Mayday events.

ReefBreak

It appears that redflaremist's website has been getting some attention from the media:
http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=52917

Is it too late for me to sign up for the Garda riot squad? Can't think of a better way to spend a weekend than baton charge a bunch of violent anarchists/commies/students.

Sparks

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Is it too late for me to sign up for the Garda riot squad? Can't think of a better way to spend a weekend than baton charge a bunch of violent anarchists/commies/students.

Maybe it's just me having absolutely no sense of humour over an event where I wound up a cointoss away from having my head cracked, but why is it not acceptable to say "me and my mates are going to beat up an american if the secret service shoots an irishman" but acceptable to say what you just said?

ReefBreak

Perhaps if you beat up the American that actually shot the Irishman, I wouldn't object - depending on the circumstances obviously (e.g. if it was an RIRA man that was trying to assasinate a country's president, then I'd object). But if you just picked a random Yank and decided to beat him up, then I'd have a problem.

My comment above was pretty much tongue in cheek. I imagine there are plenty of Gardai that are looking forward to the Mayday weekend, as they've been involved in training for it over the last couple of months. It remains to be seen who will be responsible for starting a riot (if a riot does start), but I don't think it's a coincidence that wherever the anarchists travel, trouble and violence always, always, follows.

shotamoose

Originally posted by ReefBreak
I don't think it's a coincidence that wherever the anarchists travel, trouble and violence always, always, follows.

This is simply untrue. Unless by "always, always " you mean "sometimes, sometimes". I know that doesn't sound as cool, but I've still got this weird belief that factual accuracy is more important than rhetorical impact.

Sparks

Originally posted by ReefBreak
It remains to be seen who will be responsible for starting a riot (if a riot does start), but I don't think it's a coincidence that wherever the anarchists travel, trouble and violence always, always, follows.

That hardly seems accurate. And it's a poor reflection on us if we can't accept alternative points of view, within the obvious limits set by the requirement of not committing acts of physical violence against others.
After all, if your model of the universe is the right one, it ought to withstand some criticism, right RB?

D

Personnally I believe that if violence does occurr then the true meaning of the protest is diminished and pushed aside. Instead of the media reporting on the support that open boarders, human rights and civil liberties have garnered from the people they instead report on how a group of unruly people got out of hand and caused vandalism and cost the state even more of the taxpayers money. This reduces the support these groups have. I think that it is a terrible thing to have a peaceful group's hard work being reduced to nothing by a "hard core" of people so frustrated with the system that they feel their only option is to lash out violently.

TomF

I'd say a good way to spend at least part of the day is to attend Mass and say a few prayers for peace, and think of the "Queen of the Angels, Queen of the May."

Sparks

Originally posted by TomF
I'd say a good way to spend at least part of the day is to attend Mass and say a few prayers for peace, and think of the "Queen of the Angels, Queen of the May."

And what about the atheists, buddhists, taoists, shintoists, hindus, muslims, pagans and others?
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Sparks
And what about the atheists, buddhists, taoists, shintoists, hindus, muslims, pagans and others?
:rolleyes:

Well presumably they could meditate/attend their own services or simply take a drive out the country and marvel at the wonders of nature and the start of the summer season

Sparks

It would sure beat what the Irish Independent is reporting :

FIVE hundred troops are being given special riot training in preparation for the massive security operation for the May Day events to highlight Ireland's EU presidency. Senior Garda and Army officers were last night finalising the detailed blueprint aimed at curbing violence being planned by international and homegrown agitators. It will be the biggest joint operation to maintain law and order in more than a decade.

All garda leave and rest days have been cancelled and more than 4,000 members of the force will be on duty to police the celebrations over the May weekend. International police forces are supplying vital intelligence to Garda headquarters in the Phoenix Park on the movements of known anarchists and troublemakers who are expected to travel to Dublin to cause mayhem on the streets. The wide range of events to mark the official enlargement of the EU has put extra pressure on security resources available.

But last night senior officers were satisfied that their blueprint could cope with large-scale protests and provide protection for the influx of EU leaders. Gardai have already trained 1,200 personnel in public order duties with one unit assigned to each region and most of these will be deployed over the flashpoint weekend. The soldiers, drawn from barracks across the country, are being specially trained at the Garda College in Templemore and at the Curragh. The troops will be given specific roles in providing protection against the demonstrators expected to converge on Dublin from all over the country and other EU states, rather than merely acting as back-up for the gardai. They have been supplied with new riot gear similar to the equipment currently being used by gardai.

Army engineers have been placed on stand-by at the request of the gardai and may be asked to erect fencing at Farmleigh where the EU leaders will meet and at other key venues likely to be targeted for protests. Gardai, meanwhile, are examining the range of equipment available to them to deal with widespread street disturbances. Water cannons will be available in the event of major trouble.

