[articles] The Provos and the Docks

mike65

I thought I'd start a fresh thread....

This from "de paper" March 9th

Toaiseach Bertie Ahern tonight backed his Justice Minister’s claim that the IRA is involved in criminal activity at Dublin Port.

Mr Ahern shrugged off suggestions that Michael McDowell’s allegation was inspired by upcoming local elections and insisted republicans had serious questions to answer.

“There’s been a number of serious things over the last 12 months that links in paramilitary and criminal issues and that’s what the minister is saying,” he said.

“I don’t want it either to be just rolled over, this issue, where people are saying it’s electioneering.

“It’s not electioneering, there’s a serious issue.

“He’s dealing actively with files that do show that there’s criminality and that’s what he’s talking about in the docks.”

This from Sunday Times today

AN IRA commander, suspected of controlling crime and racketeering in Dublin port, has been arrested in a garda sting operation. The capture of the Belfast-based terrorist was the trigger for Michael McDowell’s recent scathing attacks on Sinn Fein’s links to crime.

The convicted IRA killer was arrested last month after a year-long garda operation, codenamed Raccoon, set up to smash robberies at Dublin port orchestrated by criminals on behalf of the IRA.

He was under surveillance as he arrived at a meeting in a cafe in Swords, north Dublin, four weeks ago. He met with the IRA’s Dublin leader and a criminal believed to have set up the theft of goods delivered to the port.

All three men were arrested and questioned. They were released without charge but a file has been sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).

The arrest of the key republican will prove an embarrassment for Sinn Fein, which has rejected the justice minister’s attacks. Last weekend, McDowell claimed Sinn Fein members from Northern Ireland were involved in organising “criminal heists” in Dublin port.

The IRA terrorist is also understood to be a member of Sinn Fein. He was jailed for life for murdering a garda but was released under the Good Friday Agreement. The southern brigade leader he was with is also prominent in republican circles: he is believed to be the IRA Officer Commanding in Dublin since January, when his predecessor was stood down for “freelancing” on robberies.

Garda sources said Operation Raccoon was one of five current investigations into racketeering and fraud involving prominent figures in the republican movement:

The garda national bureau of fraud investigations has launched a huge inquiry into a €3m revenue tax scam, involving a number of senior republicans. One former Sinn Fein candidate was among those arrested in connection with the inquiry.

British and Irish police are co-operating on an investigation into a property company in Britain that is believed be a front for a member of the IRA’s army council. The investigation is being led by police in Manchester and Scotland Yard.

Gardai are still investigating Martin Ferris, the Sinn Fein TD for Kerry North. He was arrested in connection with the abduction of a local drug dealer. The DPP has yet to decide whether he should be prosecuted.

The Criminal Assets Bureau is pursuing Anthony Sloan, a former IRA prison escapee, for €170,000 on unpaid taxes and interest. It claims Sloan owes the money for work as a taxi driver.

The latest arrests have confirmed the suspicions of security forces that the IRA and criminals are co-operating on the lucrative container robberies at Dublin port. They will also fuel the escalating war of words between the government and Sinn Fein.

McDowell’s salvo was the latest in a litany of attacks on Gerry Adams’ party, in advance of the local and European elections. Bertie Ahern, the taoiseach, launched the assault last month when he said that he always assumed Gerry Adams was in the IRA, and backed up McDowell’s claims that Sinn Fein was involved in crime.

The IRA’s involvement in punishment beatings, racketeering and crime is likely to dominate the campaign for the local elections on June 11. Fianna Fail sources said Sinn Fein, expected to repeat its success in the general election two years ago, is a threat to the party in certain Dublin constituencies.

Martin Mansergh, Fianna Fail senator and former taoiseach’s adviser, said Ahern’s outspoken stance on Sinn Fein was more to do with restoring government in Northern Ireland. “The situation is different from what it was. Two years ago, we were at an impasse and a great deal of frustration at the impasse.

“There is a feeling that more than enough time was given to making progress. Continuing prime facie evidence of different activities does make it difficult to get government going again.”

