Ireland Team

Idbatterim

After watching last nights match i was quite impressed. We are a good team, but some players arent up to scratch. First Matt Holland, i mean any of you who watch Irelands matches will know what im talking about when he does a dissapearing spell for entire halves. He has to be dropped to the bench. Secondly play Harte instead of O'Shea. We need someone who is a set piece specialist and he has good distribution from the back. I wonder of O'Shea would be playing for Ireland if he didnt play For Man Utd. And up front we need an alternative to Morrsion, he wouldnt be bad as a sub, but we need a new Quinn. It also annoys me when i hear the commentators saying how close Keane is to breaking Quinns record and if they think hell break it. He wont break it, hell destroy it, hell break it easily before this year is out with the amount of matches we have, friendlies and qualifiers. I mean well be playing cyprus and the faroes for christ sake. Are they bloody serious? Id say hell get atleast 40 internation goals!

Seaneh

Originally posted by Idbatterim
After watching last nights match i was quite impressed. We are a good team, but some players arent up to scratch. First Matt Holland, i mean any of you who watch Irelands matches will know what im talking about when he does a dissapearing spell for entire halves. He has to be dropped to the bench. Secondly play Harte instead of O'Shea. We need someone who is a set piece specialist and he has good distribution from the back. I wonder of O'Shea would be playing for Ireland if he didnt play For Man Utd. And up front we need an alternative to Morrsion, he wouldnt be bad as a sub, but we need a new Quinn. It also annoys me when i hear the commentators saying how close Keane is to breaking Quinns record and if they think hell break it. He wont break it, hell destroy it, hell break it easily before this year is out with the amount of matches we have, friendlies and qualifiers. I mean well be playing cyprus and the faroes for christ sake. Are they bloody serious? Id say hell get atleast 40 internation goals!

I agree, I think it's scary how bad of a player Holland is.

woosaysdan

yeah but who else can we play instead of holland?

Seaneh

Originally posted by woosaysdan
yeah but who else can we play instead of holland?

Delap, Miller, Reid, Kilbane (played well at centre last night) in fairness we have a few half decaint choices.

I still think O'Shea would be a great midfeilder, very strong, good on the ball, good passer, fast...

johnor

I reckon Holland is up to it, I think he preformed well in the WC and has done as well as any Irish centre mid since. Dont think Miller hs found his true position yet, dont think he will find it with united too soon either. I thouhgt Kilbane had a mare last night, for me he was quite, lost the ball easily & didnt look like the player he has been for Everton. Reid has made a positive start and Hopefully next year he progresses more, premiership defo on the cards. Delap looked like he was up for it last night, havent seen him play much this season so cant say much about him...think he might have played well due to the cracker he got at the w/e, confidence etc. Can't see O'Shea moving to midfield, there'd be more pressure on him and he hasnt done well for United or Ireland this year. Still think Harte has alot to answer in terms of defending & considering the other full backs (finnan & carr) I dont think he deserves a place at left back, set-piece or not. Felt that freekick was always gonna go in, do need someone in the team with that ability, maybe duff could try his hand at em....has the ability id say.

Also, thought morrison did quite well, looked lively apart for the football in the groin. Think i would prefare to see morrison up front than Connolly, Lee; would prefare to see Duff in the midfield as he was the main outlet last night, thought Keane worked well from him, maybe morrison was a lil off the pace with some of the balls keane sent across the box n that...

john

Draupnir

Talkin through your arse if you think Kilbane was quiet and Holland was decent. Did you not notice Holland doing a disappearing act for 60 minutes? As for Andy Reid, he tends to drift in and out imo and I thought their left winger matched him easily and kept him out of the game.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Seaneh
Delap, Miller, Reid, Kilbane (played well at centre last night) in fairness we have a few half decaint choices.

I still think O'Shea would be a great midfeilder, very strong, good on the ball, good passer, fast...

My first choice in the middle would be Kavanagh TBH. We can't have such an attacking line up, even though Kavanagh is attacking for his club he can hold the midfield together well.

