Marching against Al Qaeda - what a joke

Zombrex

Originally posted by xm15e3
There aren't people going hungry in the US for reasons other than their, or their parents, chosen life style.

Chosen life style?? What the hell do you mean by that??

Zombrex

Originally posted by xm15e3

Originally posted by Wicknight
You have actually been to the USA right??


You could say I know something about the place. And your right, there are plenty of Americans living under the "poverty level" according to the US census, who actually own two TVs and a DVD player. A majority of them also smoke more than a pack a day, at $4.00 a pack no less.

Funny I must have missed the part in the census that dealt with DVD players. :rolleyes:

I am assuming by your in depth economic knowledge that poverty is down to "life-style" and smoking:dunno:, that you actually have no idea what you are talking about.

Nice troll. Back to thread topic ... :rolleyes:

xm15e3

Originally posted by Wicknight
Funny I must have missed the part in the census that dealt with DVD players. :rolleyes:

I am assuming by your in depth economic knowledge that poverty is down to "life-style" and smoking:dunno:, that you actually have no idea what you are talking about.

Nice troll. Back to thread topic ... :rolleyes:

So living in Ireland makes you an expert on US poverty?

bizmark

Sure there are homeless, most are either voluntary or are those that should be institutionalized.

Lol that reminds me of a Babylon 5 episodes where a propaganda agent starts blowing on about how great earth is and any problems are because the people "chouse" to be like that or are mentally disturbed

Zombrex

Originally posted by xm15e3
but it is a very comfotable place to be poor.

Originally posted by xm15e3
So living in Ireland makes you an expert on US poverty?

No, I don't claim to be an expert.

I do have family in the States though, and I have been there many times. I have actually been to the inner cities, seen the run down slums of Chicago and Miami. I have read about the doctors that train in inner city Detroit because it is the best place to equip them to work in 3rd world Africa. And about the trend of the large companies such as GM to down sizing their American factories, laying off loyal work forces and devastating entire communities (is that what you mean by "life style choices" )

And oh yes, I read the government published census that claim 14 million people live in “severe poverty”. (that is their income is below half the poverty line). I don't think they are buying expensive home theatre equipment.

I don't claim to be an expert, but you would have to be blind or incredible naive to even suggest that there is no real poverty in the USA, or that the only hungry people are drug addicts.

Anyway .. unless you actually have anything to back up your statements, back to the topic...

An Fear Aniar

Originally posted by bonkey

Do you realise, for example, that not a single emergence of socialism and/or communism has managed to fall of its own accord in teh 20th century? That - without exception - every single one's demise involved the US.

So Kruschev was just kidding when he said "we will bury you"? Silly us.....

BTW, just to re-cap, Israel has been repeatedly attacked by its Arab neighbours without provocation. Equating the situation to Irish freedom fighters from centuries past is plain wrong. By your reasoning the complete destruction of the state of israel would be totally justified - that's the logical conclusion to what you've said.

I thought the human race had moved on a little, obviously some of us have yet to catch up.

:rolleyes:

*sigh* it's like being back in the Student's Union.

bonkey

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
So Kruschev was just kidding when he said "we will bury you"? Silly us.....

well, if you put it in context, you might realise what I was saying.

For a start...if someone is pushing you around, and you want to try and make them back down....whats the first thing you'd say??? "Please leave me alone, I'm just a little old defenceless person", or "Back off before I bury you"???

BTW, just to re-cap, Israel has been repeatedly attacked by its Arab neighbours without provocation.

Just like the English occupiers of Ireland were frequently attacked without provocation. As far as the locals in both cases are concerned, the only provocation necessary is "you are on stolen land that you took from us".

I'm not saying they're right...just that the "without provocation" argument is one of the biggest straw men persistant today.

By your reasoning the complete destruction of the state of israel would be totally justified - that's the logical conclusion to what you've said.

Thats not what I've said. What I've done is offered reasons why these people are behaving teh way they do. I don't happen to think they are right.....but I think that anyone who believes you can take a people's land, give it to someone else, and then not have resentment boiling over into violence is kidding themselves.

jc

bonkey

Originally posted by bizmark
Lol that reminds me of a Babylon 5 episodes where a propaganda agent starts blowing on about how great earth is and any problems are because the people "chouse" to be like that or are mentally disturbed

Exactly what I was thinking of when I made the propaganda comment....

I'm guessing that next xme will try telling us that the only real unemployed are those who choose to be.....

jc

BuffyBot

Poor in America means having only 1 TV and no DVD player

What a bizarre thing to say. American has quite it's fair share of those who are poor, as someone else has demonstrated. I'm quite sure most of them did not choose to be that way - whatever stuff you've been hearing, you really need to examine it more.

muffen

Just read through this thread, and I must say I found it slightly amusing.