Another piece here which I'll link -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-1037112,00.html

Mike.

Cork

How much revenue is being lost to the Irish exchequer by such rackets?

Such criminality cannot be justified.

I think - I let my feelings known already on racketeering. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with €€,$$ and ££.

thesecret7

It looks like the Sinn Fein smoke screen isnt working anymore. Bertie has came out and name Gerry Adams as being on the IRA council. How can people vote for someone like him when he was giving the thumbs up to bombs goining off. Sinn Fein are terrorists and make a joke of Irish democracy.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
Such criminality cannot be justified.

No criminality can be justified.

jc

Johnny 5

Originally posted by thesecret7
It looks like the Sinn Fein smoke screen isnt working anymore. Bertie has came out and name Gerry Adams as being on the IRA council. How can people vote for someone like him when he was giving the thumbs up to bombs goining off. Sinn Fein are terrorists and make a joke of Irish democracy.

As opposed to running the same vote twice in order to gain a more favourable outcome.

Victor

Originally posted by thesecret7
Bertie has came out and name Gerry Adams as being on the IRA council.

I think it was more along the lines of the Taoiseach saying he assumed Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA all along.

Originally posted by Johnny 5
As opposed to running the same vote twice in order to gain a more favourable outcome.

I assume you are referring to the Nice referendum.
People are entitled to democratically change their minds.
And FF made no secret that they were going to have another referendum on that subject.

Maybe we should have a referendum on banning people from changing their mind...
doubt that it would pass, no matter how many times it was run.

Sparks

Originally posted by Earthman
I assume you are referring to the Nice referendum.
People are entitled to democratically change their minds.

There's a difference between changing your mind and being told that your current opinion is considered unwise and therefore you are obliged to make your mind up again....

I disagree as you have your own free will when casting your secret ballot whilst expressing your right to change your own mind.

The people who voted in that second ballot were not moonies you know, they were Irish citizens

Sparks

Originally posted by Earthman
The people who voted in that second ballot were not moonies you know, they were Irish citizens

Ay, but not terribly well-informed ones, through no fault of their own. Did anyone mention the Article 133/GATS issues on the government side for the second referendum?

Zombrex

Originally posted by Johnny 5
As opposed to running the same vote twice in order to gain a more favourable outcome.

Yeah because that is the same thing :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Sparks
Ay, but not terribly well-informed ones, through no fault of their own. Did anyone mention the Article 133/GATS issues on the government side for the second referendum?

Who are you to say that people are ill informed??
Unless you can read their minds.

I find anyone dissing people without full knowledge of how they formed their opinions or what was important to them , most disconcerting:rolleyes:

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

But they will have to hold further E.U referenda from time to time, depending on what is decided.

The option for people to further change their mind on the direction of our E.U membership hasn't gone away.

And then of course theres elections this summer and in 2007 or thereabouts.
This is going off topic /me blocks the drift.

markomac316

Some Sinn Fein members are connected to the I.R.A have been in the I.R.A and are still involved in it but Gerry Adams isnt. Every political party in the North of Ireland will have a member somewhere in it who was/is involved in a paramiliatary. To say it is just Sinn Fein/I.R.A its just ridicilius.

Also the I.R.A have to get money from somewhere since its obvious that a lot of their support has went bye bye cause they are living in the free state.

And if you want to talk about paramilitary activities talk about the Catholic priests house getting fire bombed by members of loyalist paras or the arms find which was going to loyalist paras.

Victor

Originally posted by markomac316
but Gerry Adams isnt.

You say that quite authoritively. Why has Adams in the past claimed he was in the IRA?

Originally posted by markomac316
Also the I.R.A have to get money from somewhere since its obvious that a lot of their support has went bye bye cause they are living in the free state.

I just can't understand what you are trying to say here. Why do they "have to get money"? When was the "free state" abolished?

Originally posted by markomac316
And if you want to talk about paramilitary activities talk about the Catholic priests house getting fire bombed by members of loyalist paras or the arms find which was going to loyalist paras.