For Quinn's replacement, Alan Lee is perfect.

johnor

He might not have played out of his skin the other night but I do think he is the best we have for the centre, I saw kilbane loose the ball alot more than anyone else, reid lost it a bit too which you cant really be doing at international level. Look at the Kennys throw out to kilbane, he lost the ball when Ireland needed to keep it most there....few other times he lost it around the box n that but to be honest, I cant see him being a great centre mid for us..

eirebhoy

Originally posted by johnor
He might not have played out of his skin the other night but I do think he is the best we have for the centre, I saw kilbane loose the ball alot more than anyone else

Holland didn't lose the ball because he didn't bloody touch the thing. I posted this in another thread and I'd like you to look at it too.
http://foot.ie/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=276

Draupnir

You cant blame Kilbane for the Kenny throw out incident, your man was up his arse and it was a ridiculous throw out. I just wonder sometimes when Im on the terrace at Lansdowne or even down in Dalymount whether or not some fans have ever played serious 11 a side football or if they just like to kick it against their back wall and watch Match of the Day.

Kilbane was above average, Holland doesnt seem very interested or maybe he just isnt up to it at this level.

StickyMcGinty

you want ireland to play a passing game, and then your looking for a replacement for niall quinn?? morrisson works his ass off all the time and i think him and keane are the best 2 up frount.

without holland we wouldnt have got very far in the world cup, so dont be giving out about his past performances. i thought he was good in the midfiels, and the role of an anchor man IS to go missing, he supposed to be the "all guts, no glory" player of the team.

i like the look of this team, and after being to the canada, brazil and czech game, i like the format that kerr has built, of building a team from the defence up!

as long as we get through the romania game in may (and no ganea tackles hopefully) i reckon we'll be well set for the qualifiers.

any one else think the crowd created a real poor atmosphere at the czech game? i thought it was a real "ticketmaster" crowd!?!?!?

woosaysdan

i have to agree with you there vinny!!!

eirebhoy

VinnyL, you thought Holland had a good game? Forget about his 20 minutes in defence what else did he actually do other than maybe 2/3 (literally) short passes?

woosaysdan

but he can be a great player when he is up for it! well maybe not great but good

Draupnir

miller is better than Holland period

GeorgeBush

yeah but who else can we play instead of holland?

We can ask one of the Under 21's ..only joking..


To be honest Miller,Reid,O shea have yet to produce the goods for Ireland so its open season until they do...

Ireland defintely look a good side even with such a limited players,

Ireland defence is pretty good, the midfield can be sorted out, we create a lot of chance and are starting to play some good futball

Duffer is on another level and IF reid can add balance to the side then its going to look very nice indeed..

BUT keane on his own isnt going to win irelands matches. Up front is the biggest problem for the irish side.

Clinton Morrison looks like the only real option to partner keane.. But he needs to sort himself out and put some of those balls in the net.. Some parts of his game have improved but count the number of sitters he missed and it could have been 3 or 4 - 1. In international football you dont get many chances, we really need another striker or Clint to sort his footwork out and be a bit sharper on the ball..


Ireland look like they will put a few noses out of joint if they can manage to sort out attack...

on a side note...What is the story with the Guiness Book of Record amount of back heels in one match...

johnor

Can't say that miller is better than holland, Miller came on for what 20 mins?, hasnt played much recently for celtic. I reckon people are saying he is better than holland cos he is young & heading to old trafford. Holland has the expierence and is playing for a good premiership team week after week.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by johnor
Can't say that miller is better than holland, Miller came on for what 20 mins?, hasnt played much recently for celtic. I reckon people are saying he is better than holland cos he is young & heading to old trafford. Holland has the expierence and is playing for a good premiership team week after week.

Judging from the last 10 matches (excluding the Canada game), anyone is better than Holland. If he won't put the work in he doesn't deserve a place on the bench. Forget how good he is for Charlton, he's muck for Ireland and we have so many players to replace him (ie. Delap, Kavanagh).

Draupnir

Delap is another obvious replacement then if you dont fancy Miller just yet. Delap is playing better for Southampton week in week out than Holland does for Charlton.

Also, Delap did more in 15 minutes than Holland did against the Czech's

iasc

harte instead of o'shea...youve got to be kidding me, just because he scored a goal, he's absoloute dire, always out of position, and is with leeds for gods sake

wynters

I'd play....