Everyone in this thread seems to have reasonable opinions, except for xm15e3 and An Fear Aniar. They are just posting random junk that appears to have no purpose whatsoever... and after pretty much everyone has corrected their sometimes insane statements (like poor in the US means you only have one TV.. I didn't know wether to cry or laugh when I read that), they manage to come up with even more of them.

Whats the point of arguing against people who aren't even listening to you?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
I thought the human race had moved on a little, obviously some of us have yet to catch up.

*sigh* it's like being back in the Student's Union.

You seem to have a rather polarised view, because you appear so obsessed with returning to the polls of college politics, that you seem unable to be critical of anything on the right wing of the spectrum. It makes you as blinkered as those you are caricaturing. You are the other caricature.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by xm15e3
So living in Ireland makes you an expert on US poverty?

Well, apparantly living in the US makes you an expert on World democracy.

MeatProduct

Can some "enlightened" individual explain to me how killing people achieves peace? 3000 were killed in America on 11 September. A conservative estimate of 5000 were consequently killed in Afghanistan. How did that help peace? All it achieved was more destroyed families, more children living in terror. That's it.

If people think that America can't kill Bin Laden at any time then it's time to step through the looking glass. Bin Laden is alive because he serves a purpose: to instil fear into the American public (and now the European public) so that more and more civil liberties can be taken away by our governments. Look at the Patriot act! It's an assault in freedom itself!
If anyone can refute this please do so with fact and not what you heard on NBC or what your dad said.

Nick

PS: I hope people still don't think Bin Laden is responsible for September 11.

BattleBoar

Originally posted by MeatProduct
PS: I hope people still don't think Bin Laden is responsible for September 11.

...Not another one.... :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1473513#post1473513

gandalf

Originally posted by An Fear Aniar
I thought the human race had moved on a little, obviously some of us have yet to catch up.

:rolleyes:

*sigh* it's like being back in the Student's Union.

And you were doing so well until you threw these comments in.

Please make your point but do not personalise the response in the form of insults. Firstly if you do then the majority will feel that you are getting desparate in trying to get your point across and I may have to ban you for personal abuse.

If you think I am being unfair then please PM me or take it up with the Admins in the Feedback section.

Gandalf.

MeatProduct

Originally posted by BattleBoar
...Not another one.... :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1473513#post1473513

Dear BattleBoar,

Have you looked at all the evidence regarding 11/9? If you have I don't see how you can suppose to think that Bin Laden was responsible for those attacks. I don't want any personal attacks here, just a forum for discussion using facts. If you wish I can post facts that prove 11/9 is not what we are told.

You mentioned that this kind of attack has never happened before. Please do look in the history books and research facts. The attacks on Pearl Harbour, the assassination of JFK, the war in Vietnam can all be attributed to the US government and those with the money.

I am will to post facts regarding all of these. Please do not insult me, it is not productive. Simply provide fact and evidence.

Thank you,

Nick

mr_angry

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Well, apparantly living in the US makes you an expert on World democracy.

Haha. Comeback of the year-so-far...

monument

Originally posted by xm15e3
Where on earth did you get that from? The only people starving in America are teenage girls from middle class families with eating disorders.

Hmm... I dont know, reading the Guardian, and a visit to the US.

Originally published in full by the Guardian
Long queue at drive-in soup kitchen

George Bush's America, the wealthiest nation in history, faces a growing poverty crisis. In the first of a three-part series Julian Borger takes the pulse of the US with elections just a year away

Monday November 3, 2003
The Guardian

The free food is handed out at nine, but the queue starts forming hours earlier. By dawn, there is a line of cars stretching half a mile back. In Logan, it is what passes for rush hour - a traffic jam driven by poverty and hunger.

The cars come out of the Ohio hills in all shapes and sizes, from the old jalopies of the chronically poor, to the newer, sleeker models of the new members of the club, who only months ago considered themselves middle class, before jobs and their retirement funds evaporated.

Well worth reading it all, continues at...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1076591,00.html

bonkey

Originally posted by MeatProduct
Simply provide fact and evidence.

Practice what you preach?

jc

Zombrex

Originally posted by BattleBoar
...Not another one.... :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1473513#post1473513

lol

MeatProduct

Originally posted by bonkey
Practice what you preach?

jc

Dear Bdonkey,

As I stated I said that I would and I have been gathering the evidence for the past 20 minutes to post it here.

BattleBoar

Originally posted by MeatProduct
Dear BattleBoar,

Have you looked at all the evidence regarding 11/9? If you have I don't see how you can suppose to think that Bin Laden was responsible for those attacks. I don't want any personal attacks here, just a forum for discussion using facts. If you wish I can post facts that prove 11/9 is not what we are told.