And what has this to do with Dublin Port?

bonkey

Originally posted by markomac316
To say it is just Sinn Fein/I.R.A its just ridicilius.

Who has said this?

Also the I.R.A have to get money from somewhere since its obvious that a lot of their support has went bye bye cause they are living in the free state.

Maybe I'm mistaking your intent, but that sounds suspiciously like a justification for why they do this.

If so, then consider that drug addicts need to get money to satisfy their illegal activities. Often that results in them turning to crime. Should we accept that as some sort of justification for their crimes as well?

Also, unless you can show that he IRA only turned to this activity after other forms of support went away, your reasoning wouldn't hold much water anyway, regardless of whether it is a justification or not.

And if you want to talk about paramilitary activities talk about the Catholic priests house getting fire bombed by members of loyalist paras or the arms find which was going to loyalist paras.

No.

If you want to talk about that, then you go and start a thread on it. But don't come in here suggesting that people shouldn't be discussing what they want to, but rather what you think is more important.

jc

markomac316

Gerry Adams has never stated he was part of the I.R.A.

Well maybe if the government legalised it then it would cut it out and the taxes on it could be put to good use. Give a solution to your problem, not a problem to your problem.

Victor

Originally posted by markomac316
Gerry Adams has never stated he was part of the I.R.A.

But had previously claimed he was in? Which should we believe?

Originally posted by markomac316
Well maybe if the government legalised it then it would cut it out and the taxes on it could be put to good use.

Get a cut of what? IRA racketeering money?

markomac316

Show me where he has stated it.

And no I meant it would cut out people getting robbed for it and also cut out the I.R.A dealing it in. And that way it can be controlled, and the government can use the tax they recieve from it to good use.

Victor

Originally posted by markomac316
And no I meant it would cut out people getting robbed for it and also cut out the I.R.A dealing it in. And that way it can be controlled, and the government can use the tax they recieve from it to good use.

What is "it"?

AmenToThat

I have just gone through that article and one thing in particular cought my attention!
No one has been convicted in a court of law of the crimes that are discussed in the article.
This doesnt seem to bother those who have responded in this thread though, is it a case where you except as gospel an article if it neatly fits with what you believe or indeed want to beleive?

Cork

Originally posted by AmenToThat

This doesnt seem to bother those who have responded in this thread though, is it a case where you except as gospel an article if it neatly fits with what you believe or indeed want to beleive?

It is not just the article. THe article merely backs up statements made by An Taoiseach & the Minister for Justice.

Is it so unbelievable that an organisation like the IRA are not involved in racketeering?

This from an organisation that was involved Adare post office hold-up?

monument

"AN IRA commander, suspected of controlling crime and racketeering in Dublin port, has been arrested in a garda sting operation."

One would have to note that this was a very common thing in the past, close to elections members of SF, or even suspected members of the IRA, been arrested with out proof and later released with on charge, or dismiss in court.

I’m not saying it’s impossible of the IRA or people named to be involved, I’m just saying it’s currently not fact.

Villain

Lads, paper never refused ink, I'm not saying this isn't happening at all, but I think we should be careful in acting as Judge and Jury and saying these people are guilty.

Recently Michael McDowell made statements about Sinn Fein, which Sinn Fein responded by saying put up or shut!. He did neither.

At the Green Party's conference they made statements about PD's supporters holding onto re-zoned land, the PD's told the Greens to put or shut up.

See where I'm going, everyone is banding accusations around but no-one is yet to prove anything.

It's all speculation and I think FF are trying to divert attention from whats going on in th tribunal, Mary O'Rourke says the meeting between Gilmartin and several TD's that Bertie says didn't happen did in fact take place. She's meant to be willing to go to the tribunal to state as much also. So I think FF should worry about the corruption closer to home than making wild accusations towards Sinn Fein.

Two points here.
Holding onto zoned land irrespective of party affiliation is perfectly legal ,racketeering involving robbery and or extortion most definitely is not.

