Genric Rap Song

TrickyRicky

This link is quite interesting.....its a Princeton university reseach paper entitled"P-unit Generic Rap song"

in it, the students have made up a generic rap song which can also be listened to, while in the paper they dissect lyric by lyric the meanings of the rapper's sayings.

it's a bit of a piss-take but nevertheless the more you read down it, you realize that they are speakin the truth.

im not the biggest fan of rap, i think it bland at best, but even i recognise that 15 or 10 years ago rap was better, now it has become generic,mainstream and cliched. the typical rapper is young,american,black,male,uneducated,and grew up in "the hood". (although incresingly they are coming from more salubrious areas-the equivalent of someone from blackrock pretending to be from tallaght)
Rappers are now being churned out by record labels at the same rate as teeny-bopper boybands, the only difference being that instead of crooning about first dates or unrequieted love, the rappers are rapping about bling,bullets and bitches.
basically rap has degenerated into hardman pop music that scumbags like to have blaring from their fiat puntos while they drive at 50mph in 2nd gear with the trademark "L" plates.

i predict people will get bored in the next couple of years and a new genre of music will come into vogue.
diehard fans of rap may find this paper offensive or sacriligious but even they cant deny that rap has degenerated into banality when compared to 10 years ago.

heres the link........enjoy

http://www.princeton.edu/~rmoore/punit/

Cannibal Ox

It would seem to me your creating your views from MTV, the radio etc.

You should probably realise that judging any genre on those "people" you see on MTV is a serious mistake.
I mean, if you think Good Charlotte represent punk...

Maybe you should do a little bit more research into the genre before deciding that Hip Hop is generic, mainstream and cliched.
(okay, so yeah...lots of mainstream, and yes, I'll agree most of that is bull$hit, talentless tripe churned out purely for Record Execs to add a few more thousand to their bank accounts, but Hip Hop is not purely mainstream thank christ)

(of course, I could be wrong, you never said what you've heard/listened too)

Oh, as for the paper, I laughed my ass off it's true.

TrickyRicky

yeh the paper is quite funny alright had a good old laugh at it.

well obvously ive heard the mtv tripe but my m8 is a hardcore fan so ive heard a good bit more than the mainstream in his gaf and car, but although its edgier and fresher than generic mainstream, its message and vocals still follow most of the "rules".

and no i dont think good charlotte represent punk, the clash and ramones represent punk.......good charlotte and its like, sum 41 blink 182 etc arent punk, but they are a variety of it, sort of a diet coke, politically correct version of it.

bottom line is seems more groups are sounding all the same in certain genres,and rap is no exception, no matter how hard it tries to be

Klimseven

jesus...this is one of the most ignorant things I've seen in a long time....

those phuking stupid middle-class suburbanite white wine-drinking twats should get a life, seriously...

TrickyRicky

whoa matey your probably white too, given the majority of this country's population is i didn't write the paper, i came across it on the net. and yes im proud to be a middle class suburbanite, like most people in this country, cant handle someone "dissin" rap?

Kold

No, it's bad for rap. Don't get me wrong, the mtv bs is the most harmful thing. You won't appreciate anything if you don't want to. **** you. Who are you to disrespect something that we love. We could dissect the music you listen to but we don't care to. We don't have to defend our music. Just do yourself a favour. Light up a joint and put on Makaveli - Don Killuminati The 7 day theory.

Rap is poetry and just because a lot of the mainstream stuff you hear is about guns and gangstas don't think you can put it all under the same umbrella.

echomadman

I read that paper a while back. tbh its not saying anything that a lot of rappers havent already said through the years.

from Dead Prez : Hip Hop
Dont think these record deals goina feed your seeds and pay your bills
Because they not
Mcs get a little bit of love and think they hot
Talkin bout how much money they got
All yall recods sound the same
Im sick of that fake thug r&b rap scenario all day on the radio
Same scenes in the video, monotonous material

see also Gil Scott Herons Message to the Messengers

now, as for this

basically rap has degenerated into hardman pop music that scumbags like to have blaring from their fiat puntos while they drive at 50mph in 2nd gear with the trademark "L" plates.

People who drive Fiat Puntos can hardly be held up as paragons of good taste and ambassadors of a musical genre, these are the same scummers who up to a few years ago were blaring whatever "Ibiza uncovered" shit they could find.