Carr-Cunningham-Dunne-Finnan

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O'Shea

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Miller

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Reid

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Duff

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Keane---Doherty

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It's a choice from 3 to partner Kenny from O'Brien, Dunne or Breen. They're all good on their day, but Dunne gets my vote for the performances he's already put in for Ireland, particularly the 2 Dutch games. He's never let us down, and is currently finding his form again.

It's the same up front, either Morrisson or Doherty to partner Robbie. It's the 'hold the ball up' role, so for that I'd choose Doherty. He's not the smoothest of players I know, but he's been VERY effective for us in that 2nd strikers role. His knock downs & lay offs could really work with a midfield as attack minded as that. Gives us another option up front too for Duffs crosses that we wouldn't get with Clinton, and without him in there we'd have no height whatsover from midfield up......

Andy Reid looks a class act. He's 2 footed aswell so he can turn either way, making space for himself. His vision, awareness & range of passing make him ideal for a central spot.

eirebhoy

O'Shea seems to be getting his confidence back too but I'd like to see Finnan at LB against Poland but I'd say Kerr will play O'Shea since he missed the Czech game.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by wynters
I'd play....

Carr-Cunningham-Dunne-Finnan

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O'Shea

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Miller

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Reid

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Duff

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Keane---Doherty

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It's a choice from 3 to partner Kenny from O'Brien, Dunne or Breen. They're all good on their day, but Dunne gets my vote for the performances he's already put in for Ireland, particularly the 2 Dutch games. He's never let us down, and is currently finding his form again.

It's the same up front, either Morrisson or Doherty to partner Robbie. It's the 'hold the ball up' role, so for that I'd choose Doherty. He's not the smoothest of players I know, but he's been VERY effective for us in that 2nd strikers role. His knock downs & lay offs could really work with a midfield as attack minded as that. Gives us another option up front too for Duffs crosses that we wouldn't get with Clinton, and without him in there we'd have no height whatsover from midfield up......

Andy Reid looks a class act. He's 2 footed aswell so he can turn either way, making space for himself. His vision, awareness & range of passing make him ideal for a central spot.

You can forget about Doc up front, he is settled at the back and doesn't like playing up front, he doesn't even try when in that position. Alan Lee is better than Doc up front and has all the you were describing.

O'Shea in midfield, maybe in a few years but ATM Delap and Kavanagh should be way ahead of him for that role.

Other than that, it looks fine to me. I agree with you about Dunne too.

iasc

thats a terrible lineup, doherty is a big muppet, morrison instead of him, 3 in midfield...thats suicide, maybe it would be better if keane were there instead of reid, but u cant expect andy reid to handle two international midfielders

GeorgeBush

It's the same up front, either Morrisson or Doherty to partner Robbie. It's the 'hold the ball up' role, so for that I'd choose Doherty.

Andy Reid looks a class act. He's 2 footed aswell so he can turn either way, making space for himself. His vision, awareness & range of passing make him ideal for a central spot.

Doherty isnt great up front and long ball days are gone.

When had Reid put in a performance for Ireland????

irish life

Originally posted by iasc
thats a terrible lineup, doherty is a big muppet, morrison instead of him, 3 in midfield...thats suicide, maybe it would be better if keane were there instead of reid, but u cant expect andy reid to handle two international midfielders

He has 4 in midfield.

iasc

no he has 3....THREE, not 4

Draupnir

he has 4, he is plauin O'Shea as a defensive midfielder, thats FOUR, 4

iasc

he;s playing them as part of the defence, hes a defender not a midfielder, what would john o shea be doing playing as a midfielder, why dont ya put robbie keane in goal ffs

Draupnir

O'Shea played centre mid for Uniteds youth teams loads of times and he played for the seniors in the League Cup earlier this year and last year in the middle

iasc

yeah that was last year a couple of times, when they were still moulding them...i hardly think if he's playing week in week out as a left back for united, theyd play him in the midfield.....

Draupnir

don think this convo is about O'Shea, playin him in Midfield is just this chaps opinion thats all

eirebhoy

What do you all think should be our starting lineup for the qualifiers?

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Given

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Carr

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Cunningham

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O'Brein

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Finnan

Reid

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Kavanagh

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Kilbane/Miller

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Duff

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Keane

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Lee/Morrison

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Others in with a decent chance:
O'Shea
Dunne
Doc
Delap
and probably a few young players like Elliot and Flood.

