The Feckin Government

Wrestlemania

I have noticed over the last few years, what type of government could replace our current one and if it is replaced are there any viable and somewhat honest parties that could do a better job.

In the years of the Current Fianna Fail government we have been led to believe that the Celtic Tiger has been making us all that little more well off and have better jobs and more pleasing way of life...

To me it was an illusion brought on not in total by McCreevys over spending and government mismangement of funds....

Who could do a better job, make the likes of the LUAS,METRO and everything else more cost efficient...Sort our Illegal Immigration problem, Health Care issue and reduce the price of general living as to be honest it has gone out of control and 10 quid these days does not go as far as it did before..


The Below parties or the opposition, which would you think would make a good coaliton, I have noted my own and like to find out what would be workable:


1. The Greens, to me they are the typical left wing party but to be honest are one of the few parties that stick to there principles but mind you never voted for them.

2. Labour, these guys are no longer the Hardcore Socialists that they were and are merely champange Socialists and have the Democratic left in there ranks now but to be honest makes no real difference.

3. Sinn Fein, me I am anti-IRA and this party but I believe they are that small bit better than berties boys at least they admit they are gangsters.

4. The PD's....Muppets and basically Fianna Fail with a different name..

5. Fine Gael, Weak party we leadership again Muppets

6. Fianna Fail, Berties boys have a good old ride for a while maybe the need to be knocked off there perch and knocked into Purgatory for the next few years...

Opinions Please

Villain

1. The Greens, A party that will never change, some of there principles are very good, but a lot are just too far out there.

2. Labour, Great leadership, I think Rabbite is a good performer in the Dail, a little quiter of late but he asks the hard questions and doesn't let Bertie away with loose answers

3. Sinn Fein, My first preference, a party that will grow and grow, very good people at the grass roots, expect a big gain in local elections, Gerry is an excellent leader.

4. The PD's, shower of fools, McDowell is the biggest muppet in the Dail.

5. Fine Gael, Poor Leadership for years now, Noonan done damage that will take years to mend, not a viable opposition option, corrupt

6. Fianna Fail, A party that has failed the Irish people on so many occasions, there last election manafesto is one big lie, corrupt

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sleepy

Can I suggest a new party? One headed up by Michael O' Leary. Someone who understands economics and how to do things for what they cost and not a cent more. Yes, he'd need some leftwards balancing so maybe throw him into a coalition with Labour and the Greens (being the only two parties whose motives I trust in Ireland).

irish1: are you prepared to ruin the countries economy and ruin everything else in it for the sake of sub-Fianna Fail colloquialism and a one policy party?

star gazer

The government: had seven years and look like they have run out of ideas. Fianna Fail are FiannaFail and the PDs are propping them up which isn't going to help their electoral progress, if the lose votes again like the last general election, the medium term looks perilous, in the short run McDowell will relish being minister for justice and mary harney will probably rest on her laurels unless a move springs new life into her political ambition.

The alternative fine gael labour and greens: Fine Gael the weak link right now, but showing tentative signs of being a credible political force again, Labour are motoring very well in the Dail but the political reality on the ground battling with sinn fein and fianna fail for votes will squeeze what otherwise could have been another spring tide, the greens are a potent political force for their size and look ready for government, but will have to drop a militant edge to be acceptable in mainstream politics.

Sinn Fein... at a peak right now and should sweep up a big increase in council seats... can they maintain that momentum to the next general election in the face of a much more beligerent fianna fail political machine.

Villain

Originally posted by Sleepy
irish1: are you prepared to ruin the countries economy and ruin everything else in it for the sake of sub-Fianna Fail colloquialism and a one policy party?

I offered my opinion, not a solution:)

Sleepy

That's right, vote for terrorists and then wash your hands of them. Very smart.:rolleyes:

Villain

Originally posted by Sleepy
That's right, vote for terrorists and then wash your hands of them. Very smart.:rolleyes:

Are you referring to me, if so back up your comment with quotes coz I'm not sure what your referring to.

I would give my first pref to Sinn Fein, but I'm realistic and realise they would not get enough seats to hold governement nor is their many party's which would go into coallition with them.

Now don't bother posting one liner slags, offer an opinion to the deiscussion.

Victor

Originally posted by Sleepy
One headed up by Michael O' Leary.

