The sickening hypocrisy of Sinn Féin.

Originally posted by irish1
laugh away, I'm saying there is no proof and without that it is wrong to accuse.

Thats true in relation to the funds issue, it all has to be declared now , when and where etc.
But in relation to what John O' donohoe said this morning, on RTÉ was he lying?
Of course he was probably referring to the situation when he was minister.
Prominent members of SF wouldn't be active members of the IRA any more.
They wouldn't be that stupid would they

Villain

Originally posted by Earthman
Thats true in relation to the funds issue, it all has to be declared now , when and where etc.

Thank you

Originally posted by Earthman

But in relation to what John O' donohoe said this morning, on RTÉ was he lying?
Of course he was probably referring to the situation when he was minister.
Prominent members of SF wouldn't be active members of the IRA any more.
They wouldn't be that stupid would they

Well he still didn't name names, I'm guessing the reason no-one will name names is beacuse they can't prove it. I could be wrong but thats how I figure it

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by irish1
Disagree 100%, is there any proof that this racketeering which includes "extortion, protection, smuggling, tax scams and so on" is providing money to Sinn Fein??

I would imagine they'd list such money in their books as having come from an "Anonymous Donation" or something similar rather than "What the boys got from threatening to knee cap yer man who owns the chip shop"

Villain

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
I would imagine they'd list such money in their books as having come from an "Anonymous Donation" or something similar rather than "What the boys got from threatening to knee cap yer man who owns the chip shop"

So thats your proof is it

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by irish1
So thats your proof is it

I didn't suggest it was proof, I'm just saying they'll hardly announce the fact that some of their funding comes from illegal activities.
Which I'm sure it does not, of course

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
I didn't suggest it was proof, I'm just saying they'll hardly announce the fact that some of their funding comes from illegal activities.
Which I'm sure it does not, of course

fair enough, just wanted to make sure you weren't saying it does:D

Villain

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
Commission members are: Richard Kerr, a former deputy director of the CIA; Commander John Grieve, former head of the Metropolitan Police’s anti- terrorist squad; Lord John Alderdice, the former Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Joe Brosnan, a former senior civil service in the South

ha ha.

Next on how to dupe the masses...... An unbiased commision Based on the current Iraq situation Members are..
Condoleezza Rice :Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs


You get the picture.....

lol:p

Mighty_Mouse

was that SF want to furthur the perception that they are the bastions of progress in the north, without regard to their criminal links with the IRA

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I've never heard SF disregard their links with IRA other than to say they dont speak for them, dont control them etc etc

Thier party coffers hold more than any other party in this state

Is this information available anywhere?

Some of these funds do come from political donations, particularly from the states (which IIRC is estimated at €1m yearly

Is there a link.My google aint returning much

but also comes from the spoils of IRA racketeering. This racketeering includes extortion, protection, smuggling, tax scams and so on.

you forgot to write "IMO" before this:p
I don't believe the IRA are financing SF.

So you are saying no IRA funds have made their way to Sinn Féin

yes

Prominent members of SF wouldn't be active members of the IRA any more.

I agree. It would make sense politically

have heard that there is a new generation coming up in the leadership of the PIRA.Apparently the Gardai nabbed a couple of them cutting a deal with some drug barons in Dublin

a link would be helpful. I doubt it or we would of heard more about it. Do you not think that a month before the elections this would be big news

But in relation to what John O' donohoe said this morning, on RTÉ was he lying?

hardly an election coming is there?

I would imagine they'd list such money in their books as having come from an "Anonymous Donation" or something similar rather than "What the boys got from threatening to knee cap yer man who owns the chip shop"

again I doubt it. Doesnt make sense politicaly. Not worth the risk.

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
hardly an election coming is there?

I Know but like after those elections, will it be in order to say the same after all there will be a general election coming up in a year or two.
Politicians come up with the new stories and agenda's.
If you are on the receiving end of bad press, it should make you move mountains to remove the causes of that bad press.
Then we can start looking at policies and and policies alone .

Villain

Originally posted by Earthman
I Know but like after those elections, will it be in order to say the same after all there will be a general election coming up in a year or two.
Politicians come up with the new stories and agenda's.
If you are on the receiving end of bad press, it should make you move mountains to remove the causes of that bad press.
Then we can start looking at policies and and policies alone .

Thats almost impossible.

I believe Gerry Adams is looking to meet Bertie and Tony to discuss this issue.

He was alos present in the VIP section of the Dail this morning.

Cork

Originally posted by irish1


I also believe that the report states most of the illegal activity being carried out in the north is by loyalists.

