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All not well at Old Trafford!
Comments
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by way of comparison, this is like arguing who's best between Aldridge and Keegan, Lineker or Duff, Pires or Scholes.
Is there any point?
For whats its worth, I dont think Henry did anything whatsoever to be proud of in the 02 World Cup, and was hardly a focal point of the 98 winning team. In the PL, he's got to be respected, but I've rarely been impressed with him on the european club or international stage to the same level.
Van N, by comparison, rarely fails to excel in his game on either level.
The point about "experience" is only valid if you consider Phil Neville a better player than S Gerrard.
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Originally posted by SanFranMan
by way of comparison, this is like arguing who's best between Aldridge and Keegan, Lineker or Duff, Pires or Scholes.
Is there any point?
For whats its worth, I dont think Henry did anything whatsoever to be proud of in the 02 World Cup, and was hardly a focal point of the 98 winning team. In the PL, he's got to be respected, but I've rarely been impressed with him on the european club or international stage to the same level.
Van N, by comparison, rarely fails to excel in his game on either level.
The point about "experience" is only valid if you consider Phil Neville a better player than S Gerrard.
Van Nist has done nothing at International level of note so thats half of your arguement out the window.
The other side falls flat too:
Henry was the top scorer for France in both their 98 and 00 winning teams so I dunno how that equates to "hardly the focal point".
As for Henry in Europe, he was one of the main reasons Monaco made it to the CL semi final in '98, scoring 7 goals and is the joint 4th highest scorer in CL since it went to league format.0 -
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Originally posted by SanFranMan
Syke, whether or not Van N has / does / will / not win any international tournaments has no bearing on Henry's record (silly "argument"). For what I've seen (and I dont have any affections for teams any more, the last time I did was Barcelona 20 years ago), Van N rarely dissapoints.
RVN was disappointing last week against Arsenal, he never got into the game.
This season I think Henry has been the better player, and the stats below from SkySports seem to point that out also.
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Originally posted by irish1
RVN was disappointing last week against Arsenal, he never got into the game.
This season I think Henry has been the better player, and the stats below from SkySports seem to point that out also.
So because he had one bad game hes ****e? Henry did very little apart from his goal in that match too.0 -
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Originally posted by Henry_14
It will make a difference if Diego has to play......
You obviously haven't learned from the indignity of having Ian Hart score against you last season..... mwuhahaha
Imagine being booted out of the cup by Forlan
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Originally posted by The Muppet
surprise surprise Wenger says henry is out fergies says Ruud is out , yet we all know both will play . We should be used to mind games by now.
Its theatre more fitting of the WWE to be honest.
I wonder are they on the phonelaughing to each other about it all
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quote:
Originally posted by syke
....debunked for the nonsense they were....
okay Gareth/Syke, have it your way, :dunno:
"I hate the fact that you bring me down to this; I really do, I resent it"
The accusations I referred to as being not worth arguing are too easy to argue. And as this type of posting is quite tedious, I didnt want to engage your nonsense. :rolleyes:
1. I didnt "make" anything up or refer to any "inaccurate information". Any facts I used are referenced. The references to Monaco and Juve stats were made in response to your barking on about his scoring record there.
2. There's nothing illogical about my posts, except the inferences you made to distort my point. I never mentioned the CL in relation to Monaco and Juve stats. That was your distortion, and the (p1ss poor) basis for your supposed "argument". You "debunked" nothing. .:rolleyes:
3. I dont have affections on this topic to blind me to the fact that Henry is far from a complete player, as was suggested. I didnt feel any need to point out Van N's failings because I felt Jank, irish1, and jiveturkey had already done so at length. I "threw all my criticism" (as you put it) at Henry because nobody had bothered to point out the obvious one - he's a choker!! I was balancing the tone, which is not easy around here. .:(
Heres an alternative eye-opening perpective for you:
A few people, myself, Gandalf, GreatKingRat, and LoneGunMan included, injected an occassional dose of sense into this thread by pointing out that the 2 players in question are not easy to compare. My further point was that for what they both "do", I find Henry relatively inconsistent.
