PC Specs - A little help!! (UPDATED)

Col_Loki

General Parts

The parts required for a complete PC are CPU (processor), Motherboard, Ram, Graphics card, Hard disk, CD drive (optional), Case, Power Supply along with keyboard, mouse, speakers, Screen.

CPU : Comes in two flavours, AMD and Intel. AMD are favoured generally by the people on a budget as they give the best bang per buck and intel for the more high spec machines. This has been turned around a little with the launch of the AMD64 which seems to be more than a match for its intel equivilent especially in games.

Motherboard : Loads of different brands, im a real Abit fan as they have been nothing but good to me so far. Couple of things to watch for, M-Atx means its for the smaller cases like shuttles while Atx means its regular. VGA means the board has on-board graphics, AGP means it has an AGP slot for a graphics card (standard), SATA is the newer interface for harddrives (nice neat cables)....
Socket A -> AMD XP Chips (budget range suits all Xp chips)
Socket 754 -> AMD64 (higher performing AMD chips)
Socket 478 -> Intel chips (the 865/875 chipsets support the newer "C" chips with 800mhz FSB)

Hard Disks: Generally the more GB's you have the better . Few main brands..
Western Digital -> Best performance, Most noise
Maxtor -> Medium performance, medium noise
Samsungs -> Medium performance, low noise
Seagate -> Lowest performance, Lowest noise (still pretty decent drives - newer ones perform better than the older ones)

8mb Cache > 2mb Cache
7200rpm > 5400rpm

With SATA hard disks it is possible to setup a Raid array. A raid array is generally setup for one of two reasons....and requires 2x SATA same size hard drives.
1) For added performance, but if one hard drive fails you loose all your info. (Raid 0)
2) For added security, If one hard disk fails the information is still perfect on the other. Ie one hard disk is an exact copy of the other (think its called a mirrored set / array)

Graphics Cards : Two main brands, ATI and Nvidia. ATI seem top be slightly better at the min due to better DX9 (newest standard) implementation.
ATI
9200SE < 9200 < 9600SE < 9600 < 9600pro < 9800se < 9600XT < 9700pro < 9800pro < 9800XT

Stay well away from the Fx5200 and 5600 series of Nvidia cards as there not good performers for the money. Minimum card would be a 9600 for anyone playing any games at all.
****** Dont be fooled by 256mb of ram on the cards, its a marketing ploy and doesent have performance gains over 128mb.... get 128mb cards with a faster GPU ******

Memory : The main standard at the min is DDR (double data rate). The common speeds are....
Pc2100 -> 266mhz (ie FSB at 133mhz, double data rate is 266mhz)
Pc2700 -> 333mhz (as above etc etc)
Pc3200 -> 400mhz
Pc3500 -> 434mhz
Pc3700 -> 466mhz
Pc4000 -> 500mhz

There are also memory timings. The better the Ram the lower the timings will be and the better it will perform. ie Cl2 is better than Cl2.5 . The lower the ram timings the better your memory will perform at the rated speed.

Dual-DDR : If your motherboard supports dual DDR, you can add two of the same size and type memory sticks to activate it. It basicly will give you greater performance as the FSB will use both ram modules at the same time (sorta ).
****Very big performance gains on intel systems, very small performance gains on AMD systems *****

Aditional info : Winbond BH5 chiped Ram is prob the best Ram you can buy. It will do high FSB at very tight timings and thus has the best performance. BH5 has now been replaced by BH6 (special edition). If you see ram with BH5 / BH6 then its great stuff. ie timings 2-2-2-5.
There is also Winbond CH5 which will do high FSB (mabye more than BH5) but has looser timings..... ie 2-3-3-7.
Both are great for overclocking and fantastic performers....... keep an eye out for it.

OCZ's new EB range is now considered a fantastic choice for overclocking with tight timings, Corsair also have a new 2-2-2-5 timings Pc3200 Memory that will also operate at 2.5-3-3-7 @ Pc4000 , its besed on Samsung chips and is a good choice for a newer overclocker (nice for AMD64 system).


