The much awaited and dreaded Keane thread

Dustaz

Well, someone had to do it.


Thoughts?



For the record, i cant stand him and feel uncomfortable with the thought of him returning to the team ESPECIALLY with this rumoured "i get to coach next" clause.

Theres no doubting the mans talent. Its just a pity he couldnt have had this change of heart when he was originally asked and helped us all have a holiday in portugal this summer. The lack of a decent midfielder was a real problem in the last qualifiers.

mike65

Thank God I'm English (!)

As a neutral I say grow up and get over it (both Roy and the Irish). Quality counts not whether you like someone or not. The Irish midfeild is far better with him and the front men will be glad he's back even if they dont actually put out flags....

Mike.

Pepe LeFrits

Happy that he's back, but he'll be off again soon anyway so the midfield problem will still have to be addressed.

DeVore

Wow... this is unusual, DeV posting in Soccer... ABOUT SOCCER!!

My father is an ex-pro (St Pats, Bohs, QPR) which kinda explains my TOTAL LACK OF INTEREST in soccer beyond the obligatory Ole Ole Ole's. (Hard to have fun kicking a ball around with yer da as a kid when your father can run rings around you )

My father is of the opinion that Keane was set up and was a bit silly to blow his stack but that things had come to a head and the players were treated like shíte and something had to be done about the FAI (which it seems something has, though through personal experience I rated that as having more to with the appointment of Fran Rooney then any petulance from Keane).

While dad backs Keane all the way I think he went too far as I'd sleep on a bed of nails and train with a cannonball if it meant I could represent my country. I'd complain loudly and publically for better conditions and treatment but I'd still play!

I think it needs to be clear that some primma donna cant just walk off and expect to walk back in, that this case was unusual and that Keane is an exception (being fair to the man.... he is exceptional).

You never know Dusty, we may get a reasonable civil debate on this topic given recent events

DeV.

talla

To be honest I've always backed Keane all the way but i'm not too sure about him coming back now. It was a brave decision, but I think he is going to be given hell for every home game. He's in a no win situation, if hes genuinely injured the majority of people/ media are going to assume he's faking it. From the little snippets i've heard of Ferguson during the week, he seems to be throwing around this 5 international matches per year figure, I think Fergie could cause real conflict. I can't see there being any real problems with the current squad as the majority of the players who had issues with Keane are gone - Kelly, Quinn, Stauton, Mcateer(although he was called up for the last friendly) etc.., the majority of the younger players I don't think will have any issues. He will be a good addition to the midfield(anyone is better than Matt "The Ghost" Holland", but in the long run, he won't be given the chance. The Irish physce(sp?) will win out-wanting someone to fail.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Dustaz
Theres no doubting the mans talent. Its just a pity he couldnt have had this change of heart when he was originally asked and helped us all have a holiday in portugal this summer.

I really think he wanted to come back when Kerr took over but we all know Ferguson was the big obsticle. Football is a short career, if Keane went against his managers advice 14 months ago there was a risk of them falling out and forcing Keane out of the club (Stam, Beckham, Bosnich). If the FAI paid his wages I'm sure Keane would have told Alex where to shove his advice. Ferguson must feel Keane deserves it now as he's coming to the end of his career.

The only thing that worries me is that Ferguson said he will only be playing 5 matches a year, I wouldn't want Keane back if he wasn't "doing friendlies" this time around. All eyes will be on tomorrows squad to face Poland I guess.

talla

so you heard that 5 match quote by Ferguson as well Eirebhoy??

I was all ready to post a long tract, and then I read Dev's post and can just say: agreed.
It's hard to fathom who was worse, Mc for allowing personal rancour to facilitate Keanes departure or Keane for not just putting up and shutting up for the sake of the teams sucess.

My mind is the same really as it was during the world cup, Mc's people managing skills just weren't up to surviving Keanes stuborness.
I'm glad to see him back.

irishgeo

Originally posted by eirebhoy
I really think he wanted to come back when Kerr took over but we all know Ferguson was the big obsticle. Football is a short career, if Keane went against his managers advice 14 months ago there was a risk of them falling out and forcing Keane out of the club (Stam, Beckham, Bosnich). If the FAI paid his wages I'm sure Keane would have told Alex where to shove his advice. Ferguson must feel Keane deserves it now as he's coming to the end of his career.

The only thing that worries me is that Ferguson said he will only be playing 5 matches a year, I wouldn't want Keane back if he wasn't "doing friendlies" this time around. All eyes will be on tomorrows squad to face Poland I guess.

i think fergie has copped that keane ispassed his best anyway. i mean he has not played as many matches this season and i think he realises keane needed to play for ireland again so he could settle the deamons.

