The sickening hypocrisy of Sinn Féin.

The Brigadier

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Yes Sinn Fein are terrorists. Why do people in the republic of ireland vote for them?

No they are not, but they are hate mongers with a chip on their shoulders.

However a significant proportion, certainly higher than average support the IRA and other terrorist organisations.

monument

Originally posted by James Melody
No they are not, but they are hate mongers with a chip on their shoulders.

Some are, just like some members of FF, FG, PDs, and Labour, are. What's your point?

Originally posted by James Melody
However a significant proportion, certainly higher than average support the IRA and other terrorist organisations.

That's nothing new. So, once again, what's your point?

The Brigadier

Well I thought my point was rather simple to make out.

TheJollyrodger made the point that Sinn Fein were terrorists. I simply disagreed.

I can post using simpler English for you from now on if you would like?

Villain

Originally posted by James Melody
Well I thought my point was rather simple to make out.

TheJollyrodger made the point that Sinn Fein were terrorists. I simply disagreed.

I can post using simpler English for you from now on if you would like?

To be fair James, you went on to say

but they are hate mongers with a chip on their shoulders.

and

However a significant proportion, certainly higher than average support the IRA and other terrorist organisations

You didn't just disagree with thejollyrodger

Originally posted by monument
What article has any Independent Media publication published that SF would have a possible case to sue?

Well the Sunday Indo main story from a few weeks back would be one.
If I remember correctly it said something along the lines of Gerry Adams being on the ruling counsel of the IRA using un named sources.

Cork

Originally posted by James Melody
No they are not, but they are hate mongers with a chip on their shoulders.

However a significant proportion, certainly higher than average support the IRA and other terrorist organisations.

hate mongers

is very strong. There are incitement to hatred laws in this country so hate mongering won't be tolerated.

I don't think Irish people are so fond of IRA criminal activity such as smuggling that is costing the Irish exchequer funds.

But I suspect they will get an anti government vote before FG or Labour.

Labours "Baby Bond" did them absolutely no favours.

with a chip on their shoulders

SF/IRA do need to move on. The future of NI is in the hands of those who live in NI.

Maintaining an illegal army won't win them any trusts by the unionist peoples of this island.

Maintaining an illegal army will only halt the building of trust in NI.

The Brigadier

I stand by my opinion that Sinn Fein like the Paisley mob are hate mongers.

Oh and irish1 you are on my ignore list, but I can probably guess what you had to say for yourself.

Villain

Originally posted by James Melody
Oh and irish1 you are on my ignore list, but I can probably guess what you had to say for yourself.

lol I wondered why he couldn't argue my points in the debate.:D

Cork

Originally posted by James Melody
I stand by my opinion that Sinn Fein like the Paisley mob are hate mongers.

Taking hardline stances won't do anything for the peace process.

SF have now met their match with the DUP.

The electorate in NI decided to vote for hardliners over the linkes of the OUP and SDLP.

Voting for hardliners has left the Peace Process in stalemate with the IRA still roaming the streets.

The Brigadier

The SF/DUP groups are hardliners, and also hatemongers. I don't agree that recognising them as such constitutes a hardline stance.

monument

That's nice of you to have such an enlightened opinion.

The Brigadier

Thank you very much. Nice to see you understood that one.

monument

Originally posted by Earthman
Well the Sunday Indo main story from a few weeks back would be one.
If I remember correctly it said something along the lines of Gerry Adams being on the ruling counsel of the IRA using un named sources.

Did it go something like "according to so and so"? Because that’s reporting what somebody has said, it is not reporting what the newspaper sees as fact.

Cork

Did it go something like "according to so and so"? Because that’s reporting what somebody has said, it is not reporting what the newspaper sees as fact.

Intelligence reports?
IMC Reports?

Are leading members of SF high ranking members of the IRA?

If they are not - let them sue & clear their names.

monument

Originally posted by Cork
If they are not - let them sue & clear their names.

Sue who for what?

Cork

The IRA is now a problem.

How can u expect to win the Unionists trust with the IRA still in existance.

Why are the IRA still smuggling and rackeering?

In a democratic socierty - the IRA are redundant.


Their existance is now a problem that has to be faced up to.