BTW - It looks like we will be palying a little 3 team torunament with Jamaica and Nigeria at Loftus Road. We will play the 2 teams in between the Romania match and the end of May and the Holland match at the start of June. So thats 5/6 more friendlies before the Cyprus match in September, maybe to early to predict.

Draupnir

Id go with that team Eirebhoy, although I liked Doc at centre half, his height is an advantage at set pieces, both defensive and offensive.

Also, Id love to see Elliot get a run out.

iasc

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Given

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Carr

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Cunningham

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Dunne

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O'shea
Delap

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Reid

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Miller

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Duff

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Keane

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Morrison

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Maybe not now, but definitley for the future

GeorgeBush

ireland needs a proper youth scheme to train the soccer stars of tomorrow. ..

There seems to be plenty of options except for up front... whats the U-21's like?? is there anyone coming through????

iasc

well reid and miller have just come over from the under 21's, and the under 19's seem to have a pretty good team, they played well in the youth world cup

Oswald Osbourne

I agree completely with the initial poster especially with regards to John O'Shea.

No one can deny Harte isn't up to much in defence but then neither IMHO is O'Shea and the latter offers nothing exceptional in attack either besides the odd surging run down the flank that invariable comes to nothing.

Actually, I can't remember O'Shea having a single noteworthy game for Ireland since he debuted. In fact the only lasting memory I have of his international career thus far was his shambolic performance at CB v Switerland last year that would have made some of even Harte performances look acceptable. Perhaps in time O'Shea will make one of the Centre Back slots his own and not leave us with this current LB connundrum but his current inclusion at LB is robbing us of one of our best goalscoring sources.

Bottom line is Ireland look clueless at free-kicks when Harte isn't playing and that is enough for me to let him have the Left Back slot. If O'Shea played as consistantly as Carr does on the other flank then there MIGHT have been a case to keep him in at the expense of Harte but the simple fact is that he doesn't and for what Harte lacks in defence he more than compensates in an attacking sense.

//

Other players I'd like to see the back of are (of course) Matt Holland and (contraversely) Shay Given. No explaination needed for Holland as it's all be said on this thread but I for one have no confidence in Given either as an organiser or commander of his box. Fair enough he's an agile shot-stopper but by my memory he seems to frequently get beaten from shots outside the area and worryingly has more than his fair share of clangers (as Baros's goal last Wednesday highlighted once again).

That said tho, the team are going in the right direction.

A.N.Other

Carr - Breen - Cunningham - Harte

Reid - Kavanagh - Kilbane - Duff

Lee - Keane

iasc

given is amazing, u gonna replace him wth fat boy kenny thats stupidity, given plays against the best strikers in the world, in one of he best teams in the premiership, andy reid on the wing, whats wrong with delap, hes playing week in week out for southamptoon, and pretty good too. Kilbane...tries hard, but is just muck. I hardly think u can put lee in there ahead of morrison

iasc

Oh and Gary Breen....jaysus, do you know anything about football

johnor

I dont think OShea deserves a midfield role at all, he lacks ideas with the ball, last season he was amazing moving down the left with united but this year he just pumped the ball long at every oppurtunity. Im a manu fan and I dont like the idea of him in midfield, I think he would play well as part of a back three, but thats a whole different Thread . Id still play Holland ahead of Delap, Miller etc. I think Kavanagh would be my next choice after that to partner Reid who I reckon looks the part with a few more games; thought he linked up decently with Robbie & Duff.


john

JippoKelly

Delap in the middle instead of Holland. Delap has been known to occasionally pass the ball forward unlike Holland. :rolleyes:

As for Andy Reid, he was pretty poor against the Czechs. The guy is naturally a left sided midfielder. We already have Duff there, so unless he can prove he can play on the right he should be a sub and no more.

Harte may have scored but he I'd stick with O'Shea at left back. He might not have played well in his last few matches for Ireland, but he can defend unlike poor Ian (he still looks shockingly low in confidence).

And as for up front, it's a toss up between Morrison and Lee. Morrison's finishing might not be up to scratch, but he works hard and can hold the ball up well. He also has a good touch and a few tricks in his locker (that sounds like something Big Ron would say;)). In saying that, Lee did well when he came on. He has more physical presence than Morrison and might win more flick-ons for Keane and even Duff to get on to. He's worth giving a decent run in the next match.