I think keane would make a great coach. Its nice to see him back and hopefully he gets us to the world cup.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by DeVore
While dad backs Keane all the way I think he went too far as I'd sleep on a bed of nails and train with a cannonball if it meant I could represent my country. I'd complain loudly and publically for better conditions and treatment but I'd still play!

I think it needs to be clear that some primma donna cant just walk off and expect to walk back in, that this case was unusual and that Keane is an exception (being fair to the man.... he is exceptional).

Keane expressed his feelings publicly but you can't say he walkd out on his country (as so many people have said). After his row with Mick (which started over Mick rightly accusing Keane of faking injury) Keane had no choice but to go. One of them had to go because AFIAR McCarthy said he would leave if Keane was allowed back (correct me if I'm wrong though). Whether Keane was sent home or walked is neither here nor there as I've said already, after the row he had no choice but to go as players will more than likely always back their manager.

Keane than had an interview with RTE, he was willing to patch things up with McCarthy for the sake of representing his country (Him and McCarthy were equally at fault in Saipan). McCarthy said it's up to the players (but McCarthy wouldn't stay in charge if he was allowed back) and they refused to allow him back.

I don't know if people will agree with what I just said but from what I did say Keane didn't do anything to not deserve a second chane IMO.

BTW - Can someone clear that up, did McCarthy threaten to leave if Keane came back?

Guy:Incognito

Originally posted by irishgeo
i think fergie has copped that keane ispassed his best anyway. i mean he has not played as many matches this season.

That could be taken in one of two ways. Fair enough he's older and the hip maybe isnt up to a full season, but the fact of Utd's under-achieving season has coinsided(sp?) with Keane not playing in every game could be seen as Utd not coping without him. Or it's a coincidence, but i doubt it. If Keane is nearly finished and not the player he was, then it's an even sadder reflection on Utd that hes the one dragging them through it. At the end of the day, Ireland having any chance of getting even a piont out of either of the france games is going to depend on how well Keane does against Viera and Zidane, and if we do then that will say something about a 33 year old "has-been"

He'll be there to bridge a gap between now and when a new player (Miller?) comes through, which is exactly the same as the situation at Utd. Personally I think the man is the best player we've ever had and one of the best, if not the best player in his position for a long, long time ad if thats the player we have filling this "stop-gap" position, we are doing extremely well. Most other countries would kill to have Keane in their team.

I'm also of the opinion that, for his own sake he would probably been better off not coming back, for the reason that there will be a lot of foolish people who will boo and hassle him. From my own experience , the only members of my family and friends who dont agree with Keane and dont want him back are the one who dont know about football. I play indoor football every week with a group of people ( several of whom are former LOI players) who i have only ever seen agree on one thing, Keane. Whereas the non football savvy people are oof this opinion that McCarthy is great and right in the whole situation. Where this opinion of McCarthy comes from I dont know, it certainly wasnt his footbal or management skills or achievments.


Conclusion: Keane is back and thats a great thing.

jesus_thats_gre

Not happy that he is back but it will probably be for the better!

GuanYin

I previously said he wouldn't come back and wasn't upset by that stance, but to be perfectly honest now that it has come to pass I'm not at all unhappy.

Kerr has taken Ireland a step forward this past year and I now believe we have a strong team at the back, a reasonable attack and good options on the wings. Where we lack strength and experience is central midfield.

Look at the last few matches, 3 first division midfielders:Kavanagh -a 30 year old under achiever, McAteer and Kinsella are both Keanes age, and Holland - a total enigma at international level as he is not even the outline of a shadlow of the club player he is, Kilbane - a winger and Delap, probably our most promising option if he could only stay fit.

It doesn't read well.

With Keane back we now have an anchor to play that fluid football that Ireland has produced glimpses of in the last 2 matches. Keane should serve as a perfect foil for a creative player like Reid work hard and add creativity or bless even Miller or Healy if they fulfill their promise and become the players to replace Keane.

To sum it up, Ireland have looked a player short of being a finished article. That player looked to be a central midfielder and to be honest, that central midfielder looked to be someone the likes of Keane.

If he plays for 18 months and leaves with Miller and Healy and Delap capable of holding their own, I'll think Kerr has once again come up trumps.

Tellox

Glad he's back. Think of our midfield with keane, and then without it. We really dont have many options in that area, and just about any national squad would find a place for him.

What Im worried about though, is him leading us to WC2006, and then not playing in it...

Guy:Incognito

Originally posted by Tellox


What Im worried about though, is him leading us to WC2006, and then not playing in it...

