Her Maryness an Anti-Semite???

Hairy Homer

This from today's Irish Times.
And if you really want to read the petition in question, you can do so.

To be fair, it doesn't specifically label her an antisemite but by asking for her removal as a speaker because she has articulated views that may be contrary to those of some of the students present, it doesn't paint a picture of Emory University as a haven for freedom of expression.


Robinson 'very hurt' by anti-Semitism allegations
Deaglán de Bréadún, Foreign Affairs Correspondent



The former president, Mrs Mary Robinson, said last night she was "very hurt and dismayed" by allegations of anti-Semitism made against her on a college campus in the US.

Over 1,000 students and some academic staff at Emory University in Atlanta have signed an on-line petition accusing the former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights of being anti-Semitic and fostering hostility towards Israel.

The petitioners called on the university to remove her as commencement speaker at a graduation ceremony on May 10th.

Mrs Robinson flew to Atlanta last week to explain her views to a group of two dozen staff and students at the university.

Mrs Robinson has been criticised for her role in the 2001 World Conference on Racism held in South Africa. The New York-based Irish Voice newspaper reported that pro-Israel groups protested recently when Columbia University appointed her to a part-time position.

Prof Kenneth Stein, the director of the Middle East institute at Emory, also questioned what he said was Mrs Robinson's belief that "the root cause of the Arab-Israeli conflict is the occupation". He told a college paper: "I'm troubled by the apparent absence of due diligence on the part of decision-makers who invited her to speak."

Speaking to The Irish Times from her office at the Ethical Globalisation Initiative in New York, where she is executive director, Mrs Robinson said: "I am very hurt and dismayed." She continued: "It is distressing that allegations are being made that are absolutely unfounded."

She intended to keep her speaking engagement on May 10th, she said. "The university are strongly siding with me. It's a wonderful university for Irish literature," she added.

Describing her meeting at Emory, she said: "Some were convinced and some would not have been if I stayed a month. The unfortunate problem was a very difficult conference at Durban. Everyone who was at Durban knows I spoke out against anti-Semitism."

Emory University said in a statement that it was "unaware" of the Durban controversy when it issued the invitation but added that "Mrs Robinson's own speeches, interviews, and actions repeatedly and explicitly condemn anti-Semitism, terrorist acts, and religious intolerance".

shotamoose

God forbid that students should have their views challenged before heading out into what passes for the 'real world' in America.

sleepwalker

everyday these accusations of anti-semitism grow more and more outrageous and insulting

Mighty_Mouse

madness.is every person who sees something wrong with the actions of the Israel state in murdering Palestines an anti-semite?

Are Jewish peopl so blind that they cant see the fact that Mary Robinson has expressed some reservations about Israel not an indication that the country is in the wrong in many circumstances.

daveirl

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leeroybrown

The people who give a petitiononline.com petition credibilty are worse. Look at the one's that have been posted up here over the years. They aren't exactly going to change things are they?

PetitionOnline seems to give all those indignant village idiots a soap box to peddle their opinions from. It always seems to be used to attack people when there is a far more sensible solution.

Sand

Its a non-issue tbh - Robinson isnt an anti semite just cos she disagrees with the Israeli position.

Mind you, its amusing to see anti-semite become a stick that you can beat your opponents with when you cant string a decent argument together. Looks like commie, fascist, bigot and racist are welcoming a new member to the student debating team.

Captain Trips

Its a non-issue tbh - Robinson isnt an anti semite just cos she disagrees with the Israeli position.

I disagree, I think it very much *is* an issue. The fact that the 1997-2002 High Commissioner for Human Rights gets called an anti-Semite because she is publicly acting her responsibility and beliefs is a reason in itself that this state of affairs is an issue.

Al-Queda offer a truce to Europe - refused because EU think that maybe having a "shoulder to shoulder" stance with US will be better long-term, and next day, Bush backs Israel thus effectively lining up sociological reinforcements to prolong this war.

