kill people in Ireland, if THEY deem it necessary

gandalf

Now forgive me if I am wrong here but I saw nothing in the press sippets about Immunity for shooting anyone over here. All I saw was Herr Flick saying they could be armed. One major factor is if an American Secret Service agent or Security person guns down a unarmed Irish Protestor George Jnr can kiss goodbye to the Irish American vote.

While I am totally against George Jnr coming to Ireland I agree with Morphéus in that Ireland does not have the resources to adequately police this situation. From my memory when George Jnr visited London they had more police on Duty than there are in Ireland as a whole.

Ah well I for one will be out protesting when he is over here, sure it will be a nice day out and the sun will be shining

Gandalf.

GuanYin

The Garda Commissioner seems very unhappy with the situation and says that the law will apply to the secret service agents, ie. they will be arrested and investigated for any use of firearms.

I don't like Bush, I don't want him coming here, if they were gonna try kill him, here would be the place to do it. HOWEVER I don't think people need to worry and I think the over-reaction on this board is ludicrous.

Think about it, these men are going to be very highly trained and the LAST thing, the VERY LAST thinh the Bush administration would want is to be in power when a bunch of US secret service gun down some peace loving Irish protesters on their own neutral soil.

If I was to worry about anything, it would be suicide terrorists or such *causing* the secret service to open fire and kill Irish bystanders. Such a move may kill Bush, but if it doesn't it will lose him the election, which may be next best thing for AQ.

MeatProduct

Ireland is not equipped to handle this visit. Simple answer, have it somewhere that is equipped to handle it. Clearly people are upset about it and for good reason. People with guns do not increase safety for the Irish people, that is the important factor. Bush is coming into OUR country. He is bringing the potential for death. As said above, it is unlikely that Bush will be bothered. It is more likely that there will be an attack on the public by the US/Al Queda (same people at the end of the day).

Nick

Gearoid

If yee want to stop him coming heres what yee do, drive into all the major airports and dig holes in the runways with JCB's, :ninja: Try and land then in your 747 why don't you!
Another suggestion would be to gather up all your petrol and sell it so that theres no oil based fuels in Ireland, he'll lose interest straight away.
If he does come, we should tell him to topple our despot government, he'd be doing us a favour!

Senor_Fudge

my friends and i all agreed that if any of those ****ers kill any irish person we're gonna find a yank and throw him in the river

pork99

Originally posted by Senor_Fudge
my friends and i all agreed that if any of those ****ers kill any irish person we're gonna find a yank and throw him in the river

Do you actually believe any protestors will allowed to come within 10 miles of the Chickenhawk-in-Chief?

I think that a couple of slaps from a garda is all they will have to worry about.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by Morphéus
They wont get immunity, they will be responsible for their actions if they DO shoot someone.

Experiance in other countries has shown that when US service men kill people they usually get air lifted out of the country PDQ - or at worst they are allowed to be tried in the states.

So no I don't view this as enough "checks and balances" - we do have armed response units, we do have an army and there are the rangers.

A bodyguard being allowed a temporary gun license - fine it's the way it's been done before. If they use thier weapons then they can it would be up to the DPP / courts to decide on their usage. But to give carte blanche... And to then publicaly announce it... The only justifyible reason would be if there was such probability of a security threat that death or injury was highly likely in which case the visit should be cancelled...

Eye

omg i have'nt laughed so much in ages hearing about this on the news was funny enough but to see this thread, well i'm just in the knots here.

first off i'd like to just state for the record, i'm not one bit politically minded, have no interest and never will, not registered to vote and can't see anything that would make me want to, as for bush, i don't like him i don' hate him, he got sadam....fair play but he's spent longer trying to find let alone capture osama and still has'nt a clue :-\ he's also done plenty of other not so good stuff but either way i've only got 1 interest in his visit to ireland and that is the comidic value it brings.

