Turning a Private Residence into a Business Premises

kida

Not sure if this is the correct place to post this - move it please if it is not.

The scenario is this - a person in our estate is planning on turning one of the houses into a full time business premises(i.e. not living their also). Is there anything that can be done to prevent this? I assume they will have to apply for planning permission first. I assume the origian planning permission was granted on the grounds of it being a domestic residence.

vinnyfitz

Its highly unlikely that a private residence in a housing estate (is it a purely residential estate?) would be allowed be turned into a business premises in these circumstances. You are correct it would need planning permission.

Even creches often don't get permission in such circumstances.

Check with your local authority planning department as to what is going on. One of their jobs is "planning enforcement" under which they can instruct people to return premises to their appropriate use.

Of course if your neighbour's new business is the running of a brothel that's another matter.

Keeks

Not really a 'Green Issue' so moving it over to BEF




but to give some sort of answer to the question. It all really depends on what the business is and how it would effect the residents in the estate. For example if someone was setting upa software company with a couple of programmers using the premises as an office then it would probably be ok. It would be differnt story if it was someone setting up a computer shop with peopl coming in and out of the estate to it possibly endangering children playing there.

There are a lot of factors that have to be taken into account such as what the business is ( i know a denal technican who works out of his kitchen), where it is located within the estate (i know an estate where the owner of the frst house in it converted the garage into a small corner shop), and how do the other residents feel about it.

Victor

If someone is merely operating a home office (little likelyhood of visitors, few deliveries) there is no problem.

However if there are people coming and going (shop, hair dresser, doctor) or activities unsuited to a residential neighbourhood are being carried out, e.g. a woodshop which could produce noise and dust, planning permission would be needed.

If there is no neighbourhood centre, some local services (shop, hair dresser, doctor) might get planning permission. It is likely that a small creche (8 children) would be looked on very favourably, but a larger one would need to be in a neighbourhood centre.

Converting a house or apartment to offices would require PP as (a) it removes a habitable residence (b) is likely to cause traffic.

kida

Its going to be a large creche - approx 30 kids form what we are led to believe.
This would mean a large influx of traffic twice a day. It is located fairly deep into the estate.

Is planning permission generally granted for a creche of a certain size.

Victor

This sounds like it would need PP.

Originally posted by kida
Is planning permission generally granted for a creche of a certain size.

They would have to specify occupancy for the fire certificate and for their health board registration. I'm not certain what the PP would specify, but it would be open to the council to specify a maximum number. Given that it's within an estate they are also likely to make stipulations regarding traffic implications, parking (staff and customers) and so on.

My initial suspicion if "It is located fairly deep into the estate" that the council would be slow to approve a creche for 30 kids (+4 to 10 staff). Councils want to approve creches, but not necessarily like this.

vinnyfitz

Mmm guessed it might be creche.
You'll find this issue has come up with planners in your area before.
Contact the planing office, ask them what the policy in the development plan is, what guidelines they evaluate creche applications against....
Anyway, I hope you can see your way to supporting it unless it is a particularly egregious case.
I live (and work) two doors away from a large creche and it causes me no problem at all.
This country needs a lot more creches. Far too many are thwarted through neighbours objections.

(Just by 2 cents)

slave1

30 kids
you need 1 staff for every 2 newborns - up to around 9 months/a year
you need 1 staff for every 3 toddlers/preschoolers

you're looking at 10 staff mimimun

Victor

Originally posted by slave1
30 kids
you need 1 staff for every 2 newborns - up to around 9 months/a year
you need 1 staff for every 3 toddlers/preschoolers

I thought it was 1/3 up to about 2 and 1/8 after that....

Specky

Interestingly pretty much every planning application I see for new residential developments (and I see quite a few) has provision for a creche somewhere within the development, either as a seperate building or built on to one of the structures being proposed. If such a provision wasn't made in the estate where you live and the population of your area is poorly served by such facilities you may find your local authority would welcome such an application.

You don't seem very happy about the situation...you obviously don't have kids. Do you really think it's going to be much of a problem to you? Won't you be out at work all day when the kids are there?

BrianD

It dosen't negate the need for full planning permission for the change of use from residential to commercial. Just because an area needs a creche does not mean that any location can be used!

kida

Just about to write the objection.

Just for the record - its not a new estate and after further research the council does not look favourably on people doing this and are supposed to adhere to the following guidlines.

Guidelines

A creche usually starts about 8.00 and has constant traffic until 9.30 - more traffic at the early pick -up and more at the later pickup. If a full house is going to be a creche then thats a lot of staff - a house at best has 2 parking spots. Do the kids in the area not have the right to play in a safe environment.

Victor

Well isn't a creche a safe play area? It's a matter of balance, if the children using the creche are from the estate, there shouldn't be a huge amount of extra traffic, however the larger the creche the more likely it is to have children from the surrounding neighbourhoods and further afield.

kida

The estate is pretty small so its unlikely there will be many kids from the estate attending.
I don't have anything against creche in general as long as they are planned for. Thats why new esates of a considerable size usually have one planned in and I assume parking, location etc are factored in. This is a large creche deep in an estate, with no infrastrucure in place to cater for it. Asuuming they all drop off at the same time thats probably 20 cars(thats prob a low estimate) parking outside 1 house.

kida

Heres some reasons given by South Dublin County Council for turning down a different application(for the same thing)

link