Spain pulling troops out of Iraq

dangerman

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3637523.stm

I'm surprised that they're pulling out pre-June 30th - what do people think of this?

While I understand the lack of support, particularly in the wake of the bombings, i feel most sorry for the Iraqis - if more international forces follow suit, the country is going to decend into chaos - I think the Americans have proven that they can't manage the country effectively by themselves; they need all the help they can get. Granted Spain only has 1,300 troups there, but it's still a significant blow to the coalition to have a country pull out.

On the otherhand, with coalition forces gone, some would say Iraq would finally have its freedom.

Also, the impact on American public opinion and George's campaign for re-election - this must be another indirect nail in the coffin.

MeatProduct

I welcome the move by the Spanish government, at least they are some way in touch with their population.

Nick

emmaisbornfree

brilliant news, lets hope every other country follows suit!!!!!!!!

End the illigeal occupation!!

gandalf

Surprised by this as well. I would have thought they would withdraw the troops after the handover. Fair play to the new Spanish Prime Minister for sticking to his guns, I wonder will Spanish food and wine get the same treatment as the French over in the US now.

This is a definate dent in George Jr's re-election prospects as well, as the Axis of Diesel starts to splinter.

Gandalf.

TomF

Oops

gandalf

Tom I think whats happened is the government is carrying out the original will of their people which the previous government ignored.

Gandalf.

TomF

I tried to post a reply, and hit the new topic button, then tried to edit out the new topic and make it a reply, and lost the text. So now I'm just going to say, "Doh!" and watch TV.

gandalf

nps Tom threads merged

FFS just realised you edited that post !!!

Bah can't win

Memnoch

this is excellent news...
I hope other countries follow Spain as it departs from the Coalition of TERROR....

Sand

This is great news for the people of Iraq. Were a step closer to a power vaccumn. Hurrah.

Moriarty

^^

YaY we're all going to heaven!

sigh.

The Muppet

Bad news for the coalition and The Iraqi people. Lets hope for their sake that they will not be abandoned by any other country. Whatever peoples feeling are about the legitimacy of the war its difficult to see how pulling out now will benefit the ordinary people of Iraq.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

krattapopov

gutsy move by spain.... good work

BarryFry

Great news for maniacs with Kalashnikovs!

If you fancy letting off a few clips and dancing in front of a camera, get out there now!!!

The Corinthian

All other things being equal Spain’s departure from the coalition was inevitable. Spain’s recent ultimatum, for UN control of Iraq, was as likely to be fulfilled as Austria-Hungary’s ultimatum to Serbia in 1914 - i.e. not a hope and perhaps was never designed to be accepted anyway. However, Spain’s timing and execution leaves a lot to be desired.

To begin with this announcement comes ahead of the June handover, so that it looks presumptions to say the least. Additionally, it’s still too soon since the Madrid bombings (and only a few days after Bin Laden’s offer of truce), adding credence to the opinion that this decision, regardless of protestations of being the “will of the Spanish people”, is a tacit capitulation to terrorism. Spain could have quietly held out until the June deadline, pointed to the inevitable inadequacies of the handover when it took place and have withdrawn from Iraq with far greater grace. For bonus points, it would have been much closer to the US presidential elections.

Regardless of one’s position in the pros and cons of this sorry fiasco, the new Spanish government has highlighted its lack of experience with this example of ham-fisted Bushesque diplomacy.

mike65

Ditto everything The Corinthian said...

Mike.

ReefBreak

One-Nil to Al Qaeda. Terrorism works, let's kill more innocent civilians on trains and see what we can gain from it.

brilliant news, lets hope every other country follows suit!!!!!!!!

Yeah. Pull out, and let the country descend into a chaos far worse than it's in now.

Yeah. Pull out, and let the country descend into a chaos far worse than it's in now.

I'm just curious but where are all these assumptions that the country would be in more chaos if Coalition forces did indeed withdraw? At the moment they're in there, and theres still a war going on. In fact, the Coalition is seeing more resistance now than when they invaded against Saddam.

So, is this just speculation that the country will be worse off, or rather is it just that if the coalition leaves, theres no assurance that the Coalition will be able to place a puppet/pro-western government?

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
One-Nil to Al Qaeda.

No I'd say 1-nil to democracy, the people of spain elected this man on his promise and he has carried out his promise, very brave.

If only Bertie could follow through on his promises:D

Mighty_Mouse

One-Nil to Al Qaeda. Terrorism works, let's kill more innocent civilians on trains and see what we can gain from it

I would think its democracr thats working

Sleipnir

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Spain’s recent ultimatum, for UN control of Iraq, was as likely to be fulfilled as Austria-Hungary’s ultimatum to Serbia in 1914 - i.e. not a hope and perhaps was never designed to be accepted anyway. However, Spain’s timing and execution leaves a lot to be desired.