Great Memory guide by Corsair, its interactive have a look....... http://www.corsairmicro.com/corsair/products/tech/memory_basics/153707/index.html (thanks Nukem)

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Budget PC (€700 ish)


Motherboard: Abit AN7 nForce2 ultra
CPU : AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Tray
CPU Cooler : SA Sharkoon CUS2 Lownoise
HardDisk : SATA 160GB Samsung SP1614C 8MB
DVD/CDRW : DVDR IDE NEC ND-2500A +-R/RW
Memory: DDR PC400 256MB Mushkin CL2 Blue
Graphics : 128MB Powercolor Radeon 9600 XT RTL


Total (www.jes-computer.de - €30 shipping roughly)
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Case : Sonata/MinTower 380W 4X5.25" 2X3.5" ATX Black -
Total (www.elara.ie - €10 shipping)
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(you still need keyb, mouse, screen)

1) This system is perfectly set up for games with a strong graphics card, decent processor & ram and good sound from the motherboard.
2) It's also setup very well for an overclock to Xp3200+ , its quite an easy overclock and all the parts will work perfectly for it.
3) Its going to be a quiet system as ive picked the items with that in mind also
4) Reasonable sized hard disk with a nice balance between performance and noise.
5) Excellent motherboard, great on-board sound, solid stable overclocker, SATA, Raid etc.
6) DVD Burner
7) Good quality case and powersupply

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Mid Range PC (€1100 ish)


Motherboard: MB ATX S478 Abit AI7
CPU : CPU Intel P4 S478 BOX 2800 MHZ
CPU Cooler : ZALMAN CNPS-7000-AlCu
HardDisk : 2x SATA 160GB Samsung SP1614C 8MB
DVD/CDRW : DVDR IDE LiteOn LDW-851S 8x speed
Graphics : 128MB Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro L

Total (www.jes-computer.de - €30 shipping roughly)
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Memory : 512Mb kit DDR PC-4000 Dual Channel - GeIL Ultra Platinum

Total (www.pc-memory-upgrade.co.uk - free delivery)

[edit] Geil uses 3.5ns chips which is excellent for overclocking and high FSB (most others use 4ns or 4.2ns). With the 2.8c chip, 250mhz FSB = 3.5ghz (the Ram should allow this with no problems, and more if need be).

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Case : Sonata/MinTower 380W 4X5.25" 2X3.5" ATX Black -

(www.elara.ie - €10 shipping)
___________________________________________________________________



(you still need keyb, mouse, screen)


1) This system is perfectly set up for games with one of the fastest GFX cards out at the min, fast processor & ram and good sound from the motherboard.
2) The "C" chips from intel overclock very well, it has a good heatsink, higher speed ram and should overclock very well.
3) Its going to be a quiet system as ive picked the items with that in mind also
4)Huge 320gb of hard disk space, 2 x Samsungs just waiting for a Raid 0 array (big performance gain).
5) Very good motherboard, great on-board sound, solid stable overclocker, SATA, Raid etc.
6) Very good DVD burner
7) Good quality case and powersupply

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High End PC (€1500 ish)

Motherboard: MB ATX S754 MSI K8N Neo Platinum
CPU : CPU AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Tray
CPU Cooler : ZALMAN CNPS-7000-AlCu
HardDisk : 2 x SATA 160GB Samsung SP1614C 8MB
DVD/CDRW : DVDR IDE LiteOn LDW-851S 8x speed
Graphics : 256MB Sapphire Radeon X800 Pro Full-RTL
Memory : DDR PC400 512MB Mushkin BH6
Sound Card : Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS Retail
Case : Thermaltake XaserIII Lanfire VM1000A-
Power Supply : Thermaltake Butterfly 480W BLK
Total (www.jes-computer.de - €30 shipping roughly)
___________________________________________________________________



(you still need keyb, mouse, screen)


1) This system is perfectly set up for games with one of the fastest GFX cards out at the min, the almost top gaming processor & best ram you can buy and also fantastic sound from the Creative audigy.
2) It doesent overclock aswell as the Intels but there is room for some. Despite the memory being Pc3200 it should well exceed this even with the extremely tight timings.
3) Its going to be a quiet system as ive picked the items with that in mind also
4) Huge 320gb of hard disk space, 2 x Samsungs just waiting for a Raid 0 array (big performance gain).
5) Very good motherboard, SATA, Raid etc.
6) DVD Burner, very good make.
7) Very good quality case and excellent powersupply

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Col_Loki

Power Supply's Info

Ok so i thought id add info on power supplies as there can be alot of confusion about them.

Generally it is best to take the PSU's power rating with a grain of salt, especially when your dealing with cheaper no-name ones or q-tecs. I have seen loads of people fall into the trap of buying a q-tec 400w and running into power troubles. A decent 400w PSU should power almost anything but the q-tec and no-namers tend to vastly exagerate the power output.
Ie a Q-Tec is said to average about 70% (give or take) of its rated power....... so a 450w Q-Tec would produce 315w. At the other end of the scale is Fortron, a 350w Fortron has been known to produce 420w+ of power.

Basic rule, brand is everything when it comes to PSU's, ignore rating unless its a known good brand.

The best makes in power supplies are as follows........


Antec
Fortron
be-quiet
enermax
thermaltake (new 480w is good)
Zalman
Sparkle (re-branded fortron)
PCP & P
Tagan




*****General Rule, Stay away from Q-Tec's, Codegan's, No-Name PSU's !!*****

All of these power supplies will have around the same output in real life as they are rated for with little exceptions. Some of them especially fortrons under rate the actual power out put by vast ammounts (no idea why). In recent reviews the 300w versions have been shown to output 380w+ while the 350w version is pushing out over 420w.

Generally Antec are considered the best, there huge and the quality is excellent. The only problem is they tend to be expensive. Fortrons are a more budget based PSU but the quality is still very good. You can pick up a 300w fortron for under €40 and it should power very high spec rigs (im using it in my rig at the min).

Quality is not just how much power output the PSU will give, its also how good each voltage rail is (ie the power comming out of the connectors). A good PSU will have rails / outputs very close to that which it is rated for..... ie its 12v rail would be 11.9v , 5v - 4.95v etc etc, the closer the better.
Also when the PSU goes from idle to full load there shouldnt be that much variation in the rails, cheaper PSU's actually vary alot and can struggle to keep the output voltages to an acceptable level sometimes causing re-boots, ram erors etc.
I use Prime95 to see how well the PSU's deal with full load. Antec rails tend to be fantastic along with the others ive listed.

Silence - How noisey are they!!

In general the manufacturers will claim that the power supplies are much quieter than they actually are. Alot of them come with variable fans and adjust the speed according to the stress on the PSU..... thus can be silent while browsing the web and noisey when playing a game (where its less noticable). General problem is people with higher power needs as the fans will be running faster when idle.

There is a great and safe mod you can do to the fortron 120mm's so that they run the fan at 5v which is extremely quiet and still cools the PSU decently...... i will add much more info on this later on.

The quietest are Zalmans, be-quiets, some Antec's (especially the 380w single fan version - fitted to the sonata).


Some Links to reviews..........

Toms Hardware (i always take toms hardware reviews loosely, look at the facts and ignore blatently biased views)
*****More to be added when i find the good ones again*********

Col_Loki

PS, feel free to post any other ideas or areas you would like me to post on....... and also if ive made a mistake (havent read it over yet as im not finished).

I will be deleting any comments when the thread is finished so its no problem to post a reply

[edit] This whole thread is basicly from memory so im sure i might have made a little mistake or mis-typed something......... give me a shout if you spot something !! Should generally be very accurate.

Col_Loki

Suppliers Listing (where to buy)

There is a sticky about this on the tech forum but its huge so im just going to make a list of the essential ones

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www.jes-computer.de (cheapest ive found, great stuff and cheap delivery - general hardware)
www.komplett.ie (good prices, cheap delivery - general hardware)
www.hitide.ie (overclocking & silence & flashy bits - i like em)
www.elara.ie (nice antec cases, general hardware, more expensive than jes & komplett in general)
www.pc-memory-upgrade.co.uk (free delivery, based in kildare, good service and prices)
www.computerbits.ie (best customer service ive ever had)
www.pc-look.com (overclocking, fortron & zalman PSU's, silence parts also)
www.excaliberpc.com (american company - wierd delivery rules but cheap)
www.xcase.co.uk (biggest range of cases ive seen)
www.creative.ie (free delivery)
www.computeruniverse.net (huge range - german supplier)
www.overclockers.co.uk (great products, good company)
www.overclock.co.uk (good company also)
www.tekheads.co.uk (overclocking stuff & gen hardware)

WaterCooling Suppliers

[Kits]
www.hitide.ie
www.watercooling.de
www.overclockers.com
www.pc-look.com

[Build your own]
www.dtekcustoms.com/ (whitewater CPU cooler - 2nd best on the market!!)
www.dangerden.com
http://becooling.safeshopper.com/

Dtek & Dangerden prob two of the best for custom systems.

For info on watercooling .......... http://www.ocforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=127
(will possibly do another sticky on it at a later date)


WaterCooling performance tables........... http://overclockers.com/articles373/


Well there the main ones id be looking at, could name more but all these above should sort you out with whatever you need !!

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Col_Loki

CPU Spreadsheet

Ok so im going to do my best to list the specs of the CPU's (the AMD one is going to be better as im an AMD fan)......

AMD
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There are a few types of AMD CPU's , the Athlon XP, Durons, Opertrons, AMD64's, FX's.

Athlon XP -> Is the most popular type of AMD at the min. Its ratings are based on the performance comparason between the chip and how a 1ghz Older (Tbird) chip performed. Thats AMD's official story but really its to compare to the intels as AMD cant hit as high a speed........thus they use ratings to fool us :rolleyes: (even though the performance is actually very simular between rating and intel actual speed). The XP range is basicly falling back to being the budget range as the new performance range is the AMD64's & Fx chips.
There are a couple of different cores in the XP range.....

Palimino (very hot, bad overclocker, older core)
TBred A (not a good overclocker, 256kb L2 cache)
TBred B (decent overclocker, 256kb L2 cache)
Morgan (Duron core with 64kb L2 cache)
Barton (newer core, double the L2 cache at 512kb)
Thorton (newer core , a barton with half the cache disabled , 256kb L2 cache)
AppleBred (a Tbred with half its cache disabled, 64kb L2 cache - durons)

Mobile Chips : With nearly all the AMD desktop chips being locked after week 39 of last year people are turning to the XP-M. Its a mobile chip used in laptops which runs perfectly in desktops but only uses 1.45v to be stable at stock voltage. This is great news for people who want a silent PC (less cooling required) or people who want to overclock as they have alot of voltage to play with........ The new overclocker - XP-M chip.

Settings for the XP/Duron chips

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Athlon Applebred - Duron
All of the following have 64kb L2 Cache

Rating: Ghz: Bus: Multiplier:
<N/A> 1.40 266(133x2) 10.5
<N/A> 1.60 266(133x2) 12.0
<N/A> 1.80 266(133x2) 13.5

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Athlon XP Thoroughbred:
All of the following have 256K Cache

Rating: Ghz: Bus: Multiplier:
1700+ 1.47 266(133x2) 11
1800+ 1.53 266(133x2) 11.5
2000+ 1.67 266(133x2) 12.5
2100+ 1.73 266(133x2) 13
2200+ 1.80 266(133x2) 13.5
2400+ 2.00 266(133x2) 15
2600+ 2.08 333(166x2) 12.5
2700+ 2.17 333(166x2) 13

___________________________________________________________________
Athlon XP-M Mobile TBreds
All of the following have 256K L2 Cache

Rating: Ghz: Bus: Multiplier:
2200+ 1.80 266(133x2) 13.5
2400+ 2.00 266(133x2) 15

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Athlon XP Bartons
All of the following have 512K L2 Cache

Rating: Ghz: Bus: Multiplier:
2500+ 1.83 333(166x2) 11
2600+ 1.92 333(166x2) 11.5
2800+ 2.08 333(166x2) 12.5
3000+ 2.17 333(166x2) 13
3000+ 2.10 400(200x2) 10.5
3200+ 2.20 400(200x2) 11

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Athlon XP-M Mobile Bartons
All of the following have 512K L2 Cache
Voltage: 1.45

Rating: Ghz: Bus: Multiplier:
2400+ 1.80 266(133x2) 13.5
2500+ 1.87 266(133x2) 14
2600+ 2.00 266(133x2) 15

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Settings for the AMD64 / FX chips

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Athlon64
FSB: Intregrated into Chip, 1600Mhz Bus