A few Labels/producers have hit on a market for bland formulaic pap and are milking it for all its worth, this has pushed the Signal:Noise ratio in the genre through the roof.
There is still a lot of good music being made, Its just not being played on MTV et al and as such isnt reaching the wide market of boy racers and wannabe gangstas.

I got into Rap/hip hop and dance music between 91-93, before both genres really exploded comercially, I still love both but they have been swamped with one hit wonders and been watered down to suit mass market tastes.

In time these people will as you said, find a new "latest thing" to get into and we can all get back to enjoying quality music in small quantities instead of utter shit in industrial quantities

Makaveli

I think Blackalicious pretty much summed up exaclty how mainstream "rap stars" act in the song Deception.

This is a story of a kid his name is Cisko (Cisko)
Who made more money than the Count of Monte Crisco (Crisco)
He lived a lavish style of life, fast money women cars
and he liked to frequent bars pubs and discos (discos)
Made his living as a world famous rap star (rap star)
When he first started mic respect's what he was af-ter (AF-ter)
And so he got inside his mind, day and night, and he'd write
constantly his art and craft he'd try to mas-ter (MAS-ter)
Started winnin local battles and his rep grew (rep grew)
Gave his crew a reputation as the best crew (best crew)
And what life would do to him, all the cards that was hard
pen and ped, stress relief would be his refuge (RE-fuge)
Paid his dues, doing shows, now he's on track (ON track)
In the lab, pumping demos, makin songs fat (SONGS fat)
Then he quit his nine to five, finally his time arrived
when he signed a major label record contract


His first single was a overnight success hit (success hit)
And now he went from wearing rags to the best fits (best fits)
All his new acquitances, gassed his head, takin it
to the point where he lost proper perspective ('spective)
Started cuttin off the people he came up wit (up wit)
Ego blown like his soul had been ab-ducted (ab-ducted)
Though his heart was once real, now material has filled
up his world, and he couldn't get enough of it (get ENOUGH of it)
Used to wanna be the best of the rap dons (rap dons)
Now his only one concern is goin plati-NUM (plati-NUM)
And his skills has since decreased, and the inner hunger ceased
Now content, just as long as fame and cash come (CASH come)
He's a Big Willie now, rappin bout cars (bout cars)
Thousand dollar shoppin sprees, hangin out with stars (out with stars)
I mean just a year ago, he was broke, bummin money
Drinkin out the 40 bottle, livin outdoors


Second LP, my rap changes fast (changes fast)
Here today, gone tomorrow, now his label passed (label passed)
Now the new poster boy, with the hip now sound
second time around everything isn't stable as (stable as)
It once was, now he's lookin for the same hit (SAME hit)
But his sound is played, he forget to change wit (CHANGE wit)
Them old hit rhymes, no one feelin him, his rhymes ain't appealin
anymore, and his records ain't sellin **** (ain't sellin ****)
Now he's dropped from his label, and he's goin broke (goin broke)
Tried the underground return, ghetto pass revoked (pass reVOKED)
And the same faces that he dissed, on his way, to the top
laughed as they watched him do the downstroke (DOWNstroke)
Now the moral of the story is that some go (some go)
Why would money make the inner vision crumble? (crumble)
So if you're blessed with the talent, utilize it to the fullest
be true to yourself and stay humble

Don't let money change ya

I haven't read the whole article yet, but as said already it's more than likely all based on MTV rappers. Which gives a skewed vision of the genre. It basically ignores the entire Hip Hop community and focuses on the shite that MTV pumps out.

Originally posted by Kold
No, it's bad for rap. Don't get me wrong, the mtv bs is the most harmful thing. You won't appreciate anything if you don't want to. **** you. Who are you to disrespect something that we love. We could dissect the music you listen to but we don't care to. We don't have to defend our music. Just do yourself a favour. Light up a joint and put on Makaveli - Don Killuminati The 7 day theory.

You need to stop taking it so personally. That's twice now I've seen you take this point of view when someone slagged rap. Water under the bridge, it will always happen no point getting so defensive all the time.


Oh and as for a "generic rap video". Well they're about a decade too late. The Roots already have that done in the What They Do video. A classic by the way.

TrickyRicky

exactly, i wasnt launching into attack on rap,like i said i didn't write the paper. i'm just pointing out some obvious truths which both fans and observers of the genre alike know about.

Certainly i admit my knowledge of rap is basic @ best, so i knew that the paper might offend some hardcore fans who might resent an outsider presenting an objective view on the topic.

it's a forum for debate and if people can tolerate alternative views on a topic close to them, they'll become closed minded and protective of their views.

isn't real rap about freedom of expression, like all music?

Klimseven

cant handle someone "dissin" rap?

Don't be stupid. What I "can't handle" are some ignorant pretentious twats 'dissing' a culture they know nothing about (besides the MTV mainstream bull$hit exterior) and have never been involved in. I pointed out the white thing because there is often a notable trace of racism and superiority within these 'criticisms'. I agree more than anyone, mainstream hip-hop is $hit...actually, it's not hip-hop, it's pop music disguised as 'urban' and performed by black puppets of enormous money generating corporations. What I'm pissed off with is people who know nothing about it taking the piss...fair enough if (for example) Blackalicious or any other respected artist who has paid his dues and knows what he's talking about criticises the state of the game (which the underground does all the time...yes that's right..the 'underground', there's more to hip-hop than ludicrous and Nelly...or even rap) but not these people. They should just do their phuking research, that's all...

TrickyRicky

hey tell it to the princeton students who wrote the paper. they may know a bit more about the current culture or mood being from America. But i don't know for sure.

like i said I only provided the URL to the paper, with the intention of creating a debate on the issue, rather than this forum exclusively promoting one view.

Klimseven

oh yeah, and hip-hop is a culture....not a music genre. That's a popular misconception. Hip-hop includes breaking, DJing, emceeing, graffiti, beat-boxing...etc. It's an underground culture which is WORLDWIDE. A lot of today's best hip-hop doesn't come from the states (notice I'm talking about all elements of hip-hop...not just emceeing). To really understand and appreciate the culture you have to be involved in it...you have to be, otherwise you don't know what you're talking about and will come off sounding like an idiot. Hip-Hop as a culture is not widely publicised (thank God, otherwise every little b-boy wannabee fubu athletic wearin mom buys his kangols and fat-laces fool would be involved and would ruin the culture completely), and therefore what the mainstream accepts as 'hip-hop' is usually totally misconceived and plain wrong. Hip-hop is all about originality, that's why this mainstream generic bull$hit is so misreprosentive (sp?) of the true spirit of hip-hop. True hip-hop can't be marketed and sold so it's less well-known than the MTV $hit...whatever...bleh, I'm tired...

TrickyRicky

have u actually been involved in any of these activities? i (i'm not knocking them, just asking) to me it seems a lot of hardcore fans are quick to agree with the fact that the MTV stuff is shíte but always seem to point out the "underground" elements or differerent aspects of this "culture" i doubt heavily Ireland has a big or even medium sized hiphop "culture" due to our size and genral musical,etc tastes. So are you involved in the Irish seen or just defending the "true" hiphop "culture" that you may have come across in the various media?

Klimseven

^^^ that just proves my point. The scene is so underground that nobody outside it knows about it. To answer your question, yes, there is an underground hip-hop scene in Ireland...and a thriving one too. Despite your assumptions, there is an awful lot of talent here. The TDA clan are Irish (one of Europe's best graf crews), there are TONS of fantastic turtablists (DJs who use the turtables like an instrument...ie scratching, beat juggling, etc) here...in fact, last year's ITF WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP (International Turntablism Federation) was won by DJ Flip -- from Dublin. DJ Tuki (Irish) was in the DMC (the biggest turntablist competition) WORLD FINALS in 2003 (top 13). There are also many good b-boys I know here, and emcees too. And yes, I myself am heavily involved in the culture. I'm a writer (that means 'graffiti writer')...and a damn good one too tbh. I've been writing for many years now and am in various up crews ('up' meaning our names are 'up' a lot...or we 'get up' a lot...graf terminology, whatever). I'm also a turntablist/DJ but am relatively new to that compared to graff. I'm a DJ for a group of emcees (one Irish, one German, one French :eek: )...but we're still new and workin on honing our $hit. So no, I'm not an armchair, passive commentator on hip-hop...I'm heavily involved in it. Thanks for proving my point btw, unless you're involved in it...you won't know about it and shouldn't talk about something you know nothing about or you'll come off sounding like an idiot. It's a lifestyle, and you have to live it to understand it...