C'mon people, listening to the 6 o'clock news on RTE, the people objecting to bush coming over here were basically saying he should'nt come coz if he soes any protesters will be shot on site, and that's bassically what people here are saying too :rolleyes: wake up and smell the coffee people, it's not like there will be snipers on the rooftops picking off anyone on the street that is taking part in a peacefull protest now is it? if your that worried about going to protest and not coming back alive, as george would say, i have 3 words for you "Don't go"

like i said i have not like or dislike for buch but i don't blame him for wanting to have his secret service armed, it's not like the cops here can handle an attack on bush. what can they do if someone has a gun and is waiting to get george.
Garda: eh.... could you put that weapon away there please sir?
i can tell ya i sure a shi* would'nt feel one bit safe if i was george in that situation i'd rather have my own people who actually know what they are doing and could handle attacks and such.

anyways i think all you people worried about the visit need to take a chill pill, if you wanna protest then off you go, do something stupid and it's you own fault and i will have no sympathy for you if i hear about it on the news, it's not like you don't know what the consequences will be for your actions. if ya just wanna see george then head up and have a good day and all the best to ya

end of my 2c

Nuttzz

He is here for 12 hours, just half a day. Nothing will happen (as usual)

MrPudding

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Experiance in other countries has shown that when US service men kill people they usually get air lifted out of the country PDQ - or at worst they are allowed to be tried in the states.

Could you post me links for this information. I was trying to find info on secret service shootings and the consequences but due to time constraints I was unable to. I can’t recall reading anything in the recent past so I would be very interested to read you sources.

Cheers

MrP

SheroN

WTF is protesting going to do anyway? If you feel that strongly about it go to america and protest for Kerry so bush doesn't get back into office.

Senor_Fudge

that wasnt sarcasm we will go on a yank hunt

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Senor_Fudge

i didnt say kill them u did
i said kick the crap out of them

Senor_Fudge

the way i see it is if they want to employ gung ho tactics we have to let them know in our own special and unique way that this **** will not stand in ireland
We've taken **** before and we know how to dish it out when we have to
And this would be my own protest to that dispicable war in Iraq which is totally wrong from all points of view

To even suggest that irish people will be killed is an outrage in itself for merely protesting... what kind of government would invite such trouble into their country and such blatant thuggish threats?

GuanYin

Originally posted by Senor_Fudge
i didnt say kill them u did
i said kick the crap out of them

Come and get me :rolleyes:

Do you think

a) Bush would care, thousands of US are assaulted abroad each year

b) The american would actually be a Bush supporter anyway? Very few overseas citizens are.

Senor_Fudge

im not threatening you personally
im just stating what was said that is all

Catsmokinpot

well thats just lovely isnt it, seeing as americans never caused any friendly fire cases when they've used weapons have they....... oh wait :rolleyes:

Senor_Fudge

thank u catsmokinpot
good point made there

wasnt it 25% or so casualties in the first gulf war were actually friendlies
come on i wouldnt trust them with a pea shooter
the ira would offer better protection than that methinks!
or maybe ask Al Queda

bonkey

Senor_Fudge (and anyone else who may wish to join in in agreement).....

I would prefer if you went no further in advocating violence on this forum.

Do not mistake the polite wording as a request.

jc

Senor_Fudge

i was not advocating it
thats a misunderstanding

i didnt stand up and say lets all flake a yank
i just stated what my friends and i said

and i said to syke that i definately meant no offence to him if he is american
it was just an opinion
not a statement meant to rally the troops

sorry about that
no further comments

MeatProduct

All this talk of killing and guns gives me a thought; what if all the gun factories in the world were closed? Now clearly I'm living in faery-tale land if I think that would happen but wouldn't it solve quite a lot? Instead of attacking "terror", why doesn't Bush target the tools of terror? Of course the problem there is that Bush would look really stupid cause it would draw attention to the biggest weapons dealer in the world.... On second thoughts it's better to go killing "folks" cause that's the obvious answer.

Nick

sceptre

Originally posted by MeatProduct
All this talk of killing and guns gives me a thought; what if all the gun factories in the world were closed?