So, why be tribal about criminal activity?

Criminal activity is Criminal activity.

Sinn Féin and the IRA have been inextricably linked.

The IRA is involved in criminal activity?

What does this make SF?

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
What does this make SF?

A political party which is using democratic means to try and develop the peace process!:D

Cork

The IRA is involved in criminal activity

Does SF even see this as a problem?

Forget about any common members that both organisations share - as it does nothing but muddy the waters that something has to be done to rid this country of the likes of the IRA.

What 10 point plans has SF for this?

monument

@ 18:26

Originally posted by Cork
The IRA is involved in criminal activity?

@ 19:16

Originally posted by Cork
The IRA is involved in criminal activity

A half arsed question to a statement of fact. What happened there? Strange.

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Yes Sinn Fein are terrorists. Why do people in the republic of ireland vote for them?

Could you do something about your English? All I can make out of “Sinn Fein are terrorists” is that every member of SF is a terrorist. At worst Sinn Fein has links to terrorist. A statement like “Yes Sinn Fein are terrorists” makes it sound like you tell the subeditors of Irish tabloids (incl. the Indo) what to submit as headlines. Anyway…

Yes, this country came out the work of terrorists. Why do you all not want Ireland to be a part of the UK?

Cork

Originally posted by monument

makes it sound like you tell the subeditors of Irish tabloids (incl. the Indo) what to submit as headlines. Anyway…

Yes, this country came out the work of terrorists. Why do you all not want Ireland to be a part of the UK?

SF/IRA now accept the consent principle. So, why just not decommission illegal weapons? Does SF/IRA not want to win the unionists over?

Why single out Independant Newspapers? How many copies does An Phodlact actually sell?

Where the men + women of the 1916 rising involved in rackeering, smuggling or planting bombs in trash cans?

Mighty_Mouse

Originally posted by Cork
SF/IRA now accept the consent principle. So, why just not decommission illegal weapons? Does SF/IRA not want to win the unionists over?

Where the men + women of the 1916 rising involved in rackeering, smuggling or planting bombs in trash cans?

we have been over this Cork. Give your proposals for a more "workable" decommissioning process. Answer the question of whether decomissioning can ever be absolute and if not whats the point?

Im sure the IRA 1916 did whatever it could to raise money and yes they were terrorists also

Cork

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse


Im sure the IRA 1916 did whatever it could to raise money and yes they were terrorists also

Who are what is the IRA involved in criminal activity for?

Costing the Irish Exchequer tax revenue that could be used in education, social welfare or health.

What use is the IRA putting these resources to?

why this criminality is happening?

I surpose they maintain they are maintaining their private army. But as a democrat - this state has but one army (and it is not the likes of the IRA).

Mighty_Mouse

:rolleyes: Unlike you to avoid a discussion and persist in repetitive rants Cork. Will we ever get an original thought from you? (I'd settle for a response to the questions directed at you.)

Who are what is the IRA involved in criminal activity for?

What criminality? I haven't seen any figures for IRA specific racketeering. I’ve only seen punishment beatings (linked to policing issue) or a general 'republican' criminality estimates (which includes the real-IRA).

Do we have any independent estimates? I don't think that the IRA is involved in fund-raising activities in any significant manner. But I’m only guessing here.

What use is the IRA putting these resources to?

See above. Because they don’t have the same need for resources they don’t have the same need for fundraising IMO.
(I’m really open to seeing a few reliable figures, reports estimates etc here because I'm genuinely interested myself to know)

Mighty_Mouse

What 10 point plans has SF for this?

Does it have to be 10 points !!!
I would assume it goes along the lines of:
1. Get a permanent functioning democratic government in NI. A situation needs to be created where British rule is not an option in crisis.
2. Completely demilitarise NI
3. Get workable policing reform
4. Full implementation of the GFA by Irish and British governments including the release of prisoners
5. Cease-fire of other loyalist terrorists organisations
6. Right of MEPs to sit in the Dail


Im sure the above would go a long-way to creating a situation where IRA could be disbanded in return for the long-term peacful democratic goverment in NI. But I dont see the IRA disbanding into a situation where SF dont even have a right to democratically represent themselves.

Mighty_Mouse

Why single out Independant Newspapers?

I've just heard an advertisement for tommorrows "Indo" describing a story about "provo" Gerry Adams.

Surely thats borderline slander? Anyways a small example of why nobody has much time for the Indo. They take artistic licence with their facts all the time.

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I've just heard an advertisement for tommorrows indo describing a story about "provp" Gerry Adams.