No, I don't think I could agree to that. If he implemented the same economic model on government services as he has with Ryanair we would end up charging fees for processing your Child Benefit application.

Wrestlemania

It would be nice to see say a Labour/Green and Sinn Fein alliance again I am not pro Sinn Fein but it would be an unusual experiment to see what could happen..

I dont agree with Sinn Fein on the illegal Immirgration aspect as to be honest it is a problem out of control and in all fairness totally reversed as the real Refugees are being branded with the same brush as the likes of the Nigerians,Russians and Romanians to name a few...

We need a change unless this country will slip into the canyon of oblivion..

When is the Next general election ??? Sooner the better!

Sleepy

Originally posted by Victor
No, I don't think I could agree to that. If he implemented the same economic model on government services as he has with Ryanair we would end up charging fees for processing your Child Benefit application.

My point is the man understands how to spend money wisely, something none of the recent governments have managed in my memory. Ryanair operate by making sure there's not a euro spent where it shouldn't be. This keeps costs (i.e. tax) low and service levels are pretty respectable. If the same mentality were put into the running of the country, we wouldn't see our taxes wasted on ridiculous PR exercises, unnecessary jets or Mary Harney's make-up.

I believe we shouldn't have politicians that are completely clueless as to how to run a business as, in certain respects, a country is a similar thing. Income comes in and it should be spent as wisely and effectively as possible to get the maximum benefits for the company's shareholders (us).

When most of our politicians don't seem to know how to run a country pub, never mind a country it's very difficult to have any faith in them.

Sleepy

Originally posted by irish1
Are you referring to me, if so back up your comment with quotes coz I'm not sure what your referring to.

I would give my first pref to Sinn Fein, but I'm realistic and realise they would not get enough seats to hold governement nor is their many party's which would go into coallition with them.

Now don't bother posting one liner slags, offer an opinion to the deiscussion.

I apologise, I'm new to the politics board and still getting aquainted with the etiquette. I just can't understand how someone could consider Sinn Fein as worthy of a first preference. Honestly, I expect the next government to be a FG, Labour, Sinn Fein coallition but that's just a judgement based on what I see around me... It's not a government I'd want because I honestly don't feel I can trust a party that are so intrinsically linked with terrorism that use propaganda so well. So, I ask, not as an insult, but as a genuine question: why can you consider them for your first preference?

Villain

Originally posted by Sleepy
I apologise, I'm new to the politics board and still getting aquainted with the etiquette. I just can't understand how someone could consider Sinn Fein as worthy of a first preference. Honestly, I expect the next government to be a FG, Labour, Sinn Fein coallition but that's just a judgement based on what I see around me... It's not a government I'd want because I honestly don't feel I can trust a party that are so intrinsically linked with terrorism that use propaganda so well. So, I ask, not as an insult, but as a genuine question: why can you consider them for your first preference?

I've explained my voting reasons in many threads here before do a search in this forum and you'l find them easy enough.

I can understand how some people see SF's link with terrorism as an obstacle, but I like a lot of what they stand for, (not all I'l admit that).

SF may have links of the kind mentioned, but what about all the corruption within FF and FG. Gilmartin's evidence has convinced more than ever not to vote for FF.

capistrano

Originally posted by irish1
SF may have links of the kind mentioned, but what about all the corruption within FF and FG. Gilmartin's evidence has convinced more than ever not to vote for FF.

So, Gilmartin gave fifty grand to Pee Flynn... and Gadafy gave 1000 tonnes of Semtex to Gerry Adams and co. Not to mention the money going to Sinn Fein from hijacking and sale of bootleg cigarettes, and the racketeering, and the punishment beatings, and the outright murders!

irish1, you should get things in perspective.

I personally could never in good conscience give any vote to SF. By their actions they have cast themselves outside the ordinary standards of civilised politics.

I am not an FF supporter, have never voted for FF, but I would happily give them my number 1 if the only alternative ewas SF, or as a tactical vote to keep SF out.

daveirl

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Villain

Originally posted by capistrano
So, Gilmartin gave fifty grand to Pee Flynn... and Gadafy gave 1000 tonnes of Semtex to Gerry Adams and co. Not to mention the money going to Sinn Fein from hijacking and sale of bootleg cigarettes, and the racketeering, and the punishment beatings, and the outright murders!

irish1, you should get things in perspective.

I personally could never in good conscience give any vote to SF. By their actions they have cast themselves outside the ordinary standards of civilised politics.

I am not an FF supporter, have never voted for FF, but I would happily give them my number 1 if the only alternative ewas SF, or as a tactical vote to keep SF out.

I never said Sinn Fein were perfect, I was asked my opinion and I gave it.

Theres a lot more to Gilmartins evidence than the payment to P Flynn and we'r only in part 1 now.

I see things very well in perspective, now I'm not about to go start defending why I vote for SF. I've done it on many many occasions here in the past and it gets a little tiring.

To say you would vote FF just to keep SF out is a bit silly.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
. You don't like McDowell because he's anti-Sinn Féin, I don't see how that makes him a muppet. McDowell is one of the best politicians in the country IMHO, and will make a good Tainiste next time out

He is Minister for Justice, he has ranted and raved about SF's connections to illegal activity, has 1 person been convicted??

Isn't it a tad bit odd that the Minister for JUSTICE can make these claims and not be able to convict these people???

Great Minister my ass;)

capistrano

Originally posted by irish1
To say you would vote FF just to keep SF out is a bit silly.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Anyway, as for other parties. It annoys me when people call the PD's ultra-right wing or even fascist. Give me some evidence.

To me, the PD's are a typical liberal party; the believe that people should take responsibility for their own actions. This is a principle that is sadly missing from the policies of Labour/Greens/SF who tend to blame everything on "The Government".

Liberal parties believe that the state should do all in it's power to give everyone a fair chance to provide for themselves. This would of course mean providing decent state education and healthcare so that people can achieve their maximum potential.

The other side of the coin in law and order. People are responsible for their own actions and when they break the law, the state should not let them get away it this.

I think many in FG have liberal instincts but, the party inevitable leans left because it's only potential coalition partners are further left than itself.

FF is a party that has a shameful past, but I really think that the PD's have had a great influence in this government and in the previous one.

I would still be afraid that if FF had an overal majority they would slip back into their bad old ways.

I would be prepared to give a FG/PD/Lab coalition a chance.

Sparks

Originally posted by Sleepy
My point is the man understands how to spend money wisely, something none of the recent governments have managed in my memory. Ryanair operate by making sure there's not a euro spent where it shouldn't be.

Such as safety...

And besides, MO'L is also famous for running Ryanair as tightly as possible while at the same time taking huge amounts of cash out of the company for his own pocket. So effectively you're looking for a second CJH...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

capistrano

Originally posted by Sparks
Such as safety...

And besides, MO'L is also famous for running Ryanair as tightly as possible while at the same time taking huge amounts of cash out of the company for his own pocket. So effectively you're looking for a second CJH...

Frankly, you talking arse!

Ryanair have an exemplary safety record and their fleet is much newer than most airlines.

MOL has sold shares he owns in the company. His salary/bonuses are pretty low compared to other top CEO's. They're his shares, surely he's entitles to sell his own property.

Sparks

Originally posted by capistrano
Frankly, you talking arse!

I'm afraid not.

Ryanair have an exemplary safety record and their fleet is much newer than most airlines.

And they turn their aircraft around too fast to properly check them, they have taken off in crosswinds above the recommended limit stated by the manufacturers of the aircraft they fly, and if you cut spending and time and put pressure on the airline as MOL has done, then eventually it's going to come back and kill a few hundred people. And there's a very dodgy relationship between them and the Irish Aviation Authority.

MOL has sold shares he owns in the company. His salary/bonuses are pretty low compared to other top CEO's. They're his shares, surely he's entitles to sell his own property.

Indeed he is, it's just that it says a lot about the man proposed as the solution to Irish governmental problems that he sells off his shares on a regular basis.

Sleepy

Thanks for beating me to that point Capistrano.

My views on the various parties?

Fianna Fail - Corrupt, incompetent, only kept in government because they're owed so many favours from local favours and jobs for the boys.

Fine Gael - Pretty ineffectual and a dying breed

Labour - Basically an honest party that, while they have some good ideas about social politics (in terms of Education and Healthcare). However, I think they're weak on law and order.

PD's - again, I agree with Capistrano on the PD's in terms of their stance that people should be responsible for their own actions. They largely seem to have a bettr understanding of economics than many of the other parties but they seem to be lacking on social conciense and frankly, I don't trust Harney after hearing her "personal grooming" bills.