We'd be defenceless when the aliens arrive and have to rely upon planks with rusty nails attached for weapons to free us from intergalactic bondage.

When I visit the US I'm going to rip a teddy bear apart and wrap the fur around my arms. It's in the constitution!

Sparks

Originally posted by MeatProduct
All this talk of killing and guns gives me a thought; what if all the gun factories in the world were closed?

Guns get made outside factories too.
Besides which, I'd be out of a sport.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Senor_Fudge
i was not advocating it
thats a misunderstanding

i didnt stand up and say lets all flake a yank
i just stated what my friends and i said

and i said to syke that i definately meant no offence to him if he is american
it was just an opinion
not a statement meant to rally the troops

sorry about that
no further comments

On a serious (not threatening anything personally) note, I do think that any instance of a US security agent shooting a protestor in June would lead to a rather tense situation in which any citizens of the US would be advised to keep their heads down.

Lets face it, tempers would rise post-hypothetical shooting. Lets not forget, the aftermath of Bloody Sunday saw angry demonstrations on the streets of Dublin and the burning of the UK embassy. Could we see a repeat performance?

Redleslie

Originally posted by bonkey
Senor_Fudge (and anyone else who may wish to join in in agreement).....

I would prefer if you went no further in advocating violence on this forum.

Do not mistake the polite wording as a request.

jc

I've seen quite a number of people on the politics forum advocate violence - by calling for the death penalty, by expressing support for democracy abolishing woman torturing dictators, by defending various military interventions/nation state wars/guerrilla campaigns (some of which have been of dubious legality and would, technically speaking, therefore involve even more mass murder than normal), and so on. So can you clarify what violence is ok please Bonkey?

Walter Ego

Personally I hope he does a "Boris Yeltsin" - arrives too p1ssed to get off the plane.

Yankee go home.

vorbis

Redleslie
I thought that was a pretty poor attempt at trolling.
There's quite a clear distinction between arguing about a policy and stating you want to personally beat / kill another person.

Brerrabbit

"to disgrace a national leader like that deserves a lengthy jail sentence... ... its not so long (maybe 150-200 years) ago that if you did something like that you wouldve been executed."
originally posted by Morpheus

Jesus Christ, what kind of an attitude is that ffs?!
The government have already enough of a superiority complex without anyone supporting that kind of mentality. :mad:

The government (and the U.S. government) are meant to (sadly In fairy land I know) be of the people not above the people, first among equals, representatives. As such they should have the same legal protection (Btw not alluding to physical protection here) as the rest of us plebians they're meant to be representing. no more no less.

"Disgracing" our politicians (Yes Even "National leaders") can be a valid method of exposing misbehaviour (think of the tribunals) and does not in any way deserve a "lengthy jail sentence" - now is not 150-200 years ago thank Christ!

Now the idea of shaming (which I think is what you were getting at) a nation through its diplopmatic representative, might be slightly different but in this George W is not only a diplomatic figure, but also the executive officer (or whatever the term is) in the States- he determines policy (along with the house of representatives etc.) at least in theory, (though in this case I think he is just a figurehead and whatever groups have their collective hand up his bum are making the decisions, but I'm digressing).

Sorry about the rant, this wasn't a personal attack but that kind of attitude pisses me off, these people are not to be put on a pedestal beyond reproach (Especially in Ireland, where, to me at least, corruption is rife and politicians hold the population in contempt and derision).

All that being said I agree with most of what you were saying; the Secret service are pretty top notch at what they do and arent trigger happy nuts. It would be a political disaster for Bush (and Bertie and Co.) if any innocent protesters were shot.

Licensed firearms: yes immunity: no.
Besides if the Secret service foil an assanination attempt killing someone in the process then there'd be no need of diplomatic immunity, this is just an attempt to cover the collective ass in case some randomer gets shot without any good reason.

Good point about having an egg contain anthrax or something tho, never thought of that.

P.S. The word "anthrax" has probably made this thread appear on some CIA monitoring computer somewhere