Rating: Ghz: Bus: Multiplier:
2800+ 1.8 200 9 (512kb L2 Cache)
3000+ 2.0 200 10 (512kb L2 Cache)
3200+ 2.0 200 10 (1mb L2 Cache)
3200+ 2.2 200 11 (512kb L2 Cache)
3400+ 2.2 200 11 (1mb L2 Cache)

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Athlon 64 FX
BUS: Intregrated into Chip: 2.2 GHz

Rating: Ghz: Bus: Multiplier:
FX51 2.2 200 11
FX53 2.4 200 12

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Col_Loki

Right i might be changing the sticky a little because its very hard to keep updating prices as jes-computer do it daily. Will change it into different catagories ie Low/Med/High end in different sections. Will see what ye think and go from there.

CPU

Theres too many to list and pick from.

P4's are great for encoding, decent for games.
AMD64's are great gamers, ok at encoding.
XP range is a general purpose budget range (look for Xp2500+ - great chip).

Motherboard

AMD64

At this point in time the Nforce3 250 motherboards are out, it is recomended to get one of these as it has an AGP/PCI lock - which is badly needed for overclocking.

The MSI K8N Neo has gotten great reviews and is one of the top boards.
Also the Epox EP-8KDA3+ has gotten on very well in the reviews.

A more mid range option the Epox 8KDA3J , slightly cut down version of the 8KDA3+. Not a bad board at all.

Budget cheap and cheerfull Chaintech VNF3-250

Intel P4

Highend has got to be the Abit IC7-Max3 one of the best boards you can get...... built for overclocking.
[DFI Lanparty 875 is also one to look out for, fancy and great board]

Mid/Budget , sticking with Abit the Abit AI7 , solid board with the usual good overclocking options Abit provide.

AMD XP

High end the Abit NF7-S has always been a great choice. The newer version being the AN7 is also an option, both good choices for the XP. Abit AN7 , Abit NF7-S

Mid/Budget Range - Asus A7N8X-X


RAM (Memory)

Highend Ram would fall into a couple of areas. There are tight timings Ram , there is high bandwidth Ram (generally looser timings), and theres the mix.

Generally people with intel systems go for higher bandwidth. This requires Pc3700/4000/4200 Memory. With the 2.4C, 2.6C, 2.8C it is a very good idea to get Pc4000 Memory . With the 3.0C , 3.2C, 3.4C its better to stick with Pc3500/Pc3700 memory as you wont take advantage of the extra FSB speed needed to run Pc4000 (unless you have super cooling).
Generally the faster the chip the less the actual MHZ overclock will be, and this the lower the FSB value - So the faster the chip the slower the recomended memory BUT with tighter timings (thats the big thing).

With the AMD64 the general choice is low tight timings. Tight timings tend to work well on the AMD64's and also for games. Have a look for Pc3500 or very good Pc3200 (like Mushkin level2 , OCZ LE - which have winbond BH6 chips). Mabye Pc3700 if your feeling adventerous. The main issue is higher speed memory has looser timings and GENERALLY wont run with tight timings, so you could be stuck with 215mhz FSB with 2.5-4-4-7 timings which isint good (extreme case but u get what im saying).

Thing to note about AMD64
The lower multipliers are unlocked. What does this mean? It means you can Raise up the FSB and lower the multiplier to get the same speed. ie (silly example) you can have 300mhz FSB x 5 = 1.5ghz OR 200mhz x 7.5 = 1.5ghz CPU speed.
This means you can run almost any FSB you want up to the boards limit (generally over 300mhz :eek: ). NOTE if you dont have an AGP/PCI lock then your screwed if you try for high FSB as it overclocks your hard drive also...... thats why you get a Nforce3 250 chipset board.
From this point of view you could also then use Pc4000/4200/4400 etc etc and run it without problems........ ive posted alot on this topic on this forum along with links etc search for "timings" and you will find it. - the choice is yours, its hard to call.

AMD XP

With the XP timings mean everything. Pc3200 / Pc3500 (mabye 3700). With the multiplier being locked you overclock with FSB. The Boards arent known for high ones and 250mhz is a real achievement without mods . If your getting a Xp2500+ and goal is 2.2ghz then get Pc3200 memory with decent timings, if its more then get Pc3500. If its a mobile the chip is unlocked so its your call on chancing high FSB or Not.......... ive tried and got to 244mhz but the performance wasent alot more than 215mhz @ 2-3-3-7.

Note on OCZ EB
This memory is working out very well for AMD64 and P4 systems alike. Its generally a good option for low timings and pretty decent FSB. Its defeintly worth looking out for and also takes pretty well to voltage increases. Quality Ram

Graphics Cards

High End definetly think about the X800 or Mabye 6800 from Nvidia. Think the X800 is a slightly better option at the min. Some of the sapphire pro versions have been known to mod to XT's (have a look / search on computer forum for details).
Sapphire X800pro

High/Med End . Its hard to spec the 9800pro in the Med end so this is more High/Med. Its a pretty decent price at the min and is a quality card...... Sapphire 9800pro
[Also a good option for a cheaper price is the 5900XT , not as good as the 9800pro but still a very decent performer]

Med End - The 9600XT is too close to the 5900XT price therefore i wouldnt consider it. The 9600pro is an option but not in stock. Really the best option is to pick up a good second hard 9700/9700pro/9800/9800pro ......... there so much better than the 9600's.

Low End - HIS 9200SE , bog standard GFX card, fine for movies/ divx / light gaming...... will blow up if you try to play HL2 !!

Hard Disks

Well i know i have a rough and pretty crude guide posted up there. Its very hard to pick the best HD for someone, ill just tell you what id prob get.

High End - Raptors , some of the best performing workstation drives you can get. 10k RPM and fantastic drives. Its a popular choice to get 2 and Raid0 them for an absolute flyer of a machine, and get a nice 200gb to store your films etc.

Med End - 2 x 160gb Raid0 , take your pick . Id go for Samsungs for a nice quiet machine with decent performance.

Low End - 120gb / 160gb IDE , if you have SATA then get it in SATA. Hitachi's are getting great reviews, Samsungs are nice and quiet, Seagates also nice and quiet, WD's have been on top for ages, maxtors - some people swear by them.

Col_Loki

Power Supplys

High End - Antec 480w TrueBlue , huge power, pretty low noise, nice blue lights, rock solid rails, will power almost anything.

Med End - Be-Quiet Range , all the reviews ive read have been great, there so quiet, good rails, good power and even come with blue lights should that interest you!!

Low End -
http://www.pc-look.com/boutik/Cat_Power_Supply_Power_Supply_FORTRON_PSU's__58_70_193.html - Fortrons Range , these PSUs produce more power than there rated for and thus you get great value. The 300w is able for most XP systems without any hassle - trush me (running Xp2500+@2400mhz) . The 350w is a good choice and a very solid PSU (produces on average 400w+). Ohh and they also come with blue lights.


Other Good Options
The Tagan 480w is a very decent quiet PSU
Also the fancy TT Butterfly 480w .


DVD Drives

Right now with the price of the DVD burners you'd be crazy not to get one in your new system. Some good ones being the NEC ND2500 , LiteOn LDW-851S , And the LG .

Word has it the NEC2500 can be flashed so it will write dual layer DVD's, for this reason its a good option. The LG is very fast for general operation , seek time , read time etc but im not sure about dual layer ability.
I personally went for the LiteOn mainly as its a good allrounder and i just wanted one!!

I wouldnt go near Benq OR MSI, especially when there isint much price difference.


Cooling

Ok so theres the obvious AIR Cooling, more specialised Water Cooling, and even more speciallised Phase cooling. I wont be going into this in much detail, there have been quite a few threads about watercooling so i will be doing another seperate sticky on the subject at a later time (and also when i have alot more information).

Generally with Air cooling the best solutions would have to be the Thermalrights . They are lovely big copper heatsinks for which you pick your own fan for the top. They have better temps than low end water cooling and are great for overclocking.

Silence/Performance - For this the Zalman is a definetly one of the best. It comes in two types the ALCU and CU, the difference being one is totally copper and the other is Alu & Copper. The temp difference is small so save a few quid and stick with the ALCU. The Zalman has 2 settings, silent and normal. At the silent setting its very very hard to hear and is silent from a small distance away and it will cool your CPU at this setting supprisingly well. On normal there performance increases and gets closer to the Thermalrights and its still pretty quiet.

Budget - Have a look at the Artic coolers there a decent cheap option.