I've no doubt that. If it's down to him, he'll be playing. The only thing is will his ody hold up to it. He may be forced to retire before the world cup. It's a very tough group tho, we might not get there either way.

I dont think he should have to playin friendlies, IMO friendlies are a waste of time, at best they should be used for managers to check on new players or try out small things. Players like Keane dont need to be tested or checked in positions, he'll fit in regardless. Players in England play too many games as is and Keane is finding it hard to play a full season for Utd so whats the point in forcing him to play in meaningless games so that he can prove himself to be allowed to play in games which, quite frankly we need him. Cant remember who it was, but i recall a story a while back about FIFA looking to ban a player from club football who decided to stay with his club rather than go to an international game, surely it should be the players choice, and if they choose not to, its then the managers choice whether to pick them again. At the end of the day friendlies are pointless money spinners that player could do without.

Big Ears

I agree completely with syke .

And the player FiFa wanted and did ban was Marc Viduka . A lot of football asscoaciations have a system in place where they can get Fifa to ban players if they dont turn up for internationals .

2006 world cup here we come

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Stekelly
I dont think he should have to playin friendlies, IMO friendlies are a waste of time, at best they should be used for managers to check on new players or try out small things. Players like Keane dont need to be tested or checked in positions, he'll fit in regardless.

Ever here the saying "Money doesn't buy success"? The same principal applies here. Players need time to gel and that is what friendlies can be used for, we can't just stick Keane in against Cyprus as it would be the first time that all 11 players played together. I am sure Keane will get called up tomorrow but I wouldn't put money on him playing in the match.

Tellox

I doubt he'll make his comeback against poland. As stated by eleven-a-side.com , keane will more then likely make his comeback against Romania, at lansdowne road.

Jesus, the 3games 1ticket is really proving its value now...

first, we draw(and outplay at times) with the world champions
second, we take the unofficial world champions title off the czechs, who were unbeaten in 20
And finally, we might see Keane make his international comeback after a near-2year exile.

Really, think about it for a moment.
Would keane prefer to make his international comeback away in poland, with about 1000 irish fans watching, or a 30,000 strong lansdowne road?

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Tellox
Would keane prefer to make his international comeback away in poland, with about 1000 irish fans watching, or a 30,000 strong lansdowne road?

One things for sure, he will have to play with more pressure on his shoulders than any other match in his life. When Miller played his first match for Celtic since he signed the contract with United he had a good game. He didn't get too many boo's on his home "debut" since he had performed well in previous away games. He than played bad against Livingston and Vilerreal. The fans are really getting on his back and when he came on as a substitute today he got the worst reception so far. He had another bad game today and the pressure is growing.

Keane will know that he will have to perform really well to shut the booers up and the pressure will be immense.

gandalf

Well personally I am disgusted he has been let back. As Dev said nearly ever footballer would endure extreme hardships just to get a chance to play in the World Cup. I agree that McCarthy made a mess of things, the FAI made a mess of things but you do not turn your back on your own country 2 weeks before a major tournament.

This is a step backwards. Yes he was a good player but he is 33 now and carrying a dodgy hip. It would make more sense to give the younger players a run now to strenghten the team before the WC qualifiers.

Keane is more likely to pick up another injury and I believe is giving a false sense of optimism to the fans.

Gandalf.

(ps anyone else think as I do that Ferguson might be unloading Roy this summer?)

Guy:Incognito

Originally posted by gandalf


Keane is more likely to pick up another injury and I believe is giving a false sense of optimism to the fans.

From reading a few posts since the Brazil game, I think Brazil turning up at lansdowne road with no intention of trying to win the game has given Irish fans the biggest false sense of optimisn, People seem to think we've been propelled to being a world beating team with a couple of decent results in friendslies. These games mean nothing and the only way to judge a team is in competitive games. So. going by our most recent round of competitive games we are 3rd best in a group of teams that includes Russia and Switzerland, not a team capable of taking points off brazil in a meaningful game.

The idea of football is to win, and the fact of the matter is, we have a much better chance of that with Roy Keane in the team, so people's opinion on him personaaly or what happened two years ago is irrelevant.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Stekelly
From reading a few posts since the Brazil game, I think Brazil turning up at lansdowne road with no intention of trying to win the game has given Irish fans the biggest false sense of optimisn, People seem to think we've been propelled to being a world beating team with a couple of decent results in friendslies.

Sorry Off Topic but so many people are saying that Brazil didn't try. Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos both didn't have very good games but they tried there very best and Carlos was getting very angry with himself for putting in bad crosses. The goalkeeper, Dida, was roaring his head off whenever the camera was on him. Roque Junior and Lucio didn't have the best of games either but they still tried and didn't concede. Cafu had a great battle with Reid. Ronaldinho, Kaka and Ze Roberto were the only players that weren't really up for it. Brazil had a bad game but most of the players tried their best. I'd love to see the match again as I'm losing my memory.

I didn't want Keane back because he said he was only going to play in the qualifiers and that was only taking the place of someone else to develop but now that I think of it I'm glad he's back. It also seems more likely that he'll play in the world cup, presuming we get there and his body can hack it.

Nike_Dude

Whatever I may think about the guy personally I am glad to see him back. His hip mightnt be great but he has a great presence and really pushes the team.
I cant see any problems with him fitting back into the fold, all the supposed yes men of the McCarthy regime are all but gone, and most of the team are glad to see him back.
He may have turned his back on his country but personally I wouldnt blame him for it. The whole Saipan thing was a shambles for everyone concerned and it cost us what would have been a great run in the finals

smemon

Originally posted by Nike_Dude
His hip mightnt be great

you'd swear we're talking about an 80-yr-old here! roy keane is not old, not past it and has another tournament in him at least. there has been a HUGE gap in midfield since he left, kinsella and holland were made look good because they were playing beside him. (like babb with mcgrath in '94, babb looked actually decent).

miller and keane in the centre and you cant go wrong. duff on the left and we've 3 of the best midfielders in the world. if only we had an answer to that right side. it feels like were just patching up that side with leftovers from other positions.

GuanYin

Originally posted by smemon
miller and keane in the centre and you cant go wrong. duff on the left and we've 3 of the best midfielders in the world..

*boggle*

Miller is one of the best midfielders in the world?

smemon

yes, he's the best all round player ive seen in a long time. bags of energy and fight, he'll become invaluable for ireland. experience at manu at the highest level can only further develope him.

the reason we dont see him as world class is because he's hidden up there in the scottish league and we dont see him week in week out. (nobodys seen him since his agreement with manu, a few games here and there and he's supposed to have been injured.) miller is lightyears ahead of holland and kinsella imo, he's got far more class about him, all he needs is a bit more experience.

Guy:Incognito

i think its a bit early to start calling miller world class. As you said, hes very good in the Scottish league, but so are a lot of others (Sutton & Hartson anyone?), The thing is, hes got a big step up to take next season in England. I think it'll take two or three seasons of being a top premiership player and playing at international level before he can be considered world class.

kida

Bottom Line - If the manager wants him to play then we have got to trust his judgement, he obviously feels that Keane can still bring something to the team. I say get behind Kerr and ensure we have a chance to get to the world cup.

I think he will be just be playing a holding role and will allow the full backs to be more adventurous.

I am not sure he will play against Poland - hope he does as it would be better to make his comeback away from home. He has missed all United matches since the cup semi.

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by syke
*boggle*

Miller is one of the best midfielders in the world?

Don't mind smemon, he's getting a bit over-excited again. He was saying Howard was the best keeper in the world after about ten games at United. :rolleyes:

the reason we dont see him as world class is because he's hidden up there in the scottish league and we dont see him week in week out.

And the reason you can't call him world-class is because he's playing in Scotland, which is a pub league. Why not wait until he's been at United for three/four years then we can see how world class he is.

Xterminator

Originally posted by gandalf


This is a step backwards. Yes he was a good player but he is 33 now and carrying a dodgy hip. It would make more sense to give the younger players a run now to strenghten the team before the WC qualifiers.

Keane is more likely to pick up another injury and I believe is giving a false sense of optimism to the fans.

Gandalf.

(ps anyone else think as I do that Ferguson might be unloading Roy this summer?)

Gandalf,

I think that Irelands midfield with out Keane was too weak. the other options just are not there. You cant pick first division, or 'squad' players and expect them to take points off France etc. and get us to the WC.

Can you honestly tell me who would have been better?

I'm glad Roy's back tbh, but more importantly, it's like the ireland team pulled off a big signing by getting keane back! And thats a nice feeling when your team signs a big 'un!

As for Keane leaving, i dont think they have a ready made replacement yet. That Dejemba X2 bloke is a bit of a let down
As for Miller, he's untried in the premiership, and will probably need a season to bed in. that leave Butt who's not pulling his weight at all in midfield!
So i think alex will need a big signing in the summer in the middle of the park, or he'll need Keane for another season!

X

LoneGunM@n

Originally posted by gandalf
(ps anyone else think as I do that Ferguson might be unloading Roy this summer?)

The minute I saw the interview with Fergie over Keane's return to the Ireland fold, I got the sinking feeling that Fegrie's gonna sell him on in the summer ... Since when has Fergie ever been supportive of any of the United players playing for their country

Ronan|Raven

Right hes coming back now whether people like it or not. As much as I dislike the man there is do denying his talent. I wont say much more as it has all been said already but one thing that will annoy me to high hell is if Kenny Cunningham is stripped of the captaincy and it has handed straight back to Keane. That imho would be very bad form. What messages would that send out to the players who may be not 100% behind him coiming back? That one cna just march back in and get back everything?

johnor

Im glad he is back. I think improvements have been made to the FAI, I don't think those changes would have been made had keane stayed quite like all the other 'senior' players did. Maybe Saipan wasn't the best place to vent these feelings but I think his feelings peeked when he saw the lousy conditions etc. In terms of platforms to speak about such things can't get much better; A world cup in which the whole nation will listen what any player says and will still talk about it nearly 2 years later. I think he will play against poland, as it will be easier for fans to see him playing against romania knowing that he has already played against poland(if u catch my drift).


Anyway Glad to have keane back,

john

talla

Originally posted by Ronan|Raven
Right hes coming back now whether people like it or not. As much as I dislike the man there is do denying his talent. I wont say much more as it has all been said already but one thing that will annoy me to high hell is if Kenny Cunningham is stripped of the captaincy and it has handed straight back to Keane. That imho would be very bad form. What messages would that send out to the players who may be not 100% behind him coiming back? That one cna just march back in and get back everything?

definitely agree about the captaincy, cunningham should be left as the captain

johnor

Cunningham has said he would be happy to give keane the captiancy back should kerr decide it is for the good of the team. I think keane has more of a presence as captain. Only kerr can decide i guess.


john

Villain

Firstly delighted the soccer forum is back.

My 2 cents.

I don't like Roy Keane, very have and never will, mostly beacuse of his tackle on Haaland. I do believe he is one of the best soccer players to have ever worn a Green Jersey.

I am not going to say that he shouldn't be allowed back because if it's for the good of the Irish team then obviously he should be allowed play. I am still in 2 minds if it is for the good of the team, I think he's return could unsettle the team who have been playing great as a unit.

I also think he has to be treated the exact same as any other member of the squad, i.e play friendlies train etc.

On a little side note, my auld fella was in Barcelona 2 weeks ago with some Juvenile teams and there was an FAI official with them, he told the auld fella Keane would be returning but he also said that the storys about rows in the camp during the czech build up were true.

He said that Keane had told Kerr certain things he THOUGHT should be implemented this was during Kerr's meeting to get him back. Apparently one of these changes was that the players now get a very strict roster for the 5 or so days when an international friendly is on, which excludes time to see family and friends.

He went on to say that Carr was NOT INJURED for the czech game but refused to play because of the new roster in place!!

_blank_

Glad to see the Soccer Forum back, hopefully we can get on with things in a proper manner, and not have any more closure incidents.

On to the topic at hand now.

I welcome the return of Keane, but with reservations. I am a Manchester United supporter, and this return looks loke Keane may be on the way out of United now.

However, another way of looking at it, is that Alex Ferguson agreed to allow Keane back in the hope that he can build a good partnership with Liam Miller in the midfield, an experiment that Ferguson may be unwilling to undertake at United.

As already stated, it seems to be no coincidence that United's ( relatively ) unsuccessful season has come at a time when Keane has been used sparingly by Ferguson throughout.

Whatever the reasoning behind it, we as Ireland supporters must get behind the manager, and ANY players that he chooses to wear the Green Jersey, no matter what personal feelings we have toward said players, whoever they are.

Roy Keane, when he eventually does return, in whatever match, deserves to be supported as much as the next player in a jersey. What happened in the past cannot be changed, although it has to be said, that the Genesis report and whatever changes have been made within the FAI, while may have in the pipeline, the Saipan incident brought the misgivings of the players to the forefront of the publics consciousness. We demanded changes to the running of our National Team in the wake of farcial running of the Saipan training facilities, whoever was to blame.

It is my opinion that any team affairs rest firmly with the manager, it is up to that individual to ensure that the players have the best of facilities, and all other things relating to the players must be up to correct standards. If they are not then players have every right to make representations to the manager via the captain.

redspider

(First, glad to see that the/a Soccer forum is back up and running. It was closed for too long in my opinion as valuable discussion time was lost and people moved off to other locations on the net. I hope those that still feel aggrieved will be accommodated in due course).

The Roy Keane “debate” started again during the forum “closure”. The Roy debate is an emotive issue which at times lacks rationality. Roy’s announcement of availability came as a surprise for many, including myself. I’ve listened to some of the “debate” on radio, TV, newspapers, on the net and now on boards.ie and most of the valid points on both “sides” have been put forward. Here are my opinions:

Lets remind ourselves about some of the facts. Roy “left” the squad at the world cup, the biggest stage for any footballer and at a time when our country, which has taken national pride and has driven the populace to levels of fervour, needed him. What happened there has been discussed at length, by people that were “in that room”, people that were outside “that room” and people back here. What has also been discussed is the breakdown in relationship between Roy and Mick in the run-up to that. This was demonstrated by the body language during that infamous handshake after the Ireland win against Holland. All of the team were celebrating that day - except Roy!

Roy hadn’t been getting on with Mick (or indeed all in the team) for some time. When Roy went to Saipan, he didn’t seem to be in a good mood and every small thing made him ratty. There was his “bust-up” with Packie Bonner and his isolation in the camp. He didn’t go out with the rest of the lads when they had a few jars. Roy is a tempermental chap at the best of times and during these days in Saipan he was just not being a team member. For a manager such as Mick and the rest of the coaching staff, they had to hope that giving the appropriate “prima donna” attention that Roy was seeking, that the situation could be managed. But it wasn’t to be. Roy got angry with Mick for saying that he feigned injury. It is a known fact that all club teams often exaggerate players strains/injuries and refrain from releasing them for international duty. Roy knows this. Roy didn’t play for Ireland on occasions where he played for Man U the following week. QED. Roy just couldn’t at that point take anything from Mick. He was in no fit state to lead a team. Roy communicated his points through the media and so it came to a head. In a way, Roy nearly wanted to be sent home. He also had a long-term injury and soon after he had a hip-op. That seemed to be playing on his mind. All the team knew that with a “saner” Roy, they would have a better chance, but with Roy in such a mood, they were all probably better off without him. The team rallied around itself and went on to do reasonably well. No-one doubts his playing ability – and everyone is aware of his temperament.

Ferguson has a part to play in this too, as does the hip operation. Keep in mind that Roy was in constant contact with his solicitor while in Saipan and was a loner in the camp. Roy’s best friend those days was his solicitor at the end of a phone – that is not good. He was given the special treatment that prima donna's get but he just kept pushing the envelope, as he does. I guess Roy's problem is that he battles against his own at times and in Saipan had worked himself into a position that he couldn't get out of. Ferguson wanted him home asap so having the hip-op for the next season. Roy's solicitor would have had that in mind as well. Roy was influenced by these “friends”.

And did you hear the story about walking the dog? Roy was holed up in his house in England after Saipan with the press camped outside. He got a call from his solicitor that Diadora will give him an ex-gratia payment for visible publicity so he started walking the dog everyday visibly wearing Diadora kit. This was no accident. Roy can be influenced at times and as he comes from a very poor background in Cork sometimes he lets money get the better of him.

I was against Roy for his handling of the Saipan affair. If he really wanted to play for Ireland, he would have. Maybe he should have been given an extra week off before heading out ie: skip Saipan. But probably for a multitude of reasons Roy was “sent home” for his own good. As for Mick, I think the problem with Roy and himself, these personal issues, had been rumbling for nigh on a decade and before Mick got the job. Roy never respected Mick. They had a working relationship, but that was it. I don’t blame Mick as I think he went as far as he could. Lets all be honest with ourselves - Mick is not a footballing genius. But, if you have ever managed people in your life, whether in a team sport or in a business, you will be aware of the “prima donna” concept, which if pushed too far has to be rectified. Stan, Quinn, Bonner all recognised that. Roy went over the line, way over the line.

So what has changed? Many things. Roy’s level of injuries have abated somewhat but Roy is getting older – the clock is ticking. Roy realised (soon after Saipan) that he really did want to play for Ireland. Probably as soon as he was waiting in the queue to get the plane back. Alex Ferguson’s tenure at Man U has become less stable. Man U have been less successful this season. Man U also have more Irish ownership with JP McManus and Magnier (could it have been part of the horse deal?) Many Celtic supporters don’t want Roy to play at Celtic due to Saipan. Roy has a dreamers penchant for Celtic. Not playing for Ireland is something that is niggling Roy. Ireland’s results have been going very well without Roy, with good results in the EC qualifiers and the friendlies against Brazil and Czech R. Lets all ask ourselves this question: if Ireland had got stuffed by Brazil and Czech R and we didn’t have the likes of Duff, Robbie Keane, Morrison, etc doing well, would Roy even think about coming back? The answer is No. Roy hates failure.

