Sinn Fein saves the world

Mighty_Mouse

are you saying that SF policies are the same as FF?

Valentia

Well you said SF had no policies. I was just letting you know they actually do have quite extensive policies on a wide range of areas.

No, Mighty_Mouse, please try to understand, and this is really crucial if you want to understand Sinn Féin, that just because they put a list of policies on their web site means shag all. Read my previous post to see why I say what I do.

How can a party who has murderers as members, are involved in organised crime, kneecap young men as punishment that they feel they have the authority to dish out even dare to talk about racism or human rights?

I am seriously on the left with my politics but Sinn Féin are more right wing than left IMO. Now that I've said that it doesn't look right in print! No, the shinners are neither left nor right. They are whatever they think people want them to be on any given day or issue.

Total hypocrites! And the more Sinn Féin bashing threads the better, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

Villain

Originally posted by Valentia

How can a party who has murderers as members, are involved in organised crime, kneecap young men as punishment that they feel they have the authority to dish out even dare to talk about racism or human rights?

Proof???

Don't go throwing accusations around if your not going to back them up.

Your entitled to your opinion but your not entitled to make accusations without proof.

I'm really fed up of people making accusations without any proof, its shows ignorance on the posters part.

Valentia

You don't seem to want to comment on the responses you got to the reamark you made about Ferris

Jazus give us a chance will ya

I think it should be fairly clear from my previous posts why I have expressed my views. I think it's an extraordinary thing to equate "topping the poll" with intelligence. Some of the biggest morons in the country have topped the poll. I have often said that Fianna Fáil could unload a lorry load of babies with pitchforks on O'Connell bridge, throw them in the Liffey and people would still vote for them.

What I'm trying to say is that as a race of people we must be one of the most gullable. How else can you explain the Fianna Fáil dominance. Sinn Féin are working on the same premis: "Say it and people will believe it"

As for Ferris. Have you ever seen him trying to make a point on telly. He starts off great because he has learned a few sentances off by heart. Then when questioned it's clear that he hasn't a clue what he is talking about. That's one of the problems with the shinners modus operandi, they need people who can be coached and than chant the mantra without getting flustered. Martin, cant hack it but sure with a bit more training he'll be alright!

Mighty_Mouse

and this is really crucial if you want to understand Sinn Féin, that just because they put a list of policies on their web site means shag all.Read my previous post to see why I say what I do

There policies mean shag all. Is it your previous argument about SF targeting working class areas for votes? the power struggle? they don't really mean what they say in their policies ... bandwagon...?

SF actively work in working class areas for several reasons. Many of the members of SF originate from working class areas (especially in NI - catholics no civil rights etc etc ). So the working class areas is where the party originates from.
They're also socialists which leads them to a focus on rights for the poor, disadvantaged etc

The Power Struggle - every party wants power in order to make changes in line with their own agenda. I would'nt see SF as any different. Whats the point in a political party if you dont aspire to power

don't really mean what they say in their policies ... bandwagon - SF policies are very consistent down through the years. Again its a focus on the working class, disadvantaged, health care , education, womens rights etc etc

How can a party who has murderers as members, are involved in organised crime, kneecap young men as punishment that they feel they have the authority to dish out even dare to talk about racism or human rights?

Some members of SF have backgrounds in the IRA and the civil rights movement in NI. I think many members of SF are in the best position to sympatise with refugees to this country, and those members of our society that are discriminated against. Their autority to speak on human rights comes from 1) being a politial party 2) having experience of struggling for human rights in NI

I am seriously on the left with my politics but Sinn Féin are more right wing than left IMO. Now that I've said that it doesn't look right in print! No, the shinners are neither left nor right.

Seems your confused. They're Left

They are whatever they think people want them to be on any given day or issue.