Coolers............ http://www.jes-computer.de/catalog/default.php?cPath=169_98&page=1&sort=2a


Ok thats it for the min, prob overlapped on a few things - eh ill clear it up later!! Still have a few things to add.......... Had to post this in two parts as theres a 10000 char limit or something!!

Col_Loki

Your input on the thread is always usefull. I intend to do something on small form factor aswell but im pretty busy and also have other topics to cover. Any mistakes etc feel free to post.........

fazer600

all you need is wwwkomplett.ie
its all there at amazingly cheap prices in kits that can only blow your mind


[link removed, no advertising]

Woden

komplett's not all you need really though when they don't stock names like ocz, mushkin, antec, liteon and thermalright and thats just off the top of my head

add onto the fact that there is current gripes with the DHL delivery prices and you'll find that you'd prefare to give you money to other shops

Col_Loki

Yea exactly. Add the fact that there are places like www.jes-computer.de that are cheaper and komplett dont look as good as you think.

Theres quite a few areas komplett fall down on, especially Power Supply's.... q-tec are pretty bad and people get easily fooled. Komplett are a good company but not the be all and end all as you seem to imply.

Ardent

For the mid-range PC mentioned above, does the motherboard (MB ATX S478 Abit AI7) come with onboard graphics? If not, will a 9800 pro also cater for for non-3d graphics?

Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, not too saavy with motherboards and graphics cards...

Col_Loki

For the mid-range PC mentioned above, does the motherboard (MB ATX S478 Abit AI7) come with onboard graphics? If not, will a 9800 pro also cater for for non-3d graphics?

The graphics cards deal with everything that is displayed. Not only 3d . It works and covers everything that needs to be displayed.

The graphics card listed is for high end gaming, if your not much into it then you could pop in a 9200 and it will be perfect for DVD's, Divx, movies, most games (even new ones, just detail lower settings and lower quality).

Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, not too saavy with motherboards and graphics cards...

Feel free to ask, it was a question i thought about aswell when first building.

hostyle

Originally posted by Col_Loki


DVD Drives

Right now with the price of the DVD burners you'd be crazy not to get one in your new system.

Its good that some people can see through my cheap boards facade. I AM crazy, and I do not have a DVD burner.

Delete at will, o might mods. It seemed funny at the time.

Seifer

Very useful thread just have a few questions:

Which do you think is a better motherboard the MT ATX S754 MSI Ms-7030 K8N Neo Platinum or the MT ATX S754 Chaintech Znf3-250 Zenith? What are you getting for the price difference?

1Gb kit DDR PC-3200 Level1 Dual Channel - Mushkin (2x 512Mb DDR RAM PC3200 Dual Channel Level One) 400Mhz, 184 pins, 64 bit, CL2, 2-3-2 Rating
Mushkin Black PCB, hand tested, w/ alu heatspreaders
Would that be considered high end ram for an amd 64?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Headshot

can someone help how do i found out every spec in my pc and once that known find out how to improve it

Col_Loki

TBH i cant see much of a difference between those boards. One has 4 SATA ports while the other only has 2 (also mite be a slightly different raid controller).......

Would that be considered high end ram for an amd 64?

Its decent Ram, and pretty good performance wise . Lower Ram timings is generally a better option with the AMD64 over say higher speed stuff........... and thus the Mushkin L1 is a good choice.

can someone help how do i found out every spec in my pc and once that known find out how to improve it

Open it up have a look arround (unplug first). If your running 2k or XP go to Control Pannel -> System and it should tell your CPU and Ram. If its an older system then mabye extra Ram.........

whosurpaddy

col_loki fair play to ya for putting the time into getting this together. took a fair amount of time i bet.

small mistake in the maths of the high spec machine, you only budgetted for one of the HDDs

Col_Loki

Well spotted thanks. Im actually removing the prices as they change way too much on jes. Have had very little time of late so have updated very little.......

daveg

Excellent Thread Col Loki. Very informative.

Jammer

Excellent Thread Col_loki

but...

i had the following in my cart on jes;

MB ATX S754 MSI MS-7030 K8N Neo Platinum
17335 CPU AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 512kB Tray
17398 Kühler Multisockel ZALMAN CNPS-7000B-Cu
17314 DVDR IDE LiteOn LDW-812S 8x Retail
13770 HDD SATA 120GB Seagate ST3120026AS
DDR PC400 1024MB TwinMOS Twister Dualkit

And delivery was working out at 40euro with GLS. May want to update the above. Thats to an address in Dublin.