GeorgeBush

the under 19's seem to have a pretty good team, they played well in the youth world cup

any 1/2 decent strikers coming through??

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by iasc
Oh and Gary Breen....jaysus, do you know anything about football

More than you buddy I'd wager. Whilst you're off picking the best (on paper anyway) players (not counting Dunne of course ) I'm picking what I consider on evidence to be the best 'team'. If you think the key to managing a successful international team is to just stick out your 11 most high profile players without any consideration how different players fulfil different roles and compliment each other then I suggest you get back to playing championship manager - or failing that put your name down for the job of next England manager.

Originally posted by iasc
andy reid on the wing, whats wrong with delap, hes playing week in week out for southamptoon, and pretty good too. Kilbane...tries hard, but is just muck.

Like you say Delap is 'pretty good', problem is that's all he's ever gonna be. Reid has already shown that he has massive potential and more imporantly excellent passing vision, something we were previously lacked.

Originally posted by iasc
I hardly think u can put lee in there ahead of morrison

If you want to break the world record for 'most back-heels in a game' then by all means stick with the Morrison-Keane combination. I on the other hand would prefer to see a potent strick force and the few Lee-Keane cameos to date have impressed me more in a few short months than Morrison teamwork has in 2 years.

Originally posted by iasc
given is amazing, u gonna replace him wth fat boy kenny thats stupidity, given plays against the best strikers in the world, in one of he best teams in the premiership,

Eh, please at least read my posts before replying to them. I never suggested Kenny for goalkeeper. At this point in time Given (unfortunately) is the best we've got. Of course we had a fella who was better but he was never given a look in and probably justifiably threw the towel in. The guys name was Dean Kiely and if I had Kerrs ear I'd get him to BEG Kiely to come back and take the #1 shirt. The stuff he does week in/week out for Charlton makes Given look like the merely above average goalie he is.

iasc

Oswald, u have kilbane and kavanagh in midfield, that just proves you havent a clue. And Reid as a right winger....i dont even know what you're thinking there. Reid should be playing central midfield..with delap as well. Brain Kerr is building his team for the future and will get rid of McCarthys mistakes...Breen,Kilbane. And as for Harte, the only thing he did in the czech game was score, he was sloppy going forward, one dimensional, hoof the ball, maybe like o'shea, but at least o'shea can defend, and i'll bet you'll see o'sheas true potential coming through in the next few games

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by iasc
Oswald, u have kilbane and kavanagh in midfield, that just proves you havent a clue.

I pick Kavangh and Kilbane in cental midfield therefore I have no clue? Brian Kerr and their club managers musn't have a clue either cos that's where they also play them - and to good effect. Our centre midfield needs players who can throw their weight around as as well as play a bit of football and K+K are the two players we currently have who best fit that description.

Originally posted by iasc
And Reid as a right winger....i dont even know what you're thinking there. Reid should be playing central midfield..with delap as well.

Should he? Well you'd better tell your hero Kerr that before he makes that mistake again.

Originally posted by iasc
Brain Kerr is building his team for the future and will get rid of McCarthys mistakes...Breen,Kilbane.

Ya think? Doesn't look that way considering he's played Breen in 10 games and Kilbane in 13 since he took over last year. But then I'm sure you know more than even Kerr when it comes to football and that is quite something in itself considering you've already given the gaffer the nickname 'Brain' :rolleyes:

Originally posted by iasc
And as for Harte, the only thing he did in the czech game was score,

Yes players who score are just so counterproductive to a teams ambitions.

Originally posted by iasc
he was sloppy going forward, one dimensional, hoof the ball,

As opposed to O'Shea?