The financial cost of the Garda operation has not yet been totted up but will be met partly from a special budget of €7.5m provided in the current estimates for the Department of Justice for overtime to cope with the extra duties arising from the EU presidency.

For the past seven weeks a network of Irish street activists has been preparing protests to mar the May celebrations. Many of the organisers of the protests were involved in the May Day clashes which resulted in violence on Dublin streets in 2002 and in last year's anti-war confrontations with gardai in Shannon and in the capital. They are planning a series of measures from Friday, April 30 to Monday, May 3 to "focus on symbols of all that is wrong with the EU, militarism, neo-liberalism, fortress Europe and the EU police state". The organisers have pledged that the EU leaders will "face resistance" and said it was intended to highlight local issues and campaigns linked to the broader problems of corporate globalisation and the EU.

You know, I've seen newspapers get biased before, and the Irish Independent is pretty much the lowest of the non-tabloid newspapers (face it, after the carravagio/berlusconi story, they have as much credibility as the Sunday World), but this really is a new low. I'm not sure which is worse - the possibility that the story may be accurate about the number of troops and gardai being planned on, or the sheer hatchet job they're doing on anyone who shows up for May Day!

Sand

Surely its reassuring to see the amount of security personnel and training thats been assigned to policing these demonstrators? It lessens the chance of an incident causing panic or moving out of control if the security forces have absolute superiority and confidence in their plan to keep order - if they didnt an ill advised baton charge or over agressive response the the provocation that troublemakers *will* put the gardai under could lead to all out riots.

As for the hatchet job the paper didnt say all protestors were toublemakers, it said the gardai were watching for troublemakers who were coming and that previous protests have led to widespread violence.

Sparks

Originally posted by Sand
Surely its reassuring to see the amount of security personnel and training thats been assigned to policing these demonstrators?

No, it's not. Firstly, deploying Irish troops against Irish civilians sets my teeth on edge. Secondly, I remember the video footage of the last time the riot squad got called on, and highly trained wouldn't be my description of that bunch. Thirdly, I've seen no evidence that these "troublemakers" exist and are a serious threat in this country, and finally, this is costing a shedload of cash that we could better spend elsewhere.

As for the hatchet job the paper didnt say all protestors were toublemakers, it said the gardai were watching for troublemakers who were coming and that previous protests have led to widespread violence.

Did you read a different article? "violence being planned by international and homegrown agitators", "known anarchists and troublemakers who are expected to travel to Dublin to cause mayhem on the streets","providing protection against the demonstrators expected to converge on Dublin from all over the country and other EU states", "a network of Irish street activists has been preparing protests to mar the May celebrations" - nowhere is there evidence of any of this, those involved in organising the may day activities are denying that this is anywhere near reality, and there's no mention of the ordinary revellers. And this isn't an isolated article, the Indo has been taking this line for a while now. (And for those who don't remember, this is the paper which puts so much effort into verifying its stories that a P45 joke saying that Berlusconi was demanding the return of a Carravagio painting - a joke dismissed by just about every other media source - got not only covered, but covered on the Indo's front page with an accompanying front-page editorial saying that it was time to rein in Berlusconi's belligerence! You trust the Irish Independent's sources at your peril, it would seem....)

D

While I'm not saying that every protester goes out to make trouble, there is a minority that sees it as their only option.

Sparks

Originally posted by D
While I'm not saying that every protester goes out to make trouble, there is a minority that sees it as their only option.

So you'll judge the majority of a group based on the actions of a criminal few? Not a good idea. A brief example:

While I'm not saying that every man on the internet is a paedophile hunting children, there is a minority that are, so let's ban the internet.

Originally posted by Sparks
No, it's not. Firstly, deploying Irish troops against Irish civilians sets my teeth on edge.
surely they are getting paid anyway and their function is to protect the peace and property, they arent there to drive tanks into the bulk of the Irish people Tianamen square style...you are being melodramatic.

Secondly, I remember the video footage of the last time the riot squad got called on, and highly trained wouldn't be my description of that bunch.
Yes mistakes were made,lessons were learned from that one. I'll be on here complaining , the same as yourself probably if the same mistakes are repeated...I very much doubt that they will be though.
Thirdly, I've seen no evidence that these "troublemakers" exist and are a serious threat in this country,
The sunday mirror reported last week that Indymedia were advertising for all and sundry to come to Dublin to cause mahem.
and finally, this is costing a shedload of cash that we could better spend elsewhere.
Thats no different to what has to be spent relatively speaking policing these sorts of events world wide.
The problem in this instance, is that we are currently holders of the presidency of the E.U and as such apparently we are to be the target of a more organised less indigenous may day protest.

Our own RTS crowd at least are supposed to be peacefull in nature, street party style.

Sparks

Originally posted by Earthman
surely they are getting paid anyway and their function is to protect the peace and property,

Frankly, I'd put people's health above both.

they arent there to drive tanks into the bulk of the Irish people Tianamen square style...you are being melodramatic.

