go along with a US action?

I certainly don't feel European. To me, Ireland is more an American state, culturally and in spirit; we just get our funding from the the European former-colonial powers.

You did strike me as someone who wanted us all to become new Puerto Ricans, all right...

Your analysis is rather deluded (probably because, like many, you have relatives in the US). Ireland’s economic system is more in tune with the Keynesian models of the other European states. We are represented politically (and some may say inordinately so), through our elected representatives and appointees. Our trade is heavily Euro-centric.

So essentially, like it or not, or political and economic interests are more closely aligned to Europe than to the US. Not always, but more often than not by a long stretch.

And so I would have felt that we are more a European state, culturally and in spirit; we just get our tourists from the neo-colonial power.

Zombrex

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
:rolleyes:

Tsk tsk, so cynical. How little you know the American people.

Yeah because Iraq has soooo much to do with fighting Al Queda.

Tsk tsk, so naive :rolleyes:

seamus

Originally posted by BlitzKrieg
question: We are dealing with terrorism. Tell me when has full on military action solved a terorist situation?

Well, there was a little terrorist action around this time in 1916 which had a battleship firing shots from the Liffey........
That "terrorist situation" was rather quickly crushed, but if you're actually asking "When has full-on military action completely eliminated a terrorist threat?", I can't say. I would believe that it can't. Terrorist organisations such as Al-Queda and the IRA have no lands to invade, no cities to bomb, and the more force you use against them, the more 'freedom fighters' join their opressed cause.....

sovtek

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
I certainly don't feel European. To me, Ireland is more an American state, culturally and in spirit; we just get our funding from the the European former-colonial powers.

When's the last time America pumped billions of €'s to build infrastructure and when did you last vote in an American election or referendum?

monument

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
So, over to them. How would they deal with Al Qaeda.

I for one would not have caused the problems which resulted in their cause.

monument

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar

---

[ This is not a war against terrorism it's a war to grab more power and remove the freedoms from the ordinary man in the US.

---

:rolleyes:

Tsk tsk, so cynical. How little you know the American people.

There freedoms being removed is how the people I've talked to in the US feel.

Victor

Originally posted by seamus
Well, there was a little terrorist action around this time in 1916 which had a battleship firing shots from the Liffey........

Well, it was only a gun boat and well it made more of a problem than it solved.

bug

Oh. Guess brutal, unwanton violence isn't all that unacceptable then...its just a question of who does it, where and to whom.

yes that seems to be the general western government consensus, we can cluster bomb the f*k out of you, but dont you dare retaliate...

to answer the original posters question, I definitley wouldnt call myself a leftist, but I would have to say there isnt much we can do unless the americans/brits suddenly, miraculously stopped meddling in middleastern affairs and pulled out. But thats not going to happen, so we can sit by and watch it all unfold, the cycle of violence that it is, and.. dodge the bombs.