Originally posted by iasc
maybe like o'shea, but at least o'shea can defend, and i'll bet you'll see o'sheas true potential coming through in the next few games

Read my lips - O'Shea has no potential. He had a great breakthru season last year with United and looked like a prospect but this season I've seen no sign of him improving in the slightest and truth be told I think he's actually moving backwards this season in terms of development imho. Ireland still leak as many soft goals when he's playing as when he's not so he really doesn't make any net contribution. Just because he is a ManUnited player doesn't automatically make him some world class talent.

iasc

Everton play kilbane on the left wing when they play him...he's just dirt...no imagination..he works hard, but is terrible. Kerr only played breen when he took over because as he said himself, didnt want to change things during the european qualifiers. And so Ian Harte is going to score in every game is he..doubt it. Theres just no arguing with fools like you. Why you want bad players in the team is beyond me. The thought of Kavanagh and Kilbane in the centre....lol...your an idiot

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by iasc
Everton play kilbane on the left wing when they play him...he's just dirt...no imagination..he works hard, but is terrible.

Players like Reid, Keane and Duff give you all the 'imagination' you'd ever want so it doesn't matter how technically limited Kilbane is. What I want in the middle is players who can run themselves into the ground, tackle, harass and generally make it hard for the opposition to get moves going.

Originally posted by iasc
Kerr only played breen when he took over because as he said himself, didnt want to change things during the european qualifiers.

Well if that's your theory then why is Kilbane still playing every game? Also Breen was unavailable for last few matches for various reasons anyway, so you don't know if Kerr would have picked him or not.

Originally posted by iasc
And so Ian Harte is going to score in every game is he..doubt it.

No, but there are these things in football matches called 'corner kicks' and 'free kicks' and having a player who can deliver them well is usually an advantage. That's primarily why I want Harte. Getting the odd goal too is just a bonus.

Originally posted by iasc
fools like you. + your an idiot [/B]

Now that's not very nice! Disagree with my opinions all you like but throwing insults isn't warrented. Moderators, I thought there was a new policy to say 'down with this sort of thing'?

iasc

Fair enough about kilbane being a hard worker, but i rekcon miller is a grafter, plus he's got great skill going forward...3 goals in the champions league is no walk in the park. Duff can take corner kicks. Having a player purely on the pitch so he can take a free kick is pretty stupid

Draupnir

Iasc pal, buddy, chum, you shouldnt go slagging people blatantly with stuff like your an idiot, fool etc. and say they know nothin about football if you dont think Kilbane played very well in the centre on Wednesday and right now he is playing very well as a hard working midfielder. Its what we need if Duff and Reid are gonna piss off up the wing on their beautiful mazy runs.

I always reckoned Kilbane would be a good left back cos he is very strong defensively.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by iasc
Oswald, u have kilbane and kavanagh in midfield, that just proves you havent a clue.

Iasc - Why are you getting so worked up about a bloody football debate? From what I read Oswald knows a lot more about football than you so I can't believe you are saying stuff like that. For example: "Everton play kilbane on the left wing when they play him", Everton play Kilbane in the centre when they play him (every game he's available).

If you think the key to managing a successful international team is to just stick out your 11 most high profile players without any consideration how different players fulfil different roles and compliment each other then I suggest you get back to playing championship manager - or failing that put your name down for the job of next England manager.

That just sums iasc up completely. If Kavanagh can get back to his best after his injury he should be one of the first players on the team sheet IMO.

"but i rekcon miller is a grafter, plus he's got great skill going forward"
even Brazil have to play one or two holding midfielders, you seem to just want to attack from what I hear.

I disagree with Oswald that Given is a bad keeper, if you asked any Englishman they would want to have him instead of James and most people would vote him in the top 5 keepers in the prem. The Baros goal was offside and also handballed but Given should have done better. As for iasc's comments about Kenny, Warnock said he wouldn't swap him for anyone including the big boys in the premiership, that speaks for itself.

I wouldn't agree with your inclusion of Breen but I certainly wouldn't laugh it off, He is about 30 now and we will need someone at the bavk with a bit of experience when Cunningham retires. Also, Cunningham was often slated when he played for Ireland and as far as I remember Breen was ahead of him in the team for the world cup, look at Cunningham now. Experience is everything with a centre half.

Someone asked about U-21's/19's, Stephen Elliot was probably our best player in the U-19 championship's. He plays for Man City and has a hard task to get past Anelka, Fowler, Berkovic and Macken. One of those players will leave in the summer and Elliot should get a chance. He came on for the last 2 minutes to make his league debut Against Bolton and Keegan rates him very highly. As far as I remember (maybe someone can confirm) he scored a hatrick on his U-21 debut.