Surely thats borderline slander?

Then he should sue

Anyways a small example of why nobody has much time for the Indo. They take artistic licence with their facts all the time.

Is it not he biggest selling daily and sunday newspaper??
Average ABC readership for the sunday independent in 2003 was one million
Thats hardly an indication of people not having much time for it.
Combine it with its sister tabloid the sunday world which has an equally harsh line on the IRA and you are talking about a readership of over half the population!
Source

monument

Originally posted by Cork
Why single out Independant Newspapers?

makes it sound like you tell the subeditors of Irish tabloids (incl. the Indo) what to submit as headlines. Anyway…

Because the Indo is sensationalist, by most respects a tabloid. That's why I said 'incl. the Indo'. I wasn’t singling them out, just bunching them with the red tops; at the least they're really making headway in that direction.

Cork

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse

Im sure the above would go a long-way to creating a situation where IRA could be disbanded in return for the long-term peacful democratic goverment in NI. But I dont see the IRA disbanding into a situation where SF dont even have a right to democratically represent themselves.

Since SF will probably be now held to account for their actions of the IRA - SF will have some hard choices to make. In fairness, the British Government released prisoners but the IRA still exists holding on to weapons and being involved in criminal activity.

I haven't seen any figures for IRA specific racketeering. I’ve only seen punishment beatings (linked to policing issue) or a general 'republican' criminality estimates (which includes the real-IRA).

Beating the pulp out of people with baseball bats has nothing to do with policing or republicanisim. It is further examples of IRA activity that has no place in democratic society.

Mighty_Mouse

Combine it with its sister tabloid the sunday world which has an equally harsh line on the IRA and you are talking about a readership of over half the population

Forget about the IRA for a moment. Do you take any newstory in the Indo as reliable? Most people I know would take anything they write with a pinch of salt.
FHM sells a lot too; does this make it a trustworthy source of journalism? Just because married men want to have look at naked women without being persecuted for it at home doesn’t make the Sunday World anymore reliable.

Since SF will probably be now held to account for their actions of the IRA - SF will have some hard choices to make

Your usual bland statements Cork. What choices? In relation to the release of prisoners there is still a lot more to be done : http://sinnfein.ie/peace/document/27/1
Both governments have not yet implemented the GFA in full

the IRA still exists holding on to weapons and being involved in criminal activity

Do you have a better solution for decommissioning?
What criminal activity?Is there "any" figures?Do figures for criminal activity involve punishment beatings? Do the figures invlove all republican activity (real-IRA)?Do you accept that will little or no information on republican criminality we can't discuss how much is happening?

Beating the pulp out of people with baseball bats has nothing to do with policing or republicanisim

Whether you like it or not; it does

It is further examples of IRA activity that has no place in democratic society.

I agree and the only way to stop it is to set up a democracy.Need for a democratic government, domocratic policing reform, democratic investigations to government terrorism etc etc

mneylon

http://www.dannymorrison.ie/articles/spiesandspoofers.php pretty much sums it up.

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Forget about the IRA for a moment. Do you take any newstory in the Indo as reliable? Most people I know would take anything they write with a pinch of salt.
FHM sells a lot too; does this make it a trustworthy source of journalism? Just because married men want to have look at naked women without being persecuted for it at home doesn’t make the Sunday World anymore reliable.

Ah come on mighty mouse, the sunday indo and the sunday world would have nearly 2 million readers every week between them, thats half the population.
If they had as much contempt for them as you say, surely they wouldn't buy them.
They are both fiercly anti Rah papers and are generally very critical of Sinn Féin.
Thats half the country reading papers on a sunday with that type of editorial line.
And actually it's more than half its probably nearer to three quarters because the ABC measurement is for adults, ie those eligible to vote.
The countries 4 million population would include a lot of children.
How many does FHM sell?
( tiz a great read though )

Mighty_Mouse

Ah come on mighty mouse, the sunday indo and the sunday world would have nearly 2 million readers every week between them, thats half the population.

What your saying is these papers are credible because they sell a lot. They're not and even the people that buy them dont consider them credible. its just an easy sensationalist read.

mneylon

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
What your saying is these papers are credible because they sell a lot. They're not and even the people that buy them dont consider them credible. its just an easy sensationalist read.

Most people seem to buy the tabloids for the sports' pages anyway, so go figure.

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
What your saying is these papers are credible because they sell a lot. They're not and even the people that buy them dont consider them credible. its just an easy sensationalist read.

Thats a very sweeping statement to make about close to three quarters of the adults in the country.
Have you any credible evidence to back it up?