First off, this was not an ultimatum on Spain's part, America had said last year that the handover would occur on June 30th. Everyone now know that it will not happen on that date.

Additionally, it’s still too soon since the Madrid bombings (and only a few days after Bin Laden’s offer of truce),

The Spanish PM had said that he would pull Spanish troops out of Iraq just before he was brought to power. Long before the 'Truce' offer.


The people of Spain were, on the whole, against sending their troops to support the war/occupation in Iraq.
The Spanish PM is simply carrying out the wishes of the electorate by withdrawing.

Hobbes

Originally posted by ReefBreak
One-Nil to Al Qaeda. Terrorism works, let's kill more innocent civilians on trains and see what we can gain from it. Yeah. Pull out, and let the country descend into a chaos far worse than it's in now.

Actually the majority of the Spanish population were against the war in Iraq and troops were sent in against their wishes.

The train probably made more people go and vote.

Btw, AQ said they want Bush to win next election. Does that mean if he wins then the terrorism works?

Btw, AQ said they want Bush to win next election. Does that mean if he wins then the terrorism works?

Well, he's AQ's best recruiter ever.

bonkey

Originally posted by ReefBreak
One-Nil to Al Qaeda.

I'm wondering...

If bin Laden makes a speech effectively saying "bring it on, I challenge you" to the nations of the world....will you be calling continued American and international action taken against terrorism and Al Qaeda in specific a caving in to terrorism as well? Proof that terrorism works?

What if bin Laden said that he won't attack anyone who breates air? Would youy smother yourself to death rather than capitulating to those damn terrorists?

What cracks me up is this. Prior to the US invasion of Iraq, the only part of that country which had any identifiable connections to international terrorism was the Northern No Fly Zone. Since the US removed Saddam from power, they have created the perfect climate for terrorism and possibly also for fundamentalist Islam to thrive in.

Now bin Laden is saying "leave and we will leave you alone". The most common mindset - as echoed here by Reef and the likes - is that we shouldn't do what he says. Sure we shouldn't. In fact, we should continue with renewed vigour, creating more and better hotbeds for terrorism and fundamentalist Islam to thrive in. We should continue to support any nation which furthers the perception - whether you agree with it or not - that this is indeed a clash of civilisations - of "the West" vs "Islam".

Has it even occurred to those who would make comments like "one-nil" that - if anything - Spain have done what bin Laden didn't want??? That he wanted them to defy him - thus both 'legitimising' any further attacks Al Qaeda makes against Spain (in the sense that Al Qaeda wouldn't be seen as hypocrites had Spain remained) and also ensuring that there was more weight and momentum to the West/Islam and the whole "create a hotbed for terorrism" movements.

jc

emmaisbornfree

Spain could have quietly held out until the June deadline, pointed to the inevitable inadequacies of the handover when it took place and have withdrawn from Iraq with far greater grace.

And what put innocent Spanish lives at risk ? or have poor spanish troops murdered in Iraq ? How can you say such a thing? the people of spain have spoken !

WITHDRAWN NOW AND END THE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION!!!!!!!

The United Kingdoms imperial forces such be removed too!!

Stop supporting Bush and Sharons policies in the middle east !

WITHDRAWN NOW AND END THE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION!!!!!!!

Its not an illegal occupation. International Law has no power.

have poor spanish troops murdered in Iraq ?

Murdered? They went over as soldiers, carrying weapons. They died as soldiers carrying weapons. Hardly murder.

emmaisbornfree, I really hope you're takling the piss?

Gurgle

There's a traditional term for terrorists who are terrorising an occupying army on their native ground:

The resistance

AKA freedom fighters

Before anyone goes nuts, I am NOT talking about AQ or the attack on Spain, I'm talking about the Iraqis who are enthustiastically resisting the occupation.

The occupation have backed themselves into a no-win situation.
The Iraqis quite clearly don't want them there but if they move out, we could be watching decades of civil war on CNN.

Isn't that why GB senior chased Hussein out of Kuwait then went home ?

emmaisbornfree

No i am not "taking the piss", the war in Iraq is WRONG. There is no UN resolution for the war!! how can you talk about killing people so cheaply???????

How can you support the Bush doctrine of American Imperalisim?

The likes of Cheny and the wolfistein guy have blood on their hands and have more in common with Bin laden and "taking orders from god" are all going to hell.

emmaisbornfree, its not a matter of supporting Bush. Its facing the fact that theres no way to stop him. The UN have no power over the major nations, so invoking them is of no use.

woody

The Terrorists won in Spain, that moron who pulled troops out did think this through.


Oh lets pull troops out because Al Qaidea said they dont like the taste of spainish beer, so everything the terrorists object to europe and spain (Liberals and Moronic Socialists and Leftist scum) they will bow.

Good thing the Yanks and the Brits have there head screwed on as is they pulled out Iraq would fall into the Abyss of mayhem....