Roy has managed to persuade (or has he?) Alex Ferguson. He has managed to persuade Brian Kerr. But he hasn’t managed to persuade all of the Irish fans. Brian is aware of that and hence the planned return for Roy is seemingly the away game against Poland to mitigate any potential booing at Lansdowne Rd. Also, Roy has not played for Man U since the announcement. So, things seem to be all set.

However, Brian Kerr is taking the biggest risk. The current team has by now learned to live without Roy. Now, its a wound opened up again. The players will get on with it but how will say Kenny Cunningham feel and play if Roy starts spouting verbally on the pitch. The players will say that they welcome Roy back but inside and on the pitch is where it counts and I think there must be some negative aspects to it. Its a risk that Brian Kerr is taking who obviously feels for Roy and feels that its worth it, but it may not work out. If Roy plays brilliantly on the pitch all will be forgiven by everyone, but we will have to wait and see if that happens. Everyone keeps talking about how Roy is the best player, the best midfield player, better than Matt Holland, etc. How is this going to make those players feel and perform? I am waiting to see how he plays before I can give final judgement on this. I will watch (and analyse) every kick and run that he and the other midfielders make.

The big question for Irish fans is what to do. If Roy apologises for something, he would get a good welcome, but if he doesn't (and he is likely not to) he puts it up to the Irish fans. Some may boo in Lansdowne or in Warsaw, but most wont. Even those that do boo him wont do it for long.


For many Irish fans, Roy Keane is a god that can do no wrong. For them, he never will do any wrong. For those that are more partisan and analytical of the person and his abilities, Roy is a long way from being a god. He has frailities and makes mistakes. Saipan being one of them. I don’t know the chap any better than anyone else, I’ve drank with him once for a couple of hours but that was a decade ago and Roy has matured as a person since, educating himself, reading, etc. He is a very dedicated. Lets hope that if he does play in Sep that he will add to the whole teams performance.

-redspider

eirebhoy

I said in the thread in Feedback/Suggestions that I would be willing to vouch for redspider even though he only had 7 posts. I think his post above proves just why I was willing to do so.

Excellent post. But, you say he wasn't sent home. Whether he was or wasn't there is no denying that he had no choice but to go after the row with Mick.

talla

some intresting points RedSpider, don't agree with the majority but interesting none the less. However one point i totally disagree with is that the team had good results in the EC qualifiers, eh what were the good results???

Dustaz

Originally posted by redspider
best post ever seen on this board

Good lord, is this really the soccer board?

Best post ive read here in a long long long time.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Dustaz
Good lord, is this really the soccer board?

Best post ive read here in a long long long time.

Originally posted by eirebhoy
From reading DeVore's posts I presume it will become a private forum but if it had become a private forum a few weeks ago redspider would not be a member of boards. He knows his stuff about football and seems like a really decent person but I presume he wouldn't fall under the criterea to become a member of the soccer board. I'll stick my neck out and risk getting a future ban to get him into the forum as I really doubt he will get a ban and I love to read what he has to say about footballing matters (even though he hasn't posted very much).

redspider

To eirebhoy:

Officially the people in charge of the trip within the FAI didnt allow him to
continue from Saipan. Where Roy went from there was up to him. I agree
that this is equivalent to being sent home, but as you have pointed out
on several postings, whether he was sent home or not is a moot point,
as either way he couldn't continue. Roy was forced, not necessarily by
others, into a corner and he came out fuming! Having a captain that
has no respect for the manager as a person and publicly saying this
is just not on - not in a team sport.

One other point you raised was whether it was a case of Mick saying its
either him or me. Overall, I dont think it was a case of Mick on one
side, Roy on the other side and the players in between. I think the
FAI were stuck between a rock and a hard place, as were the players.
I also recall something being said along those lines at some stage,
but whether this is actual fact or some article in the newspaper is
difficult to tell. It wouldn't surprise me but overall this was just a
difficult situation for everyone. Simply, if Roy wanted to play he
would have bitten his tongue and played his heart out letting his
feet do the talking on the pitch. Roy had too many things on his mind
to really think this thing out properly.
ps: thanks for your endorsements


To talla:

In relation to the EC results, their results improved after the first two
matches, which were unfortunate and due more to a euphoria hangover
from the world cup campaign than anything else. The results in
Kerrs time have been good, although I was majorly dissapointed by
the display at Lansdowne when I went to see them against the
Russians. The key point is that if Ireland had been doing woeful
there would be no sign of Roy. Yes, I may have stretched the comment
a bit.