You mentioned that this kind of attack has never happened before. Please do look in the history books and research facts. The attacks on Pearl Harbour, the assassination of JFK, the war in Vietnam can all be attributed to the US government and those with the money.

I am will to post facts regarding all of these. Please do not insult me, it is not productive. Simply provide fact and evidence.

Thank you,

Nick

Dear MeatProduct,

What I posted was not a personal insult, more like a criticism of your position. Please answer the following:

1. Did you have a preconceived bias to believe that the US government was culpible in the attacks?

2. Did you see the tape where Osama bin Laden said:

We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower.

We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all.

...Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for.

We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower.

We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all.

...Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for.

3. Do you believe that American pilots were flying the zeros that bombed the ships in pearl harbour and/or the American government asked Japan to attack them? If so, please read this.

4. Do you think that if you're going to plan an attack on Pearl Harbour to get the public to back entering WWII, you mightn't want to have half of your pacific fleet IN the harbor when the attack occured?

5. Is the Gulf of Tonkin in US coastal waters?

6. You seem to believe you know who killed JFK. So who did it?

I realise it's usually pretty pointless to argue with conspiracy theorists, because no matter what evidence is produced, there are some who will always believe what they want to, just like creationists. So the last question is, just out of curiousity, who do you think perpetrated September 11th, the CIA in cahoots with the Bush administration, or Mossad in cahoots with rich Jewish businessmen?

bonkey

Originally posted by MeatProduct
As I stated I said that I would

Yes, you did.

You offered to supply it if requested, whilst criticising someone else for making a comment about your stance without evidence.

You didn't just ask if they could provide it, as you suggested they do with you...you criticised them for having made a comment without supplying the facts.

So I will repeat myself. Practice what you preach. If you wish to criticise anyone, make sure it isn't for somethign you are doing yourself.

jc

MeatProduct

Problems with 9/11

Of the 19 named terrorists onboard flights 11, 175, 77 and 93 seven of them were still alive and quite shocked to discover that they had been involved in suicidal attacks on the US
These very much alive "terrorists" are: Abdulaziz Alomari, Wail al-Shehri, Marwan al-Shehhi, Khalid al-Midhar, Nawaf al-Hamzi, Salem al-Hamzi, Saeed al-Ghamdi

Of these 19 one had died the year previously.

There have been many indicators of prior knowledge of the attacks yet the US authorities did nothing about them:
Extensive trading in the stock market of American Airlines stocks (no other airlines stocks were anything near as active) as well as increased trading in the stocks of the insurers of the World Trade Towers.
A number of websites also warned of the attacks months before they happened.

Why did it take NORAD and the FAA so long to react to the terrorist threat? As per normal FAA regulations if contact is lost with a pilot the air traffic controller attempts to make contact with said pilot. If there is not a response within 2 minutes then fighter jets are scrambled. The jets, once scrambled, take two and a half minutes to take off and get to 29,000 feet. Yet there was a known problem with Flight 77 at 08:50 (lost contact with the pilot) but no jets were in the air until 9:27. Why?

The Pentagon has surface-to-air missiles as a last line of defence. Why were these not activated when Flight 77 enter the no-fly zone around the Pentagon?

This is just a touch of what went on with 9/11. There is plenty more that I would be willing to write about here. I would recommend reading the book:” Alice in wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster".

Nick

MeatProduct

Bdonkey,

That's fair.

Nick

sovtek

Originally posted by MeatProduct
Problems with 9/11

Of the 19 named terrorists onboard flights 11, 175, 77 and 93 seven of them were still alive and quite shocked to discover that they had been involved in suicidal attacks on the US
These very much alive "terrorists" are: Abdulaziz Alomari, Wail al-Shehri, Marwan al-Shehhi, Khalid al-Midhar, Nawaf al-Hamzi, Salem al-Hamzi, Saeed al-Ghamdi

Of these 19 one had died the year previously.

Any links for that?

MeatProduct

Originally posted by sovtek
Any links for that?

http://www.welfarestate.com/911/

http://members.fortunecity.com/911/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm

Nick

MeatProduct

Media manipulation is alive and well. We didn't see news about a number of these terrorists still being alive all over the news channels. The media was very quick to air who these people were but quickly shutup when they were so utterly wrong.

An Fear Aniar

Originally posted by MeatProduct
Media manipulation is alive and well. We didn't see news about a number of these terrorists still being alive all over the news channels. The media was very quick to air who these people were but quickly shutup when they were so utterly wrong.

Oh dear!!

I wonder how many of these people are wandering about out there?

sceptre

Originally posted by xm15e3
The left hates Pinochet only because their team lost. Che Guevara was a much more violent individual

I've never been a fan of Ernesto Lynch-Guevara either.