Secondly it was and is Michael McDowell who has been at the forefront of the accusations against Sinn Féin.
He is not and never has been a member of Fianna Fáil.

Ahern only commented when pushed to comment and later to point out that as Minister for Justice, McDowell is actively dealing with files in relation to racketeering in the port, so he has some grounding for his beliefs.

Its true to say that, no certainty can be gained on this untill the Dpp recommends prosecutions and the matter goes before the courts.

That said its highly damaging to Sinn Féin and in normal circumstances, if it involved members of any party other than Sinn Féin,it would merit an open transparent party inquiry with disiplinary actions meeted out if necessary.

Villain

Originally posted by Earthman
Two points here.
Holding onto zoned land irrespective of party affiliation is perfectly legal ,racketeering involving robbery and or extortion most definitely is not.

Secondly it was and is Michael McDowell who has been at the forefront of the accusations against Sinn Féin.
He is not and never has been a member of Fianna Fáil.

Ahern only commented when pushed to comment and later to point out that as Minister for Justice, McDowell is actively dealing with files in relation to racketeering in the port, so he has some grounding for his beliefs.

Its true to say that, no certainty can be gained on this untill the Dpp recommends prosecutions and the matter goes before the courts.

That said its highly damaging to Sinn Féin and in normal circumstances, if it involved members of any party other than Sinn Féin,it would merit an open transparent party inquiry with disiplinary actions meeted out if necessary.

I was merely pointing out that the PDS were asked to put or shut and they didn't and they then asked the Green's to do the same, I wasn't looking to get into a debate about the issue.

The Taoiseach has spoken several times about Sinn Fein, he's wasn't pushed to comment to choose to.

It's not as damaging as whats coming out in the Tribunal about FF!!

Deathtobertie

Originally posted by Cork
How much revenue is being lost to the Irish exchequer by such rackets?

Such criminality cannot be justified.

I think - I let my feelings known already on racketeering. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with €€,$$ and ££.

Do I hear Cork plead for "due process" in this case? (In light of the fact that no charges have in fact been proved)

Cork nearly had a wobbler attack when a member of Fianna Fail was being accused of hit and run a while ago on these pages.

Is it a case of due process for Fianna Fail and lets slander the hell out of sinn fein without a single charge being pressed against anybody, let alone Sinn Fein.

That kind of attempted political assassination was used by the deposed spanish government when they tried to pin the train bombings on ETA to try and diminish the support of the basque separatist political parties. It didn't work for them and it won't work for bertie and his fatcats either.

Blithering Bertie is up to his usual mudslinging that he does whenver there is a bit of heat on him or his party(ie corruption allegations at the tribunal) He is trying to whip up a media storm that will push his parties alledged wrongdoings onto page 2 of the papers.


Fianna Fail have acted disgracefully by talking theses alledged crimes up in the media. It is blatant electioneering. If they had any sure proof or evidence surely Fianna Fail would have kept it under wraps until they could definitively hammer Sinn Fein over the head with it

I am sure these allegations will never be heard of again after the elections.

Originally posted by irish1

It's not as damaging as whats coming out in the Tribunal about FF!!

I think you'll find though that members of FF who are involved in corruption and found to be involved via the tribunal are thrown out of that party.

Does Sinn Féin throw anyone out that say was convicted of a crime?

See what I'm saying? Different standards.

Villain

Originally posted by Earthman
See what I'm saying? Different standards.

Different party's, people have served there time for previous crimes.


Bertie and a lot of other ministers are alleged to have met Gilmartin have they been thrown out of the party???

Cork

If those members of SF named as on the IRA army council feel so agrieved - they can sue the newspaper.

Is it hard to believe that an organisation like the IRA are not involved in racketeering?

Was it not involved in the Post Office raid in Adare??

Does Sinn Féin throw anyone out that say was convicted of a crime?

No they don't.

Racketeering & punishment beatings have to stop. I hope that SF/IRA gets this message. Let them take that message back to their army council.