You lept on my post out of the pile of partisan pap, and decided to rant, claiming to be picking away at my "argument" (opinion), without actually persuading anyone of anything. Your postings on this thread are rambling and blinkered. If you spent less time posting obviously distorted news reports (on which everyone else seemed to manage to smell the bull), and trying to distort other people's points to satisfy your own frustrations, you might find you can make a credible argument sometime (I've no basis for this, true, but Im still giving you the benefit of the doubt).
The fact that you fail to "respect" my opinion, as you suggest, and engage the fact that Henry regularly flops in big games, is more a reflection on your own mental capacities than anything else at this stage.
Im happy to discuss the relative merits of Henry. But only if you can take your head out of his ars* long enough to talk rationally about it.
We're too old to waste time arguing this way, and I assume you're too old for b!tch-slapping. 0 -
Originally posted by GreatKingRat
Give it a rest Syke, its bad enough watching Henry drown in big games time and again, but this sh!te just antagonises. Admit it, he let us down. Again.
I don't support Arsenal and was dead chuffed for Ranieri last night.
Henry pulled his hamstring which is why he went off.0 -
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Hmm, the words "biased opinion based on uninformed and inaccurate information" are springing to mind Sykes
I know its the official line, but seriously you cant defend his performances this week.
Or do you just pop your head in here to rattle some cages?...........
"only if you can take your head out of his ars* long enough to talk rationally about it."
I like that, maybe I'll change my signature again
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Originally posted by SanFranMan
1. I didnt "make" anything up or refer to any "inaccurate information". Any facts I used are referenced. The references to Monaco and Juve stats were made in response to your barking on about his scoring record there.
2. There's nothing illogical about my posts, except the inferences you made to distort my point. I never mentioned the CL in relation to Monaco and Juve stats. That was your distortion, and the (p1ss poor) basis for your supposed "argument". You "debunked" nothing. .:rolleyes:
I think you'll find that you brought up International and European consistancy.
I cited his CL performances and then as a rebuttal you brought Monaco and Juve in.
If you originally meant domestic performances for Monaco and Juve in still has no bearing on your initial assertions that he doesn't perform in Europe or Internationally.Originally posted by SanFranMan
3. I dont have affections on this topic to blind me to the fact that Henry is far from a complete player, as was suggested. I didnt feel any need to point out Van N's failings because I felt Jank, irish1, and jiveturkey had already done so at length. I "threw all my criticism" (as you put it) at Henry because nobody had bothered to point out the obvious one - he's a choker!! I was balancing the tone, which is not easy around here. .:(
I agree that he doesn't have a good record in big games, but his overall contributions over a campaign or a season is unquestionable. He has scored consistantly in Europe (he is the joint 4th top highest scorer and one a a few to make it past 30 goals).
Internationally, all I said was, consideringhe was the teams top scorer in both 98 and 00 competitions you can hardly say he contributed nothing (which is what you implied).Originally posted by SanFranMan
You lept on my post out of the pile of partisan pap, and decided to rant, claiming to be picking away at my "argument" (opinion), without actually persuading anyone of anything. Your postings on this thread are rambling and blinkered. If you spent less time posting obviously distorted news reports (on which everyone else seemed to manage to smell the bull), and trying to distort other people's points to satisfy your own frustrations, you might find you can make a credible argument sometime (I've no basis for this, true, but Im still giving you the benefit of the doubt).
The fact that you fail to "respect" my opinion, as you suggest, and engage the fact that Henry regularly flops in big games, is more a reflection on your own mental capacities than anything else at this stage.
Im happy to discuss the relative merits of Henry. But only if you can take your head out of his ars* long enough to talk rationally about it.
We're too old to waste time arguing this way, and I assume you're too old for b!tch-slapping.
This is a rather verbose and length bit of name calling which you really needn't have stooped to if your arguement, which has chopped and changed to suit your needs, was as watertight as you suggest.0 -
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"I agree that he doesn't have a good record in big games,"
Well why didnt you just admit it a week ago, instead of tiresomly arguing just because I "find him frequently dissapointing" :mad:
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"in 2002 the whole french team imploded, and Henry was sent off...."