Villain

The Loyalists groups are now a problem.

How can u expect to win the Nationlists trust with the Loyalists still in existance.

Why are the Loyalists groups involved in criminal activity in the North?

In a democratic socierty - these groups are redundant.


Their existance is now a problem that has to be faced up to.

sceptre

Originally posted by monument
Did it go something like "according to so and so"? Because that’s reporting what somebody has said, it is not reporting what the newspaper sees as fact.

That's not a get out of jail free card for any Irish or UK newspaper. Broadly speaking, repeating libel is libellous.

Any chance of shutting Cork's repetitive posts up by justifying racketeering or something? I'm willing to help.

Mighty_Mouse

Cork, your a bit like one of those dolls that once is winded up...................or am I thinking of Paisley!:eek:

"The IRA is now a problem."
Yes

"How can u expect to win the Unionists trust with the IRA still in existance."
In the long term I dont expect they will be.


"Why are the IRA still smuggling and rackeering?"
I have absolutely no information about this. At the end of the day every report I've read has lumped all republicans together - continuity/real - IRA

"In a democratic socierty - the IRA are redundant."
Yes. Hopefully we'll have a democracy soon so

"Their existance is now a problem that has to be faced up to"
I think it has and is. Significant moves by IRA etc etc .
At the end of the day all that is required to bring the IRA and republican hardliners within the IRA towards disbandment if the implementation of the GFA. Is that so hard!!!

cruiserweight

Originally posted by Cork
The IRA is now a problem.

How can u expect to win the Unionists trust with the IRA still in existance.

Why are the IRA still smuggling and rackeering?

In a democratic socierty - the IRA are redundant.


Their existance is now a problem that has to be faced up to.

Originally posted by irish1
The Loyalists groups are now a problem.

How can u expect to win the Nationlists trust with the Loyalists still in existance.

Why are the Loyalists groups involved in criminal activity in the North?

In a democratic socierty - these groups are redundant.


Their existance is now a problem that has to be faced up to.

Both are a problem, two wrongs don't make a right and terrorist groups on either side hinder the process.

Irish1 I assume you meant Loyalist terrorist groups and not just Loyalists as a group!

Villain

Originally posted by cruiserweight
Both are a problem, two wrongs don't make a right and terrorist groups on either side hinder the process.

Irish1 I assume you meant Loyalist terrorist groups and not just Loyalists as a group!

Yea sorry I meant Loyalist terrorist groups, I wasn't trying to say that 2 wrongs make a right, but it's just we only ever hear 1 side being bashed here, I was simply trying to state that there are 2 sides involved.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
Yea sorry I meant Loyalist terrorist groups, I wasn't trying to say that 2 wrongs make a right, but it's just we only ever hear 1 side being bashed here, I was simply trying to state that there are 2 sides involved.

If you were a supporter of the PUP/UDA/loyalist-terrorists-whatever, then I, personally, would be bashing your side just as much as I do now. To be honest, I don't see much difference between you & and your fellow Sinn Féin supporters and those that support the equivalent on the Loyalist side.

BuffyBot

but it's just we only ever hear 1 side being bashed here

Not quite. There have been a lot of posts in various threads acknowledging the activities of Loyalist groups and/or both sides are as bad as each other.

Mighty_Mouse

There have been a lot of posts in various threads acknowledging the activities of Loyalist groups and/or both sides are as bad as each other.

I guessing about 2% of all terrorists related posts and usually just as a passing comment.

To be honest, I don't see much difference between you & and your fellow Sinn Féin supporters and those that support the equivalent on the Loyalist side.

Thats a pity. IMO the difference is quite large.

The Brigadier

Both sides are as bad as each other.

The main reason that there is more Sinn Fein bashing here than Loyalist bashing is down to demographics.

You don't have Loyalist supporters down here jumping to the defence of any comment made about the DUP.

The actions of the IRA, of which Sinn Fein do not condemn are abhorent to normal people. Those that don't condemn these actions, such as Sinn Fein are logically quite opposed to the values held by most people on these boards.

pork99

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I guessing about 2% of all terrorists related posts and usually just as a passing comment.