Branding sticks, like it or not. Although we would all say that Robinson is not anti-Semite (and so what if she is? Apparently anti-Semite means "Against Israeli-Governent Policy" these days), the fact that it appears means it's a question or doubt in people's minds, not tomorrow, but another one in a year.

It's Mel Gibson on Jay Leno defending a movie based on the bible and being branded anti-Semite - and that will stick with him for any other movie he makes. Robinson will have that doubt that question in the back of people's minds now.

I found it ironic that Sharon was at the top of the page of the Irish Times yesterday giving what was at first glance the "Heil Hitler" salute, and down the bottom was the Human Rights High COmmisioner being branded an Anti-Semite. The doublespeak continues......same bat channel, same bat time.

Agent Orange

If you criticize Israel, then you are by definition an anti-semite.

I'm ashamed to have someone like her representing Ireland abroad.

Seaneh

Orange is half-right.
A lot of european and american Jews would consider anyone who "opposes" Isreal as anti semitic, it might be harsh, but to them Isreal = Jewish.
I myself don't see her as Anti-Semetic, but I do think she is more than mildly one sided on the issue of the ocupation, I believe that she romantically likens that ocupation with what happened in our past, as I believe a lot of Irish people do, which is ludacris.

But yeah, I'm rambling here, She is far from anti-semitic, but at the same time she is "agitating" for a lot of Jews.

rom1

Agent Orange, I see that you refer to a definition... I would like to know which dictionnary you are using.

Cambridge Advance Learners Dictionnary:
anti-Semitism: the strong dislike or cruel and unfair treatment of Jewish people.

I don't think Mary has said anything against the jews. She's accusing a state.

If I criticize Ireland for allowing the US army planes to land in Shannon, am I anti-Irish? I am not.

alleepally

"If you criticize Israel, then you are by definition an anti-semite.

I'm ashamed to have someone like her representing Ireland abroad."

How is she representing Ireland exactly? Just because she is Irish. Does that mean every Irish person with a public persona and opinions of their own represent Ireland? Were you ashamed of her when she represented Ireland in an official capacity as President. If you did, then you were in a small minority and I believe you would be in a small minority today as well. I think she is a woman of great morals and intelligence.

All previous posters are correct when they say accusations of anti-semitism are thrown about willy nilly to anyone who dares speak honestly or question Israels strategy. State sponsored terrorism is OK???? I don't think so and we should be more aware of this than most nations on earth considering the murky past of British state sponsored murder in the North and South of this island during the troubles.

Seaneh

Originally posted by alleepally


All previous posters are correct when they say accusations of anti-semitism are thrown about willy nilly to anyone who dares speak honestly or question Israels strategy. State sponsored terrorism is OK???? I don't think so and we should be more aware of this than most nations on earth considering the murky past of British state sponsored murder in the North and South of this island during the troubles.

Now I'm sorry, but I wouldn't compare Hamas to IRA (maybe to the provisional IRA but not the pre 1945 IRA, not by a long shot). And i wouldn't compare Isreal to the old british empire.

But seriously, I to think Irish people tend to have romantic views of the palestinian situation, and this tends to make them a little more than slightly biased.
There is two sides to the conflict, to say "Isreal bad...blah blah..." and have a view that they randomly just attack civilians for no reason is fairly ignorent IMHO.
The Gaza strip and West Bank were taken during a war, one which they were attacked, not the attackers, if it happened in europe we would (have have constantly in the past) have had no problem with the transgressed party creating a buffer between thenselves and the hostile eliment.
While there is problems, they are agravited by both sides, and mostly from one side, which is not Isreal.

Victor

Originally posted by Seaneh
The Gaza strip and West Bank were taken during a war,

But not taken from the aggressors, whatever way you construe it.

Originally posted by Seaneh
one which they were attacked, not the attackers, if it happened in europe we would (have have constantly in the past) have had no problem with the transgressed party creating a buffer between thenselves and the hostile eliment.

But with a third party's land?

Originally posted by Seaneh
While there is problems, they are agravited by both sides, and mostly from one side, which is not Isreal.

Since when did you think this was a 2-sided argument?

jongore

Originally posted by Agent Orange
If you criticize Israel, then you are by definition an anti-semite.

I'm ashamed to have someone like her representing Ireland abroad.

Sorry that's BS, if I critisise Ireland or Spain am I anti-Catholic? If I critisise Turkey or Iran am I anti-muslem?

Israels political actions are what the debate is about, the fact that the majorty of the people are Jewish is irelevent.

Sand

I disagree, I think it very much *is* an issue. The fact that the 1997-2002 High Commissioner for Human Rights gets called an anti-Semite because she is publicly acting her responsibility and beliefs is a reason in itself that this state of affairs is an issue.

"Branding" is fairly common - its an attempt to dehumanise and discredit a viewpoint by making negative associations. Its only a concern if the person doing the name calling has enough respect to make it stick - in this case i dont think Mary has much to worry about. I mean, theyre students/academics.

Agent Orange, I see that you refer to a definition... I would like to know which dictionnary you are using.

It probably includes "sarcasm" and "irony" which your edition may be missing.

I believe that she romantically likens that ocupation with what happened in our past, as I believe a lot of Irish people do, which is ludacris.

Does she? I agree though that Irish people tend to trace connections between the plight of the palestinians and the situation in NI. Everyone sees the world from their own point of view afterall.

Sorry that's BS, if I critisise Ireland or Spain am I anti-Catholic? If I critisise Turkey or Iran am I anti-muslem?

Try adopting a view that differs from the SWP playbook and see how far you get.

AngelofFire

its all just politically correct nonsense taken outragously out of context. I have a jewish friend whos opposed to Arial Sharon and the occupation of palestine, does that make him anti semnitic?

There are a number of israeli jews who are also apposed to Sharon and the occupation of palestine. its hardly anti-semntism.

daveirl

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usualsuspect

Is it time to forgive them for killing jesus yet?

Captain Trips

Wait until alijah is completed

Zombrex

Originally posted by usualsuspect
Is it time to forgive them for killing jesus yet?

wasn't killing jesus a good thing??

pretty hard to "die for our sins to save us all" if Jesus isn't actually dead

Zombrex

Originally posted by AngelofFire
its all just politically correct nonsense taken outragously out of context. I have a jewish friend whos opposed to Arial Sharon and the occupation of palestine, does that make him anti semnitic?

There are a number of israeli jews who are also apposed to Sharon and the occupation of palestine. its hardly anti-semntism.

There are quite a large amount of Jews actually inside Israeil who oppose Sharon. They are neither anti-semetic or even anti-Israeil, just anti-Sharon and his brutal tactics for "dealing with" terrorist.

sceptre

Originally posted by Wicknight
wasn't killing jesus a good thing??

pretty hard to "die for our sins to save us all" if Jesus isn't actually dead

I've run with this line of thinking before and I think it's fair.

If you believe that Jesus was the son of God and came to Earth to save believers by sacrificing himself, then the Jewish people were fulfilling the will of God.

If you believe none of the above, then what happened was no more sinful than the death of any other pretender. It may or may not have been a miscarriage of justice but it wasn't the only one and the only lengthy accounts we have of the proceedings were written from a biased point of view many years after the fact.

In any case, all the Jews in the world weren't sitting outside Pilate's bedroom campaigning for the death of Jesus or the freedom of Barabbas. We don't blame all Germans for the death of 6 million Jews so why should anyone blame all Jews for the death of one Jew, regardless of the importance you place upon that one Jew?

