[Article] Limited legal recognition urged for Irish gay couples

yellum

Irish set to give equal rights to gay couples

Norris to the rescue again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gayrights/story/0,12592,1179715,00.html

Senator predicts all-party support for law a decade after sexual revolution began for Republic's gays

Henry McDonald, Ireland editor
Sunday March 28, 2004
The Observer

Gay sex was still illegal just over a decade ago in Ireland. But in another milestone in the Irish sexual revolution, a Bill designed to grant gay couples the same rights in law as married heterosexuals will be introduced in the Dublin Senate next month.

And the champion of legal gay unions says he believes all the parties in Leinster House will back his legislation.

In his last major political battle of a 20-odd year career in Ireland's upper House, Senator David Norris' Domestic Partnership Bill 2004 would, if passed, effectively legalise gay and lesbian marriages.

The gay senator stresses that his Bill is not only aimed at protecting the rights of gays and lesbians, but also heterosexuals who live with each other but are not formally married. 'In terms of financial benefits such as inheritance rights, gay men, lesbians and unmarried couples are still second class citizens in this state,' Norris said.

'Take a gay couple who have been together all of their adult lives: if one of those men dies, his partner at present has no legal rights to inherit his long-term lover's pension.

He added: 'The same is the case with mortgages where a house cannot be handed over to the life-long partner if their lover, who is the mortgage holder, were to die. It is a terrible injustice which must be righted.'

Norris pointed out that there have also been cases where life-long partners have been denied access to dying lovers in hospital. 'I have dealt with cases where a long term lover goes to see his partner and that partner's family ban him from seeing his lover,' he said. 'This is because they are not in law a next-of-kin and have no right even on the edge of death.'

Norris also expressed concern at Irish gay men's inability to bring a partner from abroad into Ireland. 'Today in Ireland, gay men from South America are very popular.

'I know lots of men whose partners come from that continent but because their relationship is not recognised in law they have no rights, as heterosexuals do, to bring a foreign partner legally into the country,' he added

The independent senator and Joycean scholar claims he has cross-party support for the bill, which will lead to formal gay unions in the Irish Republic if successful.

'In 1993 being gay was still illegal so I suppose we have already come a very long way in the liberalisation of Ireland,' he said. 'This final battle is a nice way to end my political life on a positive note.'

While the Catholic bishops are likely to oppose the bill, Catholic commentators accept that the issue is likely to be less heated than the controversy over gay marriage in the United States.

Simon Rowe, the editor of the influential Irish Catholic, says the gay union issue 'is not going to be lightning rod for Catholic anger'.

Younger Irish gay men, who have enjoyed unprecedented freedom, are predicting widespread support for the Bill. Brian Finnegan, the editor of Gay Community News, said: 'I think the majority of Irish people are tolerant towards gay people. Gay men and lesbians are more socially acceptable and open in Irish society.

'Most gay men are not into party politics or ideology but Senator Norris's campaign is something even the most apolitical can relate to and support. If his Bill becomes law it will mean another victory for gay men and lesbians' civil rights.'

If the Irish government decides to block his Bill, the 60-year-old senator is vowing to come out of semi-retirement for a final fight.

'If the government does obstruct the legislation there is one battle left: I will take them all the way to the European Court of Human Rights,' Norris said.

oneweb

Well formed article. Norris is to be commended for his determination, and I for one really do hope it pays off.

yellum

From today's Irish Independent:

McDowell supports rights for gay partners
by Gene McKenna and Alison O'Connor

THE prospect of gay unions being recognised in Irish law came a step closer yesterday when Justice, Equality and Law Reform Minister Michael McDowell indicated his support for such partnerships on the basis of equal rights.

However, it has emerged there is a reluctance among some Fianna Fail members of Cabinet to introducing legislation in this controversial area.

One senior party source said last night it was an exaggeration to say the matter had been discussed at Cabinet recently but was merely referred to when a decision was being made not to allow companion travel rights to partners in gay relationships where one partner had earned a free travel pass.

But Mr McDowell said at the PD annual conference that the issue was not going to go away and was "coming sharper into focus". He said that in Government, there was a clear understanding that this issue would not go away, could not be brushed aside, and had to be addressed.

There was lots of room for making Ireland "less discriminatory" and for "doing justice to people whether they are in homosexual or heterosexual, or completely non-sexual relationships", he said.

However the minister told Young PD delegates at the party's annual conference that the "very generous" tax regime for married couples would have to be looked at and might have to be reduced in order to bring in equality for those involved in gay unions.

He said the extension of the "very generous" tax regime to gay couples would have major implications for the Exchequer. But, he said, that was "a detail" and was not the principle.

