reclaim the tricolour

Gearoid

Well to be honest I think it's MacDowell thats in the wrong, the National flag belongs to all, I wouldn't mind if the loyalists adopted it, MacDowell is just on his high horse because for years he was to ashamed to have the flag.
As for what it represents, someone was dead on with 2 tribes 1 Nation

ciderandhavoc

The tricolour is our National flag – the symbol of the Republic which we serve. That Republic has one army, one police, one constitution. It's a democracy – for democrats. It has no room for violence, criminality and terror. The sooner that that message sinks home, the sooner that the real work and vocation of all genuine republicans on this island can be brought to fruition.

- Michael McDowell

http://www.politics.ie/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4203

Sand

I do think the Irish tricolour is perhaps more associated with Republicanism than with the Irish Republic, at least by Irish people themselves. Its odd to see it flying outside of sporting occasions and when someone makes a point of flying it, what might be seen as innocent patriotism in one country ( the US for example ) is viewed with a good deal more suspicion in a country where weve our fair share of militant nationalist nutters and their apologists. That said, Ive got a little tricolour flying from my workdesk

The same can be said of most countries in Europe though - people feel uncomftable if theyre seen as being too nationalistic as Europe has seen nothing but trouble from nationalists.

As for the flag itself, I understand the intent of the 2 tribes and the peace between them design ubt I think it highlights a division based on religion - sectarianism which bears little or no role in Ireland, only in that part of the UK where our flag has been most sullied by its association with terrorism and sectarianism. Id prefer that suggestion of the gold harp on the blue background tbh. Sectarianism is not an issue in the republic and I feel our flag shouldnt attempt to highlight a division where none really exists.

parsi

I briefly looked through this thread today so my responses may be out-of-date..

I agree that the Tricolour needs to bereclaimed.. for a long time it was assocaited with republicanism (be it right or wrong) and Offical Ireland had very little to do with it bar Civil Service offices at Easter. Otherwise the tricolour was almost seen as seditious.

.. then along comes Italia90 and now we all see that we can be proud of being Irish (warts and all) and that flying the flag didn't have a politcial motive.. that ushered in the age of our national flag becoming acceptable in our country (despite the fact that individuals in other countries fly thers with pride).

I think that since then we have reclaimed the flag - go to a ferry port and you will see cars with Tricolours..last weekend we had the Irish team on TV with Peter Stringer holding the tricolour. It has become mainstream and it's about time.

It seems to me that the Pds and FF have suddenly realised that SF are a significant political force in the forthcoming elections and that soemthing has to be done to discredit them - only this can explain why FF afters many mnay years of working with SF suddenly say (in public) that Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA (something I think that the electorate had figured out and accepted bearing in mind the benefits a long time ago).

(By the same token FG are criticising the waiting lists for the NEPS (educational Psychology Services) even though the scheme was introduced my Micheal Martin during the current government and FG had no desire to do it while they were around... )

It's all just pre-local election posturing..

Draupnir

I just think it is a terrible shame that 80 years on we are still fighting amongst ourselves over the same issues. Cant we just live our own lives and stop worrying about who lives where?

I think Northern Ireland is for the Northern Irish, the Republic of Ireland for the Irish and I think the tricolour is for any person who sees it as their national flag.

monument

Needless to say Mr Dowell was only adding to his current lines of attack on SF.

However, I’m slightly bemused to how much the Ireland flag is linked with the IRA and SF in the south, in the north it’s pretty clear, but from my own experience I can only link it to state owned buildings, some hotels etc who don’t obey rules of flag usage, and national sporting teams.

TomF

I think the Irish flag gets fairly disgraceful treatment much of the time. How often have you seen it in tatters flying, ignored, for day after day and night after night from some pole until it ends up a rag? In 1974 I visited Norway for a month and was very favourably impressed by the reverence which Norwegians seemed to give their flag. In America the flag is also a thing of reverence, not a piece of cloth that only goes up to show that: "Beware, court is in session." Maybe the problem with the Irish flag is that it is just one of the multitude of national tricolors, or as they used to say on British TV, "trickelers". Think of how easy it is to mistake the Irish flag for the Italian flag.

Walter Ego

Originally posted by ciderandhavoc
- Michael McDowell

http://www.politics.ie/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4203

To quote a politician, of any flavour, as a support for an argument is to build on foundations of sand. Politicians will say whatever is expedient at the moment, later claim it ment something a little different and later still deny ever having said it.

pdh

What a lot of guff, has anyone not heard the line “Take it down from the mast, free state traitors”…………

The 26 counties has given up any pretensions to been a state or part of the Irish nation anymore. It’s just a province of the EU Superstate and as such should drop its claim to the Irish Republican Tricolour.
I think it would be more honest if it went for a new flag to reflect the status of the 26 county state as a very small cog with no control of it affairs in the new improved imperialist Europe.

bonkey

Originally posted by pdh
What a lot of guff, has anyone not heard the line “Take it down from the mast, free state traitors”…………

Yup. I generally dismiss it as yet more hate-filled rhetoric.