Besides, it's beliefs that the Jewish people that were responsible for the death of Jesus and that they should be condemned for all time for it that make it harder for the rational among us to criticise the state of Israel when such criticism is justified without being slotted in the same box as the New Aryans and being accused of being anti-Semitic. It's even happened to the former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

sceptre, good point. What I've been wondering is, wasn't it the Romans that actually did the deed? Jesus was crucified and killed by Romans. I don't see everyone blaming the Italians for this?

sceptre

Kind of yes but kind of no. If you believe the Biblical account of events, Pilate went through the motions, said he couldn't convict him, then washed his hands (literally) of the thing and told the high priests to do whatever they wanted with him. They decided to put him to death. He was still crucified under the authority of the Roman Empire though and they were the ones guarding him. Also it was just a little callous of Pilate to just let him out of the shop knowing that the high priests were going to do him in. I might be missing a few necessary bits but whatever way you look at it the Romans were just as responsible, for glory or for ill. Again, obviously it wasn't all the Romans in the world either.

I'll buy a significant amount of booze for anyone who stands on a box in St Peter's Square and accuses (in Italian) the Italians of being the guilty parties behind the death of Jesus though.:D

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by Seaneh


I myself don't see her as Anti-Semetic, but I do think she is more than mildly one sided on the issue of the ocupation, I believe that she romantically likens that ocupation with what happened in our past, as I believe a lot of Irish people do, which is ludacris.

I don't see how it's ludicrous. Pretty blindingly obvious in fact.

I have posted this point elsewhere recently but I couldn't find it. For a long time Irish sympathy was with the Jewish people because of their plight as a global persecuted minority. Guys like Daniel O'Connell was an ally of Jewish agitators for greater civil freedoms in 19th century Britain and Michael Davitt was an active Zionist.

The fact that Yitzhak Shamir( or was it Begin) in his terrorist (whoops sorry guerilla) days adopted the code name Misha in memory of Michael Collins implies that there may have been more contact between the IRA and Jewish underground groups than the occasional 'message of fraternal greeting' at an Ard Fheis, or whatever it iwas that Jewish underground movements held in mandate Palestine.

That many Irish people now prioritise their sympathy in favour of the Palestinians has nothing to do with being anti-Jewish per se but everything to do with a distaste for the ethnic cleansing policies consistently followed by Israel since it was founded.

Seaneh

Isreal has never partaken in ethnic cleansing.
That is a blatant lie.
If this were true, there wouldn't be large Arab muslim comunities in most Isreali city.
I sugest you redefine your ideas of what the term "ethnic cleansing" means.

bonkey

Originally posted by Seaneh
Isreal has never partaken in ethnic cleansing.
That is a blatant lie.

So you're saying that a significant number of arabs who lived inside the boundaries of what is now the Israeli state did not leave and become refugees?

Because they did. About half the nation of Jordan's population is reckoned to be Palestinian in origin.

Oh - no - wait. Maybe you're saying that Israel isn't refusing them the right of return to keep them out of the land that was once theirs?

Well, if you are, then you'd be mistaken.

So we have actions which removed a significant proportion of a specific culture from a region (that being the Nation of Israel), coupled with actions deliberately preventing those people from returning.

I believe that could qualify as ethnic cleansing.

jc

bonkey

Originally posted by Seaneh
That is a blatant lie.

I would like you to either show conclusively that Hairy Homer knew what he was saying was untrue, and was deliberately trying to mislead people, or retract that statement.

The mods do not tolerate allegations of lying, which amount to personal attacks on other posters.

jc

Victor

Originally posted by Seaneh
Isreal has never partaken in ethnic cleansing. That is a blatant lie.

So why did 500,000 people leg it out of south Lebanon during Operation Grapes of Wrath? The January sales?

Capt'n Midnight

So her nibbs was being accused of being anti-isreal

it not as if Isreal is exacly flavour of the month at the UN - a large % of all UN resolutions issued by the UN that have not been complied with are against Isreal.

But it's just bad PR the louder they complain the less sympathy I have for their cause, because they have no real grounds. Or is all this noise a smokescreen , or is it vey cleaver reverse psychology seems to be a media issue with the art exhibition and Mel's film and the Irish annual UN anti-discrimination declaration..

There are about 2m arab isreali citizans - don't hear much about thier votes or their elected representives