TrickyRicky

is that last remark an insult?

i constantly re-iterated the fact im an outsider, so i'm not "showing my ignorance" i was only commenting on what i've seen about rap/hiphop (so far) and my opinions on it. i was only presenting my views, which happened to be articulated very well by that paper, on the tip of the iceberg.

Kold

What about your "Yeah, you have to admit hip hop today is really **** and samey" remarks? You even admitted that you are disrespecting it, you didn't write the paper but you're flaunting it and attempting to persuade us that it's right. You're not going to understand us and you're not going to understand hip hop with the attitude you're taking so why bother even replying?

Makaveli

Ah for Christ's sake, you'd swear hip-hop itself was on the line.
How the fuck is he trying to persuade us that the paper is right? Please point out in this thread where he has pushed his view points on how the paper is right.

And Klimseven the high and almighty hip-hop crusader shut the fuck up. You'd swear you were being oppressed. So underground we don't even talk about it in case outsiders might hear about it and enlarge the community, wa wa wa it's mine and I don't want to share it.

Kold

Originally posted by TrickyRicky
might resent an outsider presenting an objective view on the topic.
the more you read down it, you realize that they are speakin the truth.

im not the biggest fan of rap, i think it bland at best, but even i recognise that 15 or 10 years ago rap was better, now it has become generic,mainstream and cliched. the typical rapper is young,american,black,male,uneducated,and grew up in "the hood". (although incresingly they are coming from more salubrious areas-the equivalent of someone from blackrock pretending to be from tallaght)
Rappers are now being churned out by record labels at the same rate as teeny-bopper boybands, the only difference being that instead of crooning about first dates or unrequieted love, the rappers are rapping about bling,bullets and bitches.
basically rap has degenerated into hardman pop music that scumbags like to have blaring from their fiat puntos while they drive at 50mph in 2nd gear with the trademark "L" plates.

There.
Objective my ass.

echomadman

You're not going to understand us and you're not going to understand hip hop with the attitude you're taking so why bother even replying?

Good tell him you never asked to be born, and storm off to your room..

ffs lads ye sound like nu-metal "hate my life" teenagers.

TrickyRicky

well its hard to be purely objective when such shít is rammed down ur throat in tv,radio,in certain pubs and clubs, and even on the street.

Klimseven

And Klimseven the high and almighty hip-hop crusader shut the **** up. You'd swear you were being oppressed. So underground we don't even talk about it in case outsiders might hear about it and enlarge the community, wa wa wa it's mine and I don't want to share it.

I never once made out like I was oppressed. I don't see what pissed you off so much about what I said. I never claimed to be an 'almighty hip-hop crusader'. I was just trying to point out that there's more to hip-hop than what this paper whinges about. And then TrickyRicky came back with a 'yeah but you're not involved either so what do you know' response and I was just pointing out that I am. Jesus, lighten up.

lobsterstag

You dont know **** about hip hop/rap, so your "m8" is a hardcore fan, what does he listen to? 50 cent? obie trice? **** off back to your snoby house in foxrock

TrickyRicky

just showin your ignorance i'm not from Foxrock, i'm not even from dublin, see how angry these boyos get when you "attack" rap/hiphop and rush to generalise where your from because of it.

for the record its Bray

Makaveli

Originally posted by lobsterstag
You dont know **** about hip hop/rap, so your "m8" is a hardcore fan, what does he listen to? 50 cent? obie trice? **** off back to your snoby house in foxrock

Shut up. It's spas like you that make the rest of us look like spas.
What has Foxrock got to do with anything? Do you live in the ghetto therefore making hip-hop more real to you than anyone else?


Hey Klim, any chance you could post up some pics of your work? I'd love to see them.

TrickyRicky

well stated

Klimseven

...jesus ppl, seriously, lighten the phuk up...

Makaveli, I'll post some of my stuff, if you really want to see it...I'm just not too crazy about letting my identity be known given that graffiti is illegal and all...but whatever, I'll post $hit soon...