Thats a pity. IMO the difference is quite large.

No it's not

(Hi me again!)

You know, I spotted a copy of last Sundays Sunday world which has a huge centre spread article entitled Sinn Féin the Big Lie
How the provo's political wing is filling its coffers with the proceeds of crime.

The article is by Paul Williams who as you know is a well respected crime writer instrumental in revealing the story behind the Veronica Guerin murder amongst other things.
It says and I quote:

The working class socialists of the republican movement won't tell you how they have funded the scores of holiday homes they have bought both in Ireland and abroad

It goes on to say:

Today the provo's and Sinn Féin cannot afford to put drug dealers out of business because they are actually living off the proceeds of these rackets. One of the benefactors is the country's best known drug baron,Martin"the viper" foley who by his own admission is paying off the provo's for the past few years rather than suffer the same fate as his best mate Seamus "shavo" Hogan who was murdered three years ago.

It repeatedly accuses Adams of being a liar.
Now if ever there was a recipe for a law suit, theres one.

monument

Originally posted by Earthman
You know, I spotted a copy of last Sundays Sunday world which has a huge centre spread article entitled Sinn Féin the Big Lie
How the provo's political wing is filling its coffers with the proceeds of crime.

The article is by Paul Williams who as you know is a well respected crime writer instrumental in revealing the story behind the Veronica Guerin murder amongst other things.
It says and I quote:
It goes on to say:
It repeatedly accuses Adams of being a liar.
Now if ever there was a recipe for a law suit, theres one.

The Sunday World. Good stuff.

I’d be worried Adams even razed an eyebrow over an article which repeatedly accuses him of being a liar.

Some things are best read with a bucket of salt. But so we can be far, would there be any chance that we could see the full text of the artical?

Mighty_Mouse

Those that don't condemn these actions, such as Sinn Fein are logically quite opposed to the values held by most people on these boards.

Doesnt mean they're wrong.
Ps
A little secret the reason SF won't condem the IRA is because they agreed with the armed struggle at the time. But republicans have accepted that the armed struggle is over and the political struggle is the only way forward. Looking for condemnations after the end of the war is a little retrospective.

Is that Earthman I see quoting the Sunday World as a reliable source again. :eek:
He must DEFINITELY work for them.

I've only briefly glanced at what Earthman has said and I havn't seen last weeks Sunday World.

Let me say the SF is primarily a working class party. Its politicians are all working class etc. I don't think they even accept their full salaries (goes to the party to be distributed - socialism). So none of them has made any money from politics, unlike the rest of the political parties in Ireland.

This means two things:
1) they're not motivated by money
2) the only few bob extra they have is from stuff outside of SF eg Gerrys books

Definitely holiday homes around the world is not the norm. In fact I'd be surprised if there were any. But if they were, then they would be bought with money raised in that persons private life.

As for the IRA and drugs. My understanding is that it's a complete no no. "poisoning Irelands youth .............and all that lark". Have you read Howard Marks, Mr. Nice where the IRA contact he used for importing hash to Ireland was afraid of his absolute **** of getting found out by the IRA cause he would be shot!!!
So to the best of my knowledge the IRA and drugs don't mix. Also not that "The Viper" is a very good source of information but if he is paying the IRA to protect him then they're not really doing a good job.
But again can I say that I don't believe the IRA is involved in criminality in any significant manner nowadays because they don't have any motivation to be. They have nothing to fund.

Also from my understanding of the organisation (cells which dont know superior command etc )any criminality which does happen is probably not authorised.
I know the answers to this post already but the point here is that the IRA is an orgaisation moving from full-scale war and terrorism towards disbandment. Any such move can only happen over time and with problems in bringing hardliners with the process.

PS
Can I ask. When he says the republican movement. Does he mean IRA/Real Ira/Continuity?
Does he say who owns the homes?

mike65

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
.

Let me say the SF is primarily a working class party. Its politicians are all working class etc. I don't think they even accept their full salaries (goes to the party to be distributed - socialism). So none of them has made any money from politics, unlike the rest of the political parties in Ireland.

This means two things:
1) they're not motivated by money
2) the only few bob extra they have is from stuff outside of SF eg Gerrys books

Definