APTN pictures of attack on Foreign civilians in Iraq

Victor

Originally posted by woody
So they are Merc's or Dogs of War....If they are why should'nt they be there if they help defeat the enemy..

Them not being members of the regular armed forces of a nation would classify them as "illegal combatants" by Bush's definition (and we know what happens illegal combatants).

Memnoch

Originally posted by woody
Those Iraqi's are Barbarians and would do the same to a Peace Keeping Force of the UN.

I'm sorry, why are they barbarians? Do you realise how ancient you sound? Anytime a country invades another the declare the indigenous people to be barbarians that are "uncivilised". The British did it, throughout their empire, the australian settlers did the same on the australian continent, the american's did it to the native americans. Why are they barbarians? Because they speak a different language and practise a different religion than you? Just because the american's use sophisticated weapons to kill 1000s more doesn't make them any more civilised.

Which would you rather Sadam and Total Oppresion and Millions of Kurds and Sh'ites dying or Americans...Me the later...

I'll take secret option 3, a free iraq, not controlled by saddam, but not controlled by a puppet US government with the aim of enslaving and exploiting the iraqi people, all under the guise of "democracy". Again, don't make me repeat this pls... the american's were HAPPY to have Saddam's "total oppression" as long as he did what they wanted him to.. so you REALLY cannot use this whole "liberation" arguement. Has america's actions improved things in Iraq for the average Iraqi? NO it hasn't, and countless Iraqi's have been killed in the interim. If you want more proof look at afghanistan. The american's did their thing and moved on. But those now left in power in Afghanistan are no different from the Taliban, Afghan warlords armed by the US contunining Islaamic rule and oppression in the country. Oh wait, there is ONE thing different about them, they argeed to let the US build an oil pipline through the coutnry, as long as the US supplies them with weapons and money and allows them to conduct whatever burtalities they choose to inflict on the afghan people.

Why were they armed to protect themselves....So a Safari in the Kruger National Park has weapons are they combatants...

errr... sorry... where was the part about how these people have a right to be in Iraq, armed or otherwise? cause i missed that bit. They are there as part of an invading and occupying force

War Crimes, let me see, the majority of this so called crimes are unproven anti-Ally propaganda. And I certain dont see any real evidence...

hmm.. lets see, the "Allies" control the country militarily, they control and regulate the flow of information, where is the "real" evidence going to come on. You will obviously dismiss any "evidence" shown on arab media, off course that is compeltely biased while fox news is completely bi-partisan. I remember reading an article in the Independant, it was a story told by iraqi's about how they were oppressed and abused, US soldiers taking their posessions etc etc etc. What about the "accidental" killing of two iraqi journalists by American troops recently? Hmm, boy that camera looks like a gun, shoot him!!!!! i wonder what evidence these journalists would have presented had they lived?

Those men who died had families, I myself now what it is like to have a loved one die in a foriegn country...

Sure they had families, everyone has families, the 10,000+ iraqi's how died had families, the half a million Iraqi children that died had families. But last I checked, the Iraqi's weren't the ones invading, occupying and oppressing someone else's country.

So they are Merc's or Dogs of War....If they are why should'nt they be there if they help defeat the enemy..

who is the enemy again? If your going to say that the "iraqi's" are the enemy then you first have to prove that the american invasion was justified, which it wasn't. The american's invasion is wrong and illegal. Now sure you can say that they are helping defeat the enemies of the american occupying force and have a right to be there in that capacity. However if they are invaders, then they deserve to die.

Those People who did that yesterday they should be damned to hell as that is the face of evil....WOULD you live with these people in or out of War...Imagine what they would do with you if you were a aid worker...remember they blew up the Red Cross...

The face of evil is george bush and tony blair. Again pls refer to my previous post and compare the atrocities commited by the alies , I see how you CONVENIENTLY ignored my point about the murder of over half a million Iraqi children? I'd love to see you explain how they were barbarians that deserved to die? The Iraqi's don't want occupation, hence they are stricking out at all foreign targets that they can. I won't say that killing red cross people is right ( I already said in my previous post, that killing of reporters and people on a mission of mercy is wrong), but you seem to have the idea that the entire Iraqi resistance is lead by 1 leader or group whereas it is much more likely to be individual groups, banded together against the US out of frustration and desperation, the proof of this is in the way the civillians "celebrated" the death of the Amercan's.

Iraq should be split into three.... The Kurdish Sector and an Independant Kurdish State..The Central Sector for the Sunni's and the Southern Sector for the Sh'ites...

And all controlled like Berlin or West Germany in the Cold War...

ah, yes I can see now how you really have the best interests of the iraqi's at heart all along. divide and conquer yes? I think that the UK should be split in the Britain, Northern Ireland and Wales. Lets also give independence to the Basque seperatists in Spain, and while were at it, I know there are quite a few folks down in Texas who think that Texas should be an independant country....

Saddam had plenty of money to feed and provide for his people and so did the Baath Party Members...

No one is talking about what Saddam did/did not do. He was bad, horrible etc etc etc. no one is questioning that. That however does not justify the actions that the american's knowingly took, that resulted in the death of Iraqi children.

The Iraqi peole the majority of still are very twisted and Barbaric and maybe need a little education in Civilisation and democracy, as otherwise the likes of the Taelban will take over and make the country a torn in the foot of the west...

with this statement you make a final grand display of your ignorance. You want to bring democracy to Iraq like you did to afghanasthan right? GO take a look at what aghanistan is now, please... here i will do you a favor and help you open your eyes.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pilger_breaking_the_silence_35mb.htm

watch this video... and don't post until after you've seen it. you will hopefully be atleast a little educated then.

I have no Sympathy for the Majority of Iraqi people as they dont need to fight, they could have had there country rebuilt by now and be living in peace and slowly having the Yanks withdrawing...Resistance no Murdering Yes.... They are cowards not gureilla's they bomb their own kill children....

Again you lump all Iraqi's into one group. Which is typical of ignorant generalisations that are used to support wrong acts. By your line of logic NO COUNTRY should ever demand independence and peacefully submit to the benevolence of their rules. By your logic, we should all still be a part of one grand British empire spanning the globe. Seriously.. think about what you just said.

PiE

Originally posted by Redleslie
That'd be an awful strange resume for any regular civilian contractor to have.

They could just as easily have been:

http://blackwatersecurity.com/resumescrub.html
Tier 3. Description: Description: An operator with requirement-specific expertise in the skill sets identified below. Minimum of eight years experience in DoD, field operations/construction, or base support functions. Has a current DoD/DoE/DoS clearance or the ability to pass requirements for a SECRET clearance. Retired or released from active duty within the last twenty-four months, or has maintained their skills sets through other independent contracting opportunities. Beyond physical security support Blackwater is supporting remote forward operating base operations.
Field Generator Operations.
Field Fueling Operations.
Water System Operations.
Field Food Program Operations.
Field Sanitation Operations.
Field Construction Operations.

Either way, it's a fine old mess.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by woody
But maybe Israeli style tatics may work to restore Law and Order as Conventional troops such as Marines and Rangers are not suited...

Yeah right. Bulldozing the place to the ground and shooting kids - that's just what Iraq needs right now. And anyway, as was said on Pat Kenny this morning, we Irish have very short memories about killing people and dragging their bodies around the streets. Remember Michael Stone, the IRA funeral and the two army corporals who were killed by a mob in the aftermath? Less of the bleeding heart guff please.

The Allied Forces and their "contractors" reap what they sow.:rolleyes:

bonkey

Originally posted by woody
Those Iraqi's are Barbarians and would do the same to a Peace Keeping Force of the UN.

I'm glad you are such an expert on human psychology and are enlightening the rest of us.

I assume by "those Iraqis" you mean "those who carried out this act" and not "Iraqis in general", because the latter would border on a racist statement.

I mean - how would you feel if people started referring to "those barbarian Iraeli's" because they had an issue with the acts carried out by a small extremist faction of Israel's population?

Which would you rather Sadam and Total Oppresion and Millions of Kurds and Sh'ites dying or Americans...Me the later...

And if you ever have that choice, then I hope you make it that way. However, you are talking about your choice, not theirs, so its hardly relevant to the discussion at hand unless you too have been living under a brutal dictator and have been "recused" by an occupying force who have promised you better things but not produced many of them yet.

No?

Why were they armed to protect themselves

Who? The Iraqi's? One reason would be that the decrease in security unfortunately resultant from the war has made personal security a matter of luck, or being armed.

Those People who did that yesterday they should be damned to hell as that is the face of evil

We are talking about the killing citizens of a nation who took action against people who were brought in to that country by an occupying force to consult on issues of secrity.

If they had just been cleanly killed, it would have been a justifiable act of resistance against an occupying power.

But I do agree that the defilement of the dead makes it an abhorrent act (I tend to try and not use the term "evil" because I find it a bit simplistic).

....WOULD you live with these people in or out of War...

Imagine what they would do with you if you were a aid worker...remember they blew up the Red Cross...

Who? The exact same people as killed the four people yesterday?

I'm beginning to think that "these people" is Iraqi's in general, and not just the perpetrators of this act....

Well, if so....ask yourself this. Would you liberate these people? If you are so set against them, why do you support their continued liberation? Remember - you think they're pure evil.

Iraq should be split into three.... The Kurdish Sector and an Independant Kurdish State..

Which will cause massive upsets with a certain nation to the North of Iraq that the US already have an agreement with that they will not create a Kurdish state.

Also bear in mind that any fair partitioning would result in the Northern oilfields being ceded to the Kurds, which would really enable them to start financing the Kurds in southern Turkey to agitate further for their own independance.

And an unfair partitioning which keeps the oil out of Kurdish hands will only lead to more war and destruction between the Kurds and whoever the oil is handed to.....

As for the Sunni's and Shi'ites....you'd again have problems with the oil-fields. You would have potential problems with Iran. You would have potential problems between the three nations you suggest creating.

But don't let these trivial problems stop your great plan. I'm sure introducing more instability in the region is a great plan....I just can't figure out why at the moment.

The Iraqi peole the majority of still are very twisted and Barbaric and maybe need a little education in Civilisation and democracy, as otherwise the likes of the Taelban will take over and make the country a torn in the foot of the west...

Right. So it is the entire people you're tarring with the same brush.

Coming from someone who constantly seems to interpret criticism of any Israeli action as anti-semitism, though, thats hardly surprising. At least you're consistently failing to see the difference between the acts of a small group, and the population in its entirety.

I have no Sympathy for the Majority of Iraqi people

Of course you don't. You think they're barbaric, lacking in civilisation. You wouldn't want them as your neighbours, and generally seem to tar them all with the same brush.

I'd be astounded if you said you had sympathy for them.

as they dont need to fight, they could have had there country rebuilt by now and be living in peace and slowly having the Yanks withdrawing...

Firstly, the majority of Iraqi's are not fighting, are having their country rebuilt, and are trying to live in peace. Again, you seem to be taking the actions of a few, and attributing it to the many.

You know what you'd be calling it if we were discussing actions by some extremist Israeli minority and not an Iraqi one, and someone generalised about the entire Israeli people based on what we were discussing????
Anti-what????

I cannot believe that in the space of a week, you have been decrying others for such unfair generalisations against your own people, and then appear to have no compunction whatsoever about making similar - if not more damning - comments about the people of another nation.

But getting back to the point....could the minority who
you choose to tar as the majority also do these things?

Sure they could. If they believed that the Yanks would slowly withdraw, not instill a puppet government, etc. etc. etc.

In case you've missed it, the big problem there is that they don't trust the Americans, and whether you think they should or not doesn't matter a toss. They don't trust them.

So, if we consider it from the perspective of those who oppose the occupation , your statement becomes "they could be living in peace, rebuilding their country, and watching the Americans slowly take control of everything they want".

Yeah. I can see that being a really strong argument to use against them.

jc

Havelock

Originally posted by bonkey

But don't let these trivial problems stop your great plan. I'm sure introducing more instability in the region is a great plan....I just can't figure out why at the moment.
[/B]

Obviously to keep an US "Peacekeeping" Force in the Eastern Oil fields, I mean Middle East, whoops.

spanner

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
Well seeing as it wasn't the Iraqi people themselves that bombed the hell out of everything in the first place, you can probably see why they're not too happy.

this synical attiude is all well and good we know the americans have never covered themselves in glory but iraqis must now face it: whats done is done it can not be changed, they can ethier work with the americans and try build a nation were they can live in some from of relative peace or continue down the path they have seemed to have chose of fighting americans and all attempts to reconstruct, ultimely self destruction

Sparks

Yes, it was horriffic to watch, and I'd hate to think what effect it must have on the families of those four men, but to say that it's an inhuman act is a bit far to go - how many years has it been since two police officers were dragged from their car and kicked to death in Belfast? How many since black people were lynched and strung up from whatever was handy in the southern US?

And a more interesting question from a technical point of view is whether or not mutilating a corpse is worse than killing that person in the first place.

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by spanner
this synical attiude is all well and good we know the americans have never covered themselves in glory but iraqis must now face it: whats done is done it can not be changed

Ok. So the same can be applied elsewhere too I assume.
Next time the Americans talk about Septemeber 11th should people just say "these things happen get over it" or if the holocaust is brought up should Jewish people be told "that was ages ago, forget about it"?
You can hardly expect all Iraqis to either be happy with the current situation, or else for them just to grin and bare it.
How would you react if half of this country was levelled by a foreign army and then we're all told to shut up and get rebuilding if there was any objections raised (in any form, violent or otherwise)?

spanner

Originally posted by woody
Those Iraqi's are Barbarians and would do the same to a Peace Keeping Force of the UN.


Those People who did that yesterday they should be damned to hell as that is the face of evil....WOULD you live with these people in or out of War...Imagine what they would do with you if you were a aid worker...remember they blew up the Red Cross...

The Iraqi peole the majority of still are very twisted and Barbaric and maybe need a little education in Civilisation and democracy, as otherwise the likes of the Taelban will take over and make the country a torn in the foot of the west...

I have no Sympathy for the Majority of Iraqi people as they dont need to fight, they could have had there country rebuilt by now and be living in peace and slowly having the Yanks withdrawing...Resistance no Murdering Yes.... They are cowards not gureilla's they bomb their own kill children....

here here

i agree with you totally. like most arab countries they cannot hold a normal civilized society. they need the likes of sadam to keep them in check. the americans really made a bad move invading them, no amount of oil is worth the sh*t storm they have created for themselves. as far as the iraqis goes they have a choice to work with the regime to build a better life, or to choose not more violence, they have choosen the latter well as far as i am concerned they can burn in the fire they have lit.

Memnoch

Originally posted by spanner
here here

i agree with you totally. like most arab countries they cannot hold a normal civilized society. they need the likes of sadam to keep them in check. the americans really made a bad move invading them, no amount of oil is worth the sh*t storm they have created for themselves. as far as the iraqis goes they have a choice to work with the regime to build a better life, or to choose not more violence, they have choosen the latter well as far as i am concerned they can burn in the fire they have lit.

as yes off course. A Normal Civilized society... the US for example where school kids run in and shoot each other with automatic rifles for fun...

What better life?

Answer me one simple question... should Ireland have agreed to stay as a county of england to build a better life under the british regime rather than trying to resist the occupation?

I really didn't realise people could be so ignorant of even the most basic of human principles

spanner

Originally posted by Memnoch

Answer me one simple question... should Ireland have agreed to stay as a county of england to build a better life under the british regime rather than trying to resist the occupation?

with all the glory of 1916 and amazing guerilla war which brought the english to its knees by the heroic micheal collins, at the end of the day with all their bloodshed we ended up with something around about the same as home rulers were fighting for and just about to get us.

two much people glorify violence as the solution, no one is denying great wrong was done to the iraqis but is continuing violence going to write this?

bonkey

Originally posted by spanner
whats done is done it can not be changed,

Its not the past they're trying to shape.

...or continue down the path they have seemed to have chose of fighting americans and all attempts to reconstruct, ultimely self destruction

self-destruction?

Why? What possible reason do they have to think that.

Lets see.....

/me checks map.

Nope - Vietnam is still there. So is North Korea. There's people in them too.

Oh, Somalia is still there as well.

And don't you find it at least coincidental that this latest atrocity is almost a carbon-copy of the images which were broadcast around the world from Mogadishu (and which inspired Black Hawk Down)? The act that was, in Somalia, highly relevant in making the US decide it was time to go home?

Self-destruction? Hardly.

This has all the hallmarks of someone willing to basically "out-bloody" what they perceive as the enemy. If they can't force the US out by force of arms, body-count, attrition, or any other means....which I believe they can't....then they will do it by repulsing them out - make them lose their stomachs through atrocities such as yesterday's.

jc

spanner

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
Ok. So the same can be applied elsewhere too I assume.
Next time the Americans talk about Septemeber 11th should people just say "these things happen get over it" or if the holocaust is brought up should Jewish people be told "that was ages ago, forget about it"?
You can hardly expect all Iraqis to either be happy with the current situation, or else for them just to grin and bare it.
How would you react if half of this country was levelled by a foreign army and then we're all told to shut up and get rebuilding if there was any objections raised (in any form, violent or otherwise)?

these comparsions are unfair, the iraq situation i completely uniqe and i dont think its right trying to draw comparsions with other situations to justify an agruement

bonkey

Originally posted by spanner
like most arab countries they cannot hold a normal civilized society.

History would beg to differ.

But don't let that stop you making such racist remarks.....

jc

sovtek

Originally posted by spanner
i agree with you totally. like most arab countries they cannot hold a normal civilized society.

Actually an Arab country is supposedly the begining of civilization.
That assertion also forgets the fractured nature of the Middle East is due largely to the British empire and the American one since WW2.

bonkey

Originally posted by spanner
the iraq situation i completely uniqe and i dont think its right trying to draw comparsions with other situations to justify an agruement

So thats why you said they were like other arab nations.

Because they're unique, and shouldn't be compared to other situations!!!

Maybe I should stop posting - you seem to be doing a good enough tearing your own arguments apart by contradicting yourself as it is.

jc

spanner

Originally posted by bonkey
Its not the past they're trying to shape.

Self-destruction? Hardly.

This has all the hallmarks of someone willing to basically "out-bloody" what they perceive as the enemy. If they can't force the US out by force of arms, body-count, attrition, or any other means....which I believe they can't....then they will do it by repulsing them out - make them lose their stomachs through atrocities such as yesterday's.

jc

well what you said here i think proves my that it is self destruction, by "out-blooding" the americans are just going to act harsher and harsher on the iraqis. belive it or not the average american soldier and citizen in general sincerely belive they are helping the iraqis(i know they have a funny way of showing it) and are not going to treat the civilian population harsh unless they get treated hard themselves,

woody

How is his remarks Racist this is a great Word you use Bonkey..

The Fact is the large majority of Arab Regimes are both Brutal and Oppresive to their own people and forigeners who work there...ie.. Saudi, Kuwait, Yemen,Oman,Iran,Pakistan,Syria and Algeria just to name a few...

These countries are Barbaric... they use Islam to Decapitate People who commit crimes, Cut hands off in the Name of Islam, Stone Women and Men Adulters to death... Have brutal torture techniques used on the average Joe soap to an "InFidel"

Iraq is no different.... And Yes a lot of people have died there "Iraqi's" but alas by the hand of their own more so...

If a comment is made about Arabs or Islam it is percived as Racist but the fact remains that both the culture and religion is based not on Love or even Fairness but Brutality...There is many sites that explain the Koran from an impartial point of view and it is based on Women having little or no rights, Killing of Non-Belivers of Islam and total brutality....Have a look for them read it then read the Actual Koran and then tell me I am racist....

Spanner I agree with your arguement in total...

And Lets not all forget the Fact these men are still dead and badly mutilated...

And the Comparsion of the North and the Two Corporals taken from the Car after the Members of the Gibraltar IRA Bombing Team were killed is very tame compared to yesterday and I do agree it was brutal aswell..but not to yesterdays extent...

Barbarity is not confined to the Arab but they seem in Iraq to enjoy it...

Originally posted by Memnoch
The Iraqi's do have a mandate to carry out their activities.

I'm sorry but unless you can show me where the people who carried out that atrocity will be going back to the people of Iraq looking for votes/mandate based on it, then you have no basis whatsoever for that statement.
You would also have to prove to me that there was no AlQueda/non Iraqi involvement-can you do this?
Because I can certainly prove to you without question that Bush is going to his people looking for a mandate and the WAR on Terror as he likes to call it is top of his manifesto.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
or if the holocaust is brought up should Jewish people be told "that was ages ago, forget about it"?

Getting off-topic I know, but some would say they already have, judging by what they're doing in the quest for "Greater Israel". Short memories of their own oppression in 1930s and 1940s Europe, eh?

Memnoch

Originally posted by woody
How is his remarks Racist this is a great Word you use Bonkey..

because if someone said that all israelis are barbaric, you and him would probably call them racist? I'm sorry but you must be 12 years old or something if you can't comprehend such basic concepts. either that or you continually purposefully ignore them because you can't provide a valid arguement.

The Fact is the large majority of Arab Regimes are both Brutal and Oppresive to their own people and forigeners who work there...ie.. Saudi, Kuwait, Yemen,Oman,Iran,Pakistan,Syria and Algeria just to name a few...

Isn't it interesting the some of the countries you mention are best friends with the United States? eg Pakistan, Saudi and Kuwait... pls explain this to me? Why is the US being so friendly to these barbarians?

These countries are Barbaric... they use Islam to Decapitate People who commit crimes, Cut hands off in the Name of Islam, Stone Women and Men Adulters to death... Have brutal torture techniques used on the average Joe soap to an "InFidel"

Lets see... the United states, starves Iraqi children to death.. but thats okay..
the United States breaches the geneva convention by holding prisons in Guant Bay, by "creating" a new definition for them, which the geneva convention specifically protects again. The United states exports prisoners to these "barbaric" countries so they can torture these people as its "illegal" to do that in the US. Come on.. really, open your eyes man.. really.. and don't post here again until you watch that little educational video i posted for you..

Iraq is no different.... And Yes a lot of people have died there "Iraqi's" but alas by the hand of their own more so...

lets have some figures pls? Half a million+ iraqi children alone attributable to US and this is PROVEN... god knows how many unproven they are... and just because saddam killed iraqi's or anyone who opposed him, doesn't make it okay for the US to do the same.

If a comment is made about Arabs or Islam it is percived as Racist but the fact remains that both the culture and religion is based not on Love or even Fairness but Brutality...There is many sites that explain the Koran from an impartial point of view and it is based on Women having little or no rights, Killing of Non-Belivers of Islam and total brutality....Have a look for them read it then read the Actual Koran and then tell me I am racist....

Ah yes, now you are the expert on Islam? I suppose you have read a translation of the Koran, as that would qualify you of being able to pass judgement? I can see lots of love and fairness in what is happening in iraq right now... oh yes the love for oil, the fairness....

Spanner I agree with your arguement in total...

off course you do, he is the only other person that continues to make unsupported statements that dont' stand to logical arguement.

And Lets not all forget the Fact these men are still dead and badly mutilated...

but lets forget that they are invaders who are responsible atleast in part for the death's of Iraqi's and deserved what they got.

Memnoch

Originally posted by Earthman
I'm sorry but unless you can show me where the people who carried out that atrocity will be going back to the people of Iraq looking for votes/mandate based on it, then you have no basis whatsoever for that statement.
You would also have to prove to me that there was no AlQueda/non Iraqi involvement-can you do this?
Because I can certainly prove to you without question that Bush is going to his people looking for a mandate and the WAR on Terror as he likes to call it is top of his manifesto.

hmm... i'm sorry, so you are saying that because Bush has managed to convince the american public through lies and propaganda that the US invasion of Iraq was "justified" that makes it "ok"?
Maybe you missed the part about the people of the town celebrating the deaths of those american's? that looks like a mandate too me.. or maybe your missing the widespread resistance throughout Iraq to american occupation. I think that countless dead that America have murdered would probably approve of this "atrocity" as you call it.

Why do I need to prove that Al-Queda/non-iraqi's were involved? I'm not the one making the claim that they ARE. The burden of proof is on you here. If the American's are going to claim that Al-Queda is responsible, let them provide the proof.. so far they have provided none, other than repeating "these bombings are the hallmarks of Al-Queda".. for all we know the bombings of Iraqi civillians could have been set up by the american's themselves to weaken support for the resistance and rule the country through division.

What you can prove to me, is that the majority of the American public is ignorant of the true facts of the War OF terror, or the state of Afghanasthan as it is now since its "liberation" to "democracy". Or what about the fact that a study conducted by the University of Maryland shows that the majority of American's are wrong about atleast 1 crucial fact of the war in Iraq?

woody

Those men did not deserve what they got..MAN!

That Video was total BS... MAN!

No I have not read a Translation MAN... I come from a Mixed Family Christian/Jew and have read it Entirely.....


My arguements are valid MAN! as you are an Armchair Critic that most likely has never been in action or being in the Middle east.


Persons in CUBA are TERRORISTS and Should be Keep there until the are no LONGER... They are Terrorist and have no problem blowing themselves up in the Name of ALLAH MAN!

Come with me to Israel or even Iraq....Maybe you will change your tune...

Your Ignorance about the death of men like them is disgusting and your agruements are FLAWD MAN!

Mighty_Mouse

At least one of the men were alive when they were taken from the car and burned alive. Iraqi rebels kicked the head off one. Dragged behind a car through the town. As the bodys were hanging on the bridge people passed by as normal.

When the mutilated bodies were taken down they were attacked by children with knives.

During this attack yesterday that nobody came to help, police, helicopter, marines etc ....
The americans are saying that things are getting better. But voilence is getting worse. The amount of american patrols have had to be reduced in order for Bush to reduce the amounts of American casulities before the election.

The palace that Paul Bremer is staying in is being mortar attacked everynight!!! Every American controlled buildings from airlines to buildings etc etc are still under attack. This is AFTER the war is officially over!!!!!!!!!!!

The place is really unsafe and crazy at the moment. Its crazy that the americans ever went into Iraq.

This war is not over by a long shot!!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

AmenToThat

I think we are missing one important point here.
Sure it was resistance fighters (from which faction within Iraq is anyones guess) who carried out the attack on the "civilians".
BUT it was the local people who carried the bodies through the streets and indeed hung two of them from under a bridge, without, from what the tv pictures showed to many locals objecting to the sickness.
That says more to me about how things are going in that one particular part of Iraq than the attack on the convoy itself.

spanner

Originally posted by Memnoch


Isn't it interesting the some of the countries you mention are best friends with the United States? eg Pakistan, Saudi and Kuwait... pls explain this to me? Why is the US being so friendly to these barbarians?

no one is trying to defend american foreign policy. the above countries are prove that if you play ball with the americans you can reap the rewards. i was againist the war in iraq but what i am agruing about is what is this country going to do for the future

Lets see... the United states, starves Iraqi children to death.. but thats okay..

lets get one thing straight it was because of sadam that these children died. america was following a U.N resoultion for sanctions. as much as you try to make america out to be the most evil regime around they are not.

the United States breaches the geneva convention by holding prisons in Guant Bay, by "creating" a new definition for them, which the geneva convention specifically protects again.

this i agree with you

The United states exports prisoners to these "barbaric" countries so they can torture these people as its "illegal" to do that in the US. Come on.. really, open your eyes man.. really.. and don't post here again until you watch that little educational video i posted for you..

i hope i am getting your point here are you trying to say that america exports its criminals to arab countries so they can deal with them because if you are you really want something to back that up. if you belive this amazing theory you really need to open your eyes and take a break from your constant selfrighteous american bashing because its getting to your head

lets have some figures pls? Half a million+ iraqi children alone attributable to US and this is PROVEN... god knows how many unproven they are... and just because saddam killed iraqi's or anyone who opposed him, doesn't make it okay for the US to do the same.

PROVEN? again i make the point sadam killed these children through his own actions. if we mangaged to follow your way the world would be dealing with iraqi as a normal country and allowing sadam what ever he wanted, without any sanctions

Ah yes, now you are the expert on Islam? I suppose you have read a translation of the Koran, as that would qualify you of being able to pass judgement? I can see lots of love and fairness in what is happening in iraq right now... oh yes the love for oil, the fairness....

well i hope you can enlighten us on the koran. i dont claim to be a knowledge on the koran but from what i can see it is like the bible you can gain any meaning from it.

off course you do, he is the only other person that continues to make unsupported statements that dont' stand to logical arguement.

hehehe well i am gald to see i am in good company then with yourself

but lets forget that they are invaders who are responsible atleast in part for the death's of Iraqi's and deserved what they got.

[/B][/QUOTE]
well by this reckoning all the iraqi people are going to deserve what they get for this violent acts they have commited on the americans.

face it you arguement promotes a cycle of violence which will only cause more iraqi and american familes to loose loved ones. at this stage both sides need to work together so as not to cause any more bloodshed

AmenToThat

Originally posted by spanner
here here

i agree with you totally. like most arab countries they cannot hold a normal civilized society. they need the likes of sadam to keep them in check. the americans really made a bad move invading them, no amount of oil is worth the sh*t storm they have created for themselves. as far as the iraqis goes they have a choice to work with the regime to build a better life, or to choose not more violence, they have choosen the latter well as far as i am concerned they can burn in the fire they have lit.

If I lived in a country that had suffered ten years of crippling sanctions.
Probably had at least one of my family members who was conscripted into Saddam Hussains army killed by American forces in either this military campaign or the first gulf war.
Was subject to random degrading searches on a daily basis, and on any given occasion the boot boys (marines) comming through my front door with guns raised in the death of night I cannot say how I would react either.
Doubt if Id welcome them with open arms though.

Btw Im not trying to justify those actions yesterday just saying that there are two sides to every story.

spanner

Originally posted by AmenToThat
If I lived in a country that had suffered ten years of crippling sanctions.
Probably had at least one of my family members who was conscripted into Saddam Hussains army killed by American forces in either this military campaign or the first gulf war.
Was subject to random degrading searches on a daily basis, and on any given occasion the boot boys (marines) comming through my front door with guns raised in the death of night I cannot say how I would react either.
Doubt if Id welcome them with open arms though.

Btw Im not trying to justify those actions yesterday just saying that there are two sides to every story.

i can see your point, there is a lot of anger and hurt in iraq towards sadam and america and the current high handedness by the americans doesnt help.

but lets look at what america wants, they want a friendly government in iraq which will keep supplying the world with loads of oil (similar to that in kuwait). its not like when britain invaded countries so that they could occupy them, the american army doesnt want to stay in iraq, as one american said "we just want to fight the wars and come home". i belive that america wants to establish a stable democracy in iraqi(whats going to happen if the iraqis vote a government that they dont like god only knows what will happen) and leave.

what i cant understand is why are the iraqis so hell bent on destroying everything just so as to get one back on the yanks?