Nothing you've said following that statement has convinced me otherwise.

jc

Raskolnikov

Gold harp with blue background? That sounds ridiculous to me, wether we like it or not, our tricolour defines us as a nation to outsiders. It signifies native Irish and settler communities coming together in patriotic brotherhood, etc. Prrotestants and Catholics fought together under this banner to ensure that we didn't have to live under the yoke of an English monarach. So, just because some people who you disagree with have tried adopting the flag as their own it doesn't mean we need to adopt something that has utterly no relevence or signifigance to anyone. We are not living in a Free State anymore.

Redleslie

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Gold harp with blue background?

That's the guinness logo. They'd sue. Then again, since some nutters believe that everything in the country should be privatised or sold to foreign governments (China can bid against America for Shannon) maybe it's time to look at turning the flag into a source of revenue by allowing companies to bid to replace it with their logos. Could mean a new truly democratic flag every year or so instead of the boring same old same old.

David-[RLD]-

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Nobody really celebrates the Easter Rising or Irish Independence in this country, because it's been hijacked by Sinn Féin and their grubby ultra-nationalist supporters for years. Similarly, most people would be reluctant to fly the tri-colour outside their houses, because to do so would be to suggest that they were the resident Sinn Féin/IRA supporting family in the locality. That's something normal people would avoid like the plague. You can disagree with me on this if you want, but that's how it really is in Ireland at the moment. The only exception to this is during the World Cup in Rugby or Soccer.

I'm not sure I'd fully celebrate certain aspects of our history anyway (such as the certain parts of the Easter Rising or the War of Independence), but that's for another thread.

What the hell are you on? Wake up and go back to the DUP ffs.
Thousands of people in Ireland celebrate the Easter Rising and our (partial..) independence. I have the tricolour over the speaker on my guitar amp (used to be on my wall) because I'm proud of our country and I come from a long line of Republicans.

Please just do yourself a favour and stop with the Sinn Féin bashing. We Republicans don't go around saying "oh.. you're a Unionist so I hate you" so why should you do that with us? As a matter of fact I'm friends with some people who are very apathetic about the whole situation up north but it hardly changes my opinion of them. You automatically stereotype all Sinn Féin supporters as being scum or something similar. This is obviously not the case except in your little world which I very much doubt extends much further than your front door. Observe the real world PLEASE!

Are you friends with McDowell by any chance? Any relation? Wouldn't surprise me if you were his best mate.

Redleslie

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
I come from a long line of Republicans.

The dole queue? Ho ho ho!

*sorry, couldn't resist.

David-[RLD]-

lol that's actually pretty funny and HORRIBLY DISCRIMINATIVE! *runs away screaming*

:rolleyes:

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
Please just do yourself a favour and stop with the Sinn Féin bashing.

Give the 'wounded' Sinn Feiner thing a break. Sinn Fein are NOT above criticism.

AmenToThat

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Nobody really celebrates the Easter Rising or Irish Independence in this country, because it's been hijacked by Sinn Féin and their grubby ultra-nationalist supporters for years.

Surely that means that some people DO celebrate it?

Do you mean that no people of your way of thinking celebrate it or that people of a nationalist and republican way of thinking do not count to you?

If that is your and indeed other peoples way of thinking is it any wonder that some republicans feel no need to work within the accepted norms of society or indeed feel no sense of belonging to society.

Its a vicous circle that no side seems willing to break.

spanner

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-


Please just do yourself a favour and stop with the Sinn Féin bashing. We Republicans don't go around saying "oh.. you're a Unionist so I hate you" so why should you do that with us? As a matter of fact I'm friends with some people who are very apathetic about the whole situation up north but it hardly changes my opinion of them.

i am not a sinn fein supporter at all but i do agree with you here. sinn fein have burst on to the irish political scene and as much as i dont agree with some of the actions they support they have been the only party standing up for the working classes, being the only real left wing party. finna fail/labour who usually used to represent the working class have moved away from them to cosy up with the middle classes and the rest of the socialist organisations are a talking shop. now finna fail and labour are scared of the enroads sinn fein are making into the core supporters.

people down south (this includes me) really dont have a clue what has and had happened up north, we know the history of events but we never experienced sustained bombings intimation by security forces and paramilitaries, and it is for this reason i never like to pass judement on sinn fein or any other northern political party up north (inc DUP)

ArphaRima

http://indigo.ie/~1916/flag.html

I much prefer the original flag of irish nationalism anyway. The gold harp on the green background. Much nicer imho. Ours is always the dirtiest most faded looking flag it seems.