No, I'm remembering precedence.

Yes mistakes were made,lessons were learned from that one.

You're thinking of the gardai on may day in dame street, not the riot squad.

The sunday mirror reported last week that Indymedia were advertising for all and sundry to come to Dublin to cause mahem.

After looking on indymedia, this is the closest I can find to that claim:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=63980

(Need I point out that I restrict my appreciation of the Sunday Mirror to it's catbox-lining qualities?)

Originally posted by Sparks
No, I'm remembering precedence.

You referred to the army, (who by the way are getting paid anyway...)
Now tell me where is the exact precedence?

Sparks

Originally posted by Earthman
You referred to the army, (who by the way are getting paid anyway...)
Now tell me where is the exact precedence?

Of a well-trained army unit opening fire on their own civilians? You jest, surely!

Boston

Originally posted by Sparks
Of a well-trained army unit opening fire on their own civilians? You jest, surely!

They won't be armed, And to be honest I'd be more worried of a poorly trained police force opening fire on civilians.

D

Originally posted by Sparks
So you'll judge the majority of a group based on the actions of a criminal few? Not a good idea. A brief example:

While I'm not saying that every man on the internet is a paedophile hunting children, there is a minority that are, so let's ban the internet.

I was not judging the majority of the group, I even said that i thought the majority were peaceful. Also nowhere in my post did I suggest that the parade should be banned. You are over reacting, getting defensive and putting words in my mouth by miss-quoting me.

D

With respect to the other point about claiming that the Irish Independent was biased when it claimed that there was

"violence being planned by international and homegrown agitators"

and that you stated that

"nowhere is there evidence of any of this"

well on the website linked to in the first post it includes the line

"will also respect people's decisions regarding which level of action they want to pursue"

indicating that it will not discourage people for acting unlawfully.

The same web page has links to articles such as

"Protect yourself against Baton Charges & Police Tactics
Protect yourself against Tear Gas
Protect yourself against Pepper Spray"

These tactics are only implemented on illegal protests. The Mayday protest is legal until a senior garda member deems that otherwise because of behaviour or a situation that places peoples health at risk or illegal activity is taking place because of said protest. Only then are these tactics used.

Toget to the point people should only have to worry about these tactics if they are involved in an illegal protest and refuse to move after being instructed to by a member of the gardai. These instruction usually take the form of

"This protest is no longer legal. Please disperse. You have twenty minutes (or other time frame)."

The gardai are allowed to use any necessary, non-excessive force to remove non-complients after the time allotted is up.

Originally posted by Sparks
Of a well-trained army unit opening fire on their own civilians? You jest, surely!

Could you elaborate on what you are referring to there Sparks...
Have the Irish Army ever opened fire on their fellow citizens in the ROI ?
You spoke of deploying Irish troops against Irish citizens and then mentioned precedence... as a reason for your teeth being on edge...
So please elaborate?

Sparks

Originally posted by Earthman
Could you elaborate on what you are referring to there Sparks...
Have the Irish Army ever opened fire on their fellow citizens in the ROI ?
You spoke of deploying Irish troops against Irish citizens and then mentioned precedence... as a reason for your teeth being on edge...
So please elaborate?

It sets my teeth on edge to watch Irish troops deployed against Irish civilians because of the worldwide precedents set when other nations have deployed their own troops against their own civilians. That any clearer? From Kent State to Tiannamen Square, it's never been a good idea.

Well that would be a matter of interpretation Sparks.
They are there to enforce the law.

Indeed I see a squad of them armed to the hilt protecting securicor vans delivering money to my local bank every wenesday.

I can't dissuade you from your fears of a bloodbath on our streets as the result the Irish army being present in a protective role...

I would suggest though that , you get a good nights rest on the strengths of my assurances that such an event is wholely unlikely

Ailill

That really would be a fun way to spend may Day - beating up crusties and so-called Anarchists. These people are just young thugs out to make trouble - it's just a little adventure for them but it's a huge pain in the ass for the Gardaí and everyone else.

If I see the Gardaí beating a few of these soapdodgers over the head I cheer!!

MeatProduct

Originally posted by Ailill
That really would be a fun way to spend may Day - beating up crusties and so-called Anarchists. These people are just young thugs out to make trouble - it's just a little adventure for them but it's a huge pain in the ass for the Gardaí and everyone else.

If I see the Gardaí beating a few of these soapdodgers over the head I cheer!!

Ah yes, the peace loving attitude that makes our world such a lovely place to live in.

Nick

Phil_321

Damn students and hippies:mad:. Cop on.

bonkey

This thread apparently serves no further purpose except to allow some people express their desire to see others get hurt.

I don't think the expression your collective bloodlust is really a political discussion.

Thread locked.

jc