The remarks follow a report from the Equality Authority which recommends that same-sex couples be given the same rights as married heterosexual couples on inheritance and taxation. Independent senator David Norris is to introduce his own Bill to the Seanad shortly which would give equal rights to gay couples.

Meanwhile, also dealing with equality issues in his speech to the full conference earlier, Mr McDowell said he was half-way through implementation of a seven-year programme for Equal Opportunity Childcare Programmes costing €460m.

And, he said, the Government would shortly publish a new Disability Bill.

'Today in Ireland, gay men from South America are very popular.

I can just hear Sen Norris saying that:D and meanwhile some old biddy wondering what for

McDowell was on the sunday supplement yesterday on Today fm I think it was talking positively about the move to legalise same sex civil unions and regularising the situation leagally in terms of inheritance etc for heterosexual un married couples.
He said it had been discussed at cabinet.
This is from a stalwarth of a party often critisised for being conservative
Speaking of which, on Sky news today, they reported on a work shop run by the Tory party for gays and lesbians in an effort to get more support from that section of the voting public...

Regarding the probable inevitability of the Irish law change...
It's alltogether a good move.
I know of some people who are partners and have bought houses together and have kids and have bought their house as "tennants in common" on the deeds.
But this still has tax implications for those that are not blood relatives or married or whatever.
Civil union/inheritance/taxation equality rights etc should be a given regardless of the couples orientation.

Welcome to the 21st century, it appears to be up ahead.

Yoda

Limited legal recognition urged for gay couples

Same sex unions

Mark Hennessy

Legal recognition will have to be given to same sex unions in some fashion, the Minister for Justice, Mr McDowell, said.

Speaking to a meeting of Young Progressive Democrats, the Minister said this recognition should not put such unions on the same legal basis as marriage. A number of cases seeking such recognition before the courts were unlikely to succeed, he believed, though "a lot of problems" could occur if they were to do so. He said Independent Senator David Norris had proposed "a civil partnership model"to ensure that gay and lesbian couples would have proper inheritance and other rights.

"As a liberal party the time has come for us to nail our colours to the mast. Right across the Government I sense the view that there will have to be some sort of recognition for civil partnerships," Mr McDowell said.

While calling for support for such a proposal, he indicated that offering full marital status would open up serious constitutional problems. However, he warned that "the very, very generous tax regime" enjoyed by married couples would have to be reduced if equal tax benefits were to be enjoyed by all those in other forms of relationships.

Yoda

1. What exactly are the "serious constitutional problems" entailed by marriage between same-sex couples? Bunreacht na hÉireann doesn't say anything at all about the gender of people in the family, and doesn't use the word husband or wife. It refers to the special place of women in the home, but it doesn't necessarily imply that every home need to have a woman to be a family, any more than a home without children isn't a family.

2. Why is a "liberal party" proposing that people in some kinds of relationships aren't equal to those in other kinds of relationships? He seems to threaten that if gay people get rights, the existing rights of straight people will be curtailed. What's he trying to do, get heterosexuals to oppose the granting of rights because it will cost them money?

3. I am unimpressed by Mr McDowell's performance. Perhaps it is time for another letter to the Private Secretary....

yellum

Legal status for gay couples 'could raise taxes'

By Fionnán Sheahan, Political Correspondent

MARRIED couples could end up paying more tax if gay and cohabiting couples get legal recognition, according to Justice Minister Michael McDowell.

Supporting calls from Progressive Democrats members for official status for non-conventional couples, the minister said the Government was going down the road of granting legal status to unmarried couples, homosexual couples and other dependent relationships.

"There is nothing to stop some form of civil unions or partnership to be recognised," he said.

The change could affect income tax, inheritance and gift tax, property rights, next-of-kin designation and pension and travel rights.

The minister warned there could be knock-on consequences for married couples, as an extension of tax breaks to a significantly higher number of people would have colossal implications for the exchequer.

"The very, very generous tax regime for married people would have to be reduced to bring in equality," the minister said.

"That is a detail and not the principle," he added.

Speaking at the PDs conference, Mr McDowell said the Cabinet clearly understood this is an agenda that must be addressed.

Referring to recommendations from the Equality Authority, submitted to Government in 2002, he said that report was not being ignored.

"At Government level, right across Government, I sense the views being expressed here today are the coming view," he said.

Saying the party had to be realistic about what can be achieved, Mr McDowell played down the chances of court cases seeking legal status being successful, and also said a referendum would be controversial and resisted by conservative elements.

PD conference delegates in Killarney criticised the party hierarchy for scheduling the debate on equal rights in a room on the top floor of the Glen Eagle Hotel, in what was reportedly intended to be a closed session.

But Mr McDowell said he was surprised to hear the debate was prevented from being held in the main hall.

"This is a debate that shouldn't be held in a shoe box," he said.

"I very much regret any implication that we are talking about it in the closet. We are not."