Col_Loki

Cheers guys.

Jes must have just changed there prices, im in kildare and shipping was ~€20 for all my orders and i bought more than that. Also a week or two ago a mate got a whole system case n all for €20 ish......... u sure you dont have 100 hard drives or something ?

PS i live in kildare.

Just checked jes, 8.2kg - €34 (including a big case) - €27 without case. Must have increased prices.

16803 CPU AMD Athlon XP-Mobile 2400+ 45W Tray
86.99 EUR
16124 HDD USB 80GB Teac HD-35PUK-80 Kit
98.98 EUR
17357 256MB HIS Excalibur Radeon 9550 DVI RTL
91.99 EUR
17000 DVD IDE LG GDR-8163B 16x52x black bulk
22.99 EUR
11037 GEH Big Chieftec Dragon CS901 Silber
79.90 EUR


Sub-Total: 380.85 EUR

Jammer

No, that was with 1 x everything except HDD, 2 x them

Col_Loki

Cheers for the update, i will have a look into it a little more and change the prices

PS i was joking about the 100 hard drives.......

TheDriver

Everyone keeps talking about the sonata case but what about the Antec 1650 with 350W power for 75? will this case be a good bet?

Col_Loki

Depends on what system your going to use it for TBH. The Sonata comes with a TruePower Antec, while the other one has the SmartPower (TruePower is a better Power supply). Also the Sonata comes with 120mm fans, easy access HD rails, super quiet PSU, and is generally a lovely case...... very impressive.

Jammer

Col_Loki wrote:

Depends on what system your going to use it for TBH. The Sonata comes with a TruePower Antec, while the other one has the SmartPower (TruePower is a better Power supply). Also the Sonata comes with 120mm fans, easy access HD rails, super quiet PSU, and is generally a lovely case...... very impressive.

i'll echo that

TheDriver

I want it to power a P4 prescott, a 128Mb 9200SE, 1HDD (160Gb) and 2 optical drives. I want to avoid paying another 60 odd euro for a sonata to be honest if this antec will do, appreciating that I have not gone for a qtec or codegan on everyones advice in here.

MartMax

Hi

I've got up and running the following :

Intel P4 3.2Ghz Prescott
MSI 865PE Neo2-PFISR
Saphire Radeon 9800Pro
Corsair 512MB TwinX PC3200 Module
Samsung 160GB SP1614C
Plextor PX712A DVD Writer

The CPU runs with its stocked cooler and heatsink. The whole system is housed in Antec SLK2650-BQE, which is in compliance with Intel's Thermally Advantage Chassis design - not really sure if it does the work!

Cheap casing with SmartPower 350W. Bought it from Microaid for less than €90. Installed an extra fan for intake air in the front; it's an Antec 80mm and noisy - must find a quiter solution soon!

Speedfan reports my CPU is running at 47'C and case temperature is 32'C. While MSI utility called Core Center displays my CPU is going at 50'C with case air is 34'C hot. These temperatures are taken while my system running at idle. I do really hope if this is normal for Prescott machines!

Havent tested yet how much hotter could it be and for sure I won't be overclocking my system ie. I am not that adventurous. Comments are welcome.

p/s : moderators, move around this post if you feel it's not appropriate.

fazer600

while all you people speculate about this mans problems and down the best sites, believe me when I tell you with experience! Cheap components are bought with opportunities. Always kep a watchful eye on market prices and deals that sites offer. You are very narrow minded if you look at a provider and take it at face value. Komplett offer high quality at extremely affordable and if prices and deals are watched then some amazing deals can be obtained. same for jes-computer too! Perseverence and a watchful eye will get you that deal, negativity will get you a below average deal and a bleak output on a competitive market that can be milked like a highland cow!

peace out brovaz!

Winning Hand

snoopdog wrote:

can someone help how do i found out every spec in my pc and once that known find out how to improve it

Found these over the last few days that are pretty thorough with information
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

Also 3dmark2005 has a section where it gives pretty detailed information about your system specs if you feel like a 280meg download