Again one of the things thats appealing about SF is their consistancy

cruiserweight

one of the things thats appealing about SF is their consistancy

It is some of the things that they are involved in consistantly that turn people against SF. For example bombings, organised crime etc

Mighty_Mouse

That's one of the problems with the shinners modus operandi, they need people who can be coached and than chant the mantra without getting flustered. Martin, cant hack it but sure with a bit more training he'll be alright!

Personally I think Martin Ferris is good in debate situations, answering quesitons etc etc
I honestly think SF tend to handle themselves better than most other political parties because more often than not their seaking from personal experience and in an honest straight-forward manner.

Villain

Originally posted by cruiserweight
It is some of the things that they are involved in consistantly that turn people against SF. For example bombings, organised crime etc

FFS cruiserweight, do you have an idea about SF and the IRA they are linked with???

Valentia

I'm really fed up of people making accusations without any proof, its shows ignorance on the posters part.

I'm sorry for you

You would want to have been living on Mars for the last forty years not yo know what I am saying is true. For Jazus sake I'm fed up of the stock response to anyone that says what I have said.

Cop on and open your eyes. Or have you another agenda? Get down off your ivory tower, take a stroll around the inner city, visit Derry and have a pint and a chat, although I have a funny feeling you already know what I am saying is true. Go on tell me you are not that naive.

Villain

Originally posted by Valentia
I'm sorry for you

You would want to have been living on Mars for the last forty years not yo know what I am saying is true. For Jazus sake I'm fed up of the stock response to anyone that says what I have said.

Cop on and open your eyes. Or have you another agenda? Get down off your ivory tower, take a stroll around the inner city, visit Derry and have a pint and a chat, although I have a funny feeling you already know what I am saying is true. Go on tell me you are not that naive.

I'm talking about the present, I'm not saying SF has not had links with such groups, but accusing SF of being involved in organised crime without proof is incorrect.

Valentia

accusing SF of being involved in organised crime without proof is incorrect.

Proof??????

egan007

what's this got to do with anti - racism?

Villain

Originally posted by egan007
what's this got to do with anti - racism?

Well the thread was in relation to Sinn Fein, he bought up SF's policies and tried to slate them and then went on to make accusations without proof, I'm simply stating the other side.

Oh and yes Valentia, Proof i.e. proving somthing to be true!!!

ishmael whale

The question of Sinn Fein’s links to the IRA have already been discussed in another thread. The essential position is that media sources have stated that the IRA Army Council includes senior Sinn Fein figures, and several prominent Sinn Fein figures have been convicted for terrorist offences. Similarly media sources and public statements by Government have linked the IRA to criminal activity. That is enough for, probably, most of us to be satisified that the links between the two organisations are close, and that the IRA is still engaged in illegal activities.

Sinn Fein supporters seem to expect that nothing short of public acknowledgement by the people concerned is enough to constitute proof. Fine, and there’s no point in going around in circles again. But SF supporters have to understand that maintaining this incredible position simply serves to increase the distrust that the rest of us have for Sinn Fein.

On the present topic, the Sinn Fein proposal is a clear attempt to grandstand. They are simply using race as an issue. There’s one interesting perspective on this in the Sunday Business Post.
http://thepost.ie/web/Sitemap/1.9did-364765587-pageUrl--2FThe-Newspaper-2FSundays-Paper-2FComment-and-Analysis.asp


If Sinn Fein are truly committed to the idea that people should be free from fear they might consider supporting the Labour party’s call for a cross party Dail motion calling for the IRA to disband.

http://212.2.162.45/news/story.asp?j=98096582&p=98x97z88&n=98097342

egan007

should you not start a debate on SF policies in a SF policies thread?

monument

Originally posted by Civilian_Target
Sinn Fein are the Irish BNP.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

BS

sovtek

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Very simple - in SA during aparthide >80% of the population had no say in the election of the government .
In NI (with the exception of blatent gerrymandering in the past) power can be transferred by democtatic vote...

True they didn't have the vote in SA but it wasn't just about votes was it?
As I understand it at least some of the issues both the IRA and Sinn Fein took on were endemic racism against catholics in NI.