talla

to be honest i wouldn't call drawing away against Albania, losing away against switzerland, drawing at home against Russia, barely beating albania and georgia at home even half decent results(apart from georgia away, tough match because of atmosphere). Not one of the teams listed above are world beaters!

eirebhoy

Originally posted by redspider
Officially the people in charge of the trip within the FAI didnt allow him to
continue from Saipan. Where Roy went from there was up to him. I agree
that this is equivalent to being sent home, but as you have pointed out
on several postings, whether he was sent home or not is a moot point,
as either way he couldn't continue. Roy was forced, not necessarily by
others, into a corner and he came out fuming! Having a captain that
has no respect for the manager as a person and publicly saying this
is just not on - not in a team sport.

I agree with most of your points but we knew all about Roy before the Saipan incident. We knew he and McCarthy weren't the best of friends, he missed several friendlies and he hates failure, etc. but what has changed? If anything, he has changed for the good. I doubt he'll miss another international friendly and his attidude has changed completely with only 2 red cards in 2 years (the McAteer and Vitor Baia incidents).

Since the World Cup everyone is bringing up things from the past which we never seemed to have much of a problem with before. The Keane of old would have probably got himself sent off against Arsenal at OT but instead he made friends by calming down an old rival, Patrick Vieira. I believe he is a changed person and it all should be forgotten.

BTW - Apparanty Ireland's allocation of tickets for the Poland match are sold out. I don't know how many there was but its good to hear.

Villain

Originally posted by irish1
On a little side note, my auld fella was in Barcelona 2 weeks ago with some Juvenile teams and there was an FAI official with them, he told the auld fella Keane would be returning but he also said that the storys about rows in the camp during the czech build up were true.

He said that Keane had told Kerr certain things he THOUGHT should be implemented this was during Kerr's meeting to get him back. Apparently one of these changes was that the players now get a very strict roster for the 5 or so days when an international friendly is on, which excludes time to see family and friends.

He went on to say that Carr was NOT INJURED for the czech game but refused to play because of the new roster in place!!

Has anyone else heard about this??

eirebhoy

Originally posted by irish1
Has anyone else heard about this??

I heard a few stories about a bust up but I didn't hear a definite reason. One of the reasons was a few players weren't happy that they had to watch video's of the likes of Canada and Kerr was going over the top with his preperations for friendlies. I definitely find it very strange that Carr could get injured in training on the day of the match when they would hardly be doing a lot to cause an injury. A few players have denied that there had been a bust up but I'm sure there was. It should be sorted out over the phone by now anyway.

Villain

Originally posted by eirebhoy
It should be sorted out over the phone by now anyway.

Don't think so, the information I got was that Carr and a few others were not at all happy and that there could be big problems in the future.

smemon

was mentioned here cunningham should still be captain?! dont make me laugh, ive the utmost respect for cunningham as a player and solid defender but he's useless as a captain compared to roy.

he's not a fiery, aggresive character and doesnt strike fear into anyone. you play a bad pass and your forgiven with cunningham, with keane you make sure you dont do it again. i dont care if the whole world, fans and all the players hate roy keane, he'll IMPROVE the side which is the bottom line.

as said before we should all just get behind the team (just like you anti-keane people said during the world cup) whether we like it or not.

Dustaz

Originally posted by smemon

as said before we should all just get behind the team (just like you anti-keane people said during the world cup) whether we like it or not.

And unlike the "I hope they lose" Pro-Keane Brigade you mean ?:)

I think most reasonable ireland fans will get behind the team no matter if hes in it or not. A nations team is bigger than the whims of one man (player or coach).

My biggest worry at this stage is still this coaching clause which hasnt been mentioned so far. Its possible i misunderstood but on the radio (Might have been on pat kenny, cant remember), Some sports analyst insisted that he had a 'first refusal' clause in this comeback agreement where he gets to be first in line to manage the team if/when kerr leaves.

I havent heard anything about that elsewhere so i may have imagined it or misunderstood the report.

Anyone?

Jivin Turkey

I dont actually think anyone will not get behind the team if keane plays. But I dont think he should be captain (also cunningham doesnt deserve to lose it), seeing as he probably wont play in all the friendlies etc. And besides, he doesnt need an armband to have his presence felt.

But can anyone answer the question, how come he didnt come back a year ago? When we needed him more. Apparently his body couldnt sustain the extra few games a year ago, but now, even though he is older it can??? What if he picks up another nasty injury? Will he throw away his jersey for the second time?

I am glad he is back however as it will improve the team.