Thats a very tidy 180 from originally being apalled at my suggestion that:
"I dont think Henry did anything whatsoever to be proud of in the 02 World Cup"
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"If you originally meant domestic performances for Monaco and Juve"
Well, yes that would have been the obvious interpretation had you read the
post before going off on a tangent: "he's turned it on big style against poor english defences, but ...." If this is some form of apology for your unfounded accusations that I made it up, then its graciously accepted.
quote:
you can hardly say he contributed nothing (which is what you implied).
No, I said that he was "not the focal point" of the 98, 00 teams, and thats hardly a controversial matter. Again you interpret at will to suit this tenuous notion that somehow you've had a clear train of thought on this thread? :dunno:
quote:
"This is a rather verbose and length bit of name calling which you really needn't have stooped to if your arguement, which has chopped and changed to suit your needs, was as watertight as you suggest."
Its called a paragraph, and I "stooped" to the tone to communicate with you at your level, after previously refusing to be drawn by juvenile taunts such as the following
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Really, are you just making stuff up or are you living in a fantasy land....
Now I *know* you're just making stuff up to argue
- referenced facts?
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You have the least logical arguing style (for the stuff you haven't made up)
ever! ......You can't keep moving the goal posts to suit your argument.
- from a guy who's done a 180 on his original post, a little hypocritical to
say the least
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I'll just finish off with 'I'm right and your wrong', cos I'm the best"
- possibly your most disturbing interpretation yet most telling piece of writing
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its biased opinion based on uninformed an inaccurate information, but hey,
we'll all give your argument the respect it deserves.
- as opposed to these respect-worthy "opinions"?
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van nist has only scored the 2...goals requiring agility and close touches"
or
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"arsenal now are the only team to have come close to their (Spurs 61?!) flair
and pure brillance in england"
Very knowledgable, unbiased, and watertight, Syke. :rolleyes:
You really have no cause for trying to claim a logical or moral high-ground.
I've now noticed on other threads that this is not the only time you have posted flimsy provocative jibes in the absence of having a rational, coherent point to make, so I guess its a lesson for me, and anyone else who didnt already know, that your quips are not really worth reacting to.0 -
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Originally posted by SanFranMan
quote:
"I agree that he doesn't have a good record in big games,"
Well why didnt you just admit it a week ago, instead of tiresomly arguing just because I "find him frequently dissapointing" :mad:
*sigh* that wasn't the initial point I was making. That is quite differentto saying he has done nothing in Europe or internationally, which is what you said originally.
He has done ALOT in europe and internationally, he does bottle it on big one off matches sometimes but I think its due to over reliance on him than anything else.Originally posted by SanFranMan
quote:
"in 2002 the whole french team imploded, and Henry was sent off...."
Thats a very tidy 180 from originally being apalled at my suggestion that:
"I dont think Henry did anything whatsoever to be proud of in the 02 World Cup"
That was a typo. I meant to reference wher eyou said he did nothing in the 98 and 00 cups. If you read my post I originally stated he did nothing in 02, so its hardly a 180 now is it?Originally posted by SanFranMan
quote:
"If you originally meant domestic performances for Monaco and Juve"
Well, yes that would have been the obvious interpretation had you read the
post before going off on a tangent: "he's turned it on big style against poor english defences, but ...." If this is some form of apology for your unfounded accusations that I made it up, then its graciously accepted.
Well seeing as your initial commenst were regarding form in Europe and internationals you'd see where I'd be confused that you start pulling domestic performances on the wing into the equation now wouldn't you? I never defended his league form while at Juve or Monaco, I merely said that he has performed in Europe and Internationals as well as anyone else.Originally posted by SanFranMan
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you can hardly say he contributed nothing (which is what you implied).
No, I said that he was "not the focal point" of the 98, 00 teams, and thats hardly a controversial matter. Again you interpret at will to suit this tenuous notion that somehow you've had a clear train of thought on this thread? :dunno:
Fair enough.... again you originally stated that he had done nothing internationally so it wasn't a huge leap, but if you didn't mean that, the I conceed the point.0 -
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