Anyway agree that SF aren't racist, they don't care about the race, colour, creed or religion of the brits that they want out.

I thought they just wanted an independent state from the UK.

Villain

Originally posted by ishmael whale
Sinn Fein supporters seem to expect that nothing short of public acknowledgement by the people concerned is enough to constitute proof.

Well if this activity is so well known and the people that are doing it are so well known, why hasn't anyone been convicted???

I don't believe everything I read in a newspaper do you???

Proof is not an article written in a newspaper no other Party would accept that either but hey since its Sinn Fein what the hell:rolleyes:

ishmael whale

I don't believe everything I read in the paper. For example, I don't accept Gerry Adams' contention that he has never been member of the IRA.

Mighty_Mouse

I think theres a greater sense of self-confidence within the SF party going forward than protrayed in the post article.

As a political party is SF not entitled to have an opinion on every issues affecting Irish society.

This idea of being a "catch-all" party doesnt really fit either.As a growing political party is SF not entitled to develop policies on how every aspect of our society should develop.

Is it not refreshing that SF would adopt a anti-racism stance when (as this article puts it) their supporters might not necessarily agree.

IRA disbandment has been argued previously. I disagree with the sentiment expressed in the post article that the IRA are being kept alive out of politically necessity. At the moment the IRA are still in existance because hardline republicans have been pushed as far as they can go without similar movement by related parties in implementing the GFA

Valentia

Is it not refreshing that SF would adopt a anti-racism stance

Yes of course it is. I simply find it difficult to take from a party associated with voilence and intolerance.

I don't believe they are sincere, that's all.

monument

Originally posted by Valentia
Yes of course it is. I simply find it difficult to take from a party associated with voilence and intolerance.

I don't believe they are sincere, that's all.

They are in no way the most intolerance party in Ireland, in fact there is more intolerance both north and south towards them then they have of anyone.

That would include the intolerance to them (and ranting about them) here on this board. And remember, up north SF is the one who wants to share power.

As for parties associated with violence the current FF, PD government are associated with an illegal war, and a continuing illegal occupation.

Valentia

As for parties associated with violence the current FF, PD government are associated with an illegal war, and a continuing illegal occupation.

I agree with you there

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
From the SF Economy Document
Look at the start of the thing! It's so laced with propoganda. "transformation of the war economy". And then the rest of it is simply what everyone wants. What party doesn't want "business to grow"? So roll on some actually policies.

Nice website though, love the online shop. Hope someone gets me a picture of a terrorist for my birthday.

Well better than promising something then saying, "ah well no we won't achieve that"*

* Bertie on The Week In Politics 2 weeks ago when asked about the Party's promise to abolish waiting lists in their election manafesto!

Gearoid

I'm undecided on this one but for all those saying, "the IRA must disband before we can trust Sinn Fein" etc, you have to realise that if it was disbanded right now all the hardliners would start a new IRA and go back to war or join RIRA or CIRA, now seeing as it is about 8 years since the last IRA bombing, which would you prefer, a winding down existant but inactive IRA, or A disbanded one which spawns another 3 or 4 little harder to control ones?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Gearoid

Didn't hear of that, have you a link or anything?

monument

Originally posted by Gearoid
Didn't hear of that, have you a link or anything?

Wasnt it the CIRA??

Anyway, a Garda informant was apprently in the RIRA at the time of Omagh - if the below is true it's prittly sick...

"When White protested that people might get killed if there was no action on Dixon's intelligence that a bomb was being shipped across the border the same weekend as the Omagh atrocity, his superior reminded him that the Real IRA had failed to kill anyone in eight previous attacks that year"...

"Omagh agent claims Garda let bomb pass"
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nireland/story/0,11008,1066420,00.html

poneill

As a policy document its absolutely fine isn't it ? Parties must have policy documents.

FF have been publishing these for years and are not being accused of any untoward intent as a result