Sinn Fein - too closely linked to terrorism and I distrust any party that uses propaganda so well.

Green Party - Well meaning and hard to argue against a lot of their principles but some of their policies are a little far-reaching

So, basically my choice for the next government would be a 3 way coalition between Labour, The Greens and the PD's to reign them in with a bit of reality. It's far from an ideal government but the best I can see given our current choices.

Sleepy

Originally posted by Sparks
I'm afraid not.
And they turn their aircraft around too fast to properly check them, they have taken off in crosswinds above the recommended limit stated by the manufacturers of the aircraft they fly, and if you cut spending and time and put pressure on the airline as MOL has done, then eventually it's going to come back and kill a few hundred people. And there's a very dodgy relationship between them and the Irish Aviation Authority.


Indeed he is, it's just that it says a lot about the man proposed as the solution to Irish governmental problems that he sells off his shares on a regular basis.

Can you back up your claims of Ryanair's safety infractions?

The fact that he sells his own shares when the share-price is high shows that he knows good financial management in his personal life. And surely the fact that he's worth a fortune makes him less susceptible(spelling?) to the bribery demonstrated by so many of Fianna Fail's "finest"?

Victor

Originally posted by Sleepy
And surely the fact that he's worth a fortune makes him less susceptible(spelling?) to the bribery demonstrated by so many of Fianna Fail's "finest"?

Haughey was also worth a fortune, didn't stop him.

capistrano

Originally posted by Victor
Haughey was also worth a fortune, didn't stop him.

Haughey wasn't worth a fortune, that was his problem. He was constantly in debt and so he maybe had to do a few favours so his rich mates would bail him out.

capistrano

Originally posted by Sparks
if you cut spending and time and put pressure on the airline as MOL has done, then eventually it's going to come back and kill a few hundred people.

Indeed he is, it's just that it says a lot about the man proposed as the solution to Irish governmental problems that he sells off his shares on a regular basis.

Tell me of one serious Ryanair safery incident.

It makes perfect financial sense for MOL to diversify his financial portfolio by selling some Ryanair shares and buying something else.

Sparks

Originally posted by Sleepy
Can you back up your claims of Ryanair's safety infractions?

Sure, if you can get a hold of accurate traffic and weather logs for Dublin Airport.

The fact that he sells his own shares when the share-price is high shows that he knows good financial management in his personal life.

Actuallly what I was looking at was that he judged his own personal finances as more important than the possible damage to Ryanair's image caused by the CEO selling millions of euros worth of shares.

And surely the fact that he's worth a fortune makes him less susceptible(spelling?) to the bribery demonstrated by so many of Fianna Fail's "finest"?

Nope.

Sparks

Originally posted by capistrano
Tell me of one serious Ryanair safery incident.

The most recent one was a Ryanair flight that ran off the end of a runway in Holland after landing, IIRC.

capistrano

Originally posted by Sparks
The most recent one was a Ryanair flight that ran off the end of a runway in Holland after landing, IIRC.

That's doens't sound too serious. A couple of years ago I was on an Aer Lingus plane whose tyre burst into flames on landing in Bristol; dodgy brakes or something.

All airlines have incidents, but I think Ryanair take safety very seriously. The last thing they want is an impression that just becasue they are "no frills" that somehow this implies less safety. To counter this they need to make sure that safety is a priority. It's just good business sense.

AngelofFire

Fianna fail-crooks act like a party of the people when they are in oppostion. but break promises and neglect housing, healthcare and education when they get into power.

Fine Gael-well meaning but two conservative to provide any alternative government. spend more time attacking current government policy than coming up with policies of their own.

Labour-possibly the best of them all. left wing but not too radical. put the needs of the people above big business. played a major part in abolishing college fees. if it were a bigger party it would provide good alternative government.

Progressive democrats-anti working class and pro big business. would prefer to hand out tax concessions to those earning excess of €200,000 per week than to provide affordable housing. voters are mainly those who play rugby and send their children to fee paying schools.

Green party-well meaning i would like to see them as part of a possible FG/LAB/GP Coaltion. good policys towards the environment.

SF- i sympathise with many of their policies but they get two bogged down in fundamentalist republican policies.

Socialist party-well meaning but unrealistic.