Don't post until further notice

ixoy

Great news! The CRWU is funding the staff who have been suspended. They account for approximately 6% of the staff of An Post only and it means that they can continue not to work in the sorting centres for weeks or even months, if needs be. Hurrah for An Post! (my source was the Irish Independent)

jill_valentine

Aw puddles!

parsi

Originally posted by ixoy


Great news! The CRWU is funding the staff who have been suspended. They account for approximately 6% of the staff of An Post only and it means that they can continue not to work in the sorting centres for weeks or even months, if needs be. Hurrah for An Post! (my source was the Irish Independent)

(Alert: rambly bits follow)

Strike pay is a part of Union Benefits - after all its what you pay your sub for. I think it should be remembered that without Unions many of our working rights would not have been granted. after all we see that non-Union houses often have a policy of extracting as much as they can from workers because they have no solid representation - its easy to tackle people one-by-one .

Surely the argument "I had to loose my job without any benefit or consultation" is not a valid argument against other workers struggling to ensure that their conditions are unilaterally changed...

"nobody owes you a living" - if one was in an organsiation that was going to let you go would you just say rught thanks or would you go to your union and try and better the situation ? If you have a Union you will try and better the situation and get what you can out of it - its human nature. It's whycompanies like Rynair don't want unions.

lets face it - those who are unionised think they are a benefit, those who aren't (or can't be) unionised think they are an anachronism whilst business thinks that having to pay people at all is a bad thing and why doesn't the State provide them with the publicly funded things they want and not the publicly funded things that benefit workers/ children/ marginalised society... (whilst still not taking taxes from business).

jill_valentine

I guess I can understand both sides of the arguement, and my leftish leanings are pulling me to start supporting the union...but I still just want my post...

Sparks

Originally posted by jill_valentine
I guess I can understand both sides of the arguement, and my leftish leanings are pulling me to start supporting the union...but I still just want my post...

Then you might want to talk to the An Post management, seeing as how this is pretty much their idea.

pork99

Originally posted by parsi
(Alert: rambly bits follow)
Surely the argument "I had to loose my job without any benefit or consultation" is not a valid argument against other workers struggling to ensure that their conditions are unilaterally changed...

So one rule for 30% of workers who are in unions and and have the privilege of working for monopolies and another rule for the 70% of workers whose employers MUST compete sucessfully in the market for them to stay in employment?

"nobody owes you a living" - if one was in an organsiation that was going to let you go would you just say rught thanks or would you go to your union and try and better the situation ? If you have a Union you will try and better the situation and get what you can out of it - its human nature. It's whycompanies like Rynair don't want unions.

For me there is a positive side. I've lost income but I have also gained freedom. I have promised myself to never again get stuck in the same position as I was in when in that job. If I can make a success of self-employment, I'm ultimately in a much stronger position.

Personally the only time I felt like joining a union was when I had to work under an incompetent, devious, c*ntfaced, sp*stic demon "project manager" in my previous job. It was purely to kick back at that individual. In a well run company there should be no need for unions. Politics has no place in a professional business environment. If people want a union something is wrong - managment are failing. And I admit there there seems to be a fair amount of management deviousness/incompetence in An Post

I really don't care whether CIE, Air Rianta or An Post are publicly or privately owned or whether they are heavily unionised or not. As long as I can get a bus, get post delivered, use the airport without being ripped off.

BuffyBot

In a well run company there should be no need for unions

I guess it depends on what you define on well run. A large company who sall remain nameless, I'm sure consider themselves to be well run, but if there was ever a case for unionisation it would be it.

thetis

This is one that I hate, on the one hand I tend toward the pink side of red politically. I think unions are a good idea, if only (and not only) to protect and promote issues which are not intrinsic to the company as a whole. Health and safety being a huge one. On the other hand, the An Post workers signed a contract when they started working which clearly defined their salaries and working hours. Overtime is a perk, it is NOT part of the contract. I completely disagree with those who strike because they'll lose "their" overtime. It's not theirs in the first place. They signed a contract, they should abide by it. Can you imagine the war that would break out if An Post suspended anyone who hadn't worked o/t. So why should we have sympathy for those who are costing our economy, damaging our reputations internationally and in general behaving like children who cry because another child won't let them play with their toy.

Victor

Yes, legally the position is you are not entitled to overtime hours. However, good HR practice when going from a position of large numbers of systematic overtime hours to none (e.g. when a factory goes from one to two shifts), is to provide the existing staff with some compensation. However, here we have a position where staff will go from working systematic overtime hours to part-time work and other will simply be laid off, pragmatism, common sense and ordinary decency dictates it be handled delicately.

Specky

In a well run company there should be no need for unions

In a well run company the staff should have open lines of communication both upwards and downwards through the management structure. Where there exists a very large workforce or where it may be distributed through multiple sites it is sensible to establish representatives for the staff through whom communications to and from management may flow.....sounds like a union to me....

Nothing wrong with the principle, in fact I'm all for unions, guilds, associations, institutions etc. But the purpose of business is to do business, whatever that business might be, and all those involved should be working together for the common good, not dividing into the management/worker "us and them" sides and turning the union into a political organisation with an agenda of its own.

BigEejit

Originally posted by Victor
Yes, legally the position is you are not entitled to overtime hours.

Correct

However, good HR practice when going from a position of large numbers of systematic overtime hours to none (e.g. when a factory goes from one to two shifts), is to provide the existing staff with some compensation.

Where did you hear that, I have been in two companies that axed O/T ... no-one ever thought to go on strike BECAUSE IT WAS O/T FOR FUCKS SAKE, why should these lads be different. If they were counting OT as a permanent part of their pay they were idiots.

However, here we have a position where staff will go from working systematic overtime hours to part-time work and other will simply be laid off

What percentages will go part-time and laid off ... There are private companies that were in the same position and have lost up to 30% of staff, didnt see them go on strike.

pragmatism, common sense and ordinary decency dictates it be handled delicately.

But crucially, it is not necessitated by law, they have no grounds for going on strike, they are putting Bertie under pressure because he wants a nice happy electorate before upcoming elections and the unions are exploiting this. All strikes recently have ended well for the unions ...... the CWU knows that it has bertie by the short hairs.

Sparks

Originally posted by BigEejit
they have no grounds for going on strike

They are not on strike.
They did not go on strike.
They cancelled their plans to go on strike before this ever hit the boards.ie forum.
Go read the SBPost article linked above, because you've got the wrong end of the wrong stick with regard to this topic....

pork99

Originally posted by Specky
In a well run company the staff should have open lines of communication both upwards and downwards through the management structure. Where there exists a very large workforce or where it may be distributed through multiple sites it is sensible to establish representatives for the staff through whom communications to and from management may flow.....sounds like a union to me....

Nothing wrong with the principle, in fact I'm all for unions, guilds, associations, institutions etc. But the purpose of business is to do business, whatever that business might be, and all those involved should be working together for the common good, not dividing into the management/worker "us and them" sides and turning the union into a political organisation with an agenda of its own.

I prefer to work either by myself or for SMEs. In that environment I don't think that the "them and us" culture promoted by a union is particularily helpful. You need more of a "we are all on the same team" philosophy.

I worked, for a couple of years, for a major retail bank in this country as a contractor. Let us call them "Bank of Hibernia" or BoH. I became discontented with my conditions. I moved to a better job. If I had no alternative but to work permanently for BoH I could imagine myself joining a union.

BigEejit

Originally posted by Sparks
They are not on strike.
They did not go on strike.
They cancelled their plans to go on strike before this ever hit the boards.ie forum.
Go read the SBPost article linked above, because you've got the wrong end of the wrong stick with regard to this topic....

Originally posted by ixoy
Great news! The CRWU is funding the staff who have been suspended. They account for approximately 6% of the staff of An Post only and it means that they can continue not to work in the sorting centres for weeks or even months, if needs be. Hurrah for An Post! (my source was the Irish Independent)

So they were(are?) on strike pay from the union, and they had been effectively stopping mail sorting etc in the affected offices ..... if that wasnt being on stike I dont know what is

Victor

Originally posted by BigEejit
So they were(are?) on strike pay from the union, and they had been effectively stopping mail sorting etc in the affected offices ..... if that wasnt being on stike I dont know what is

They were suspended by management so in union speak it was a lock-out.

Sparks

Originally posted by BigEejit
So they were(are?) on strike pay from the union, and they had been effectively stopping mail sorting etc in the affected offices ..... if that wasnt being on stike I dont know what is

It's called being suspended.
The reason that the strike pay needed a decision from the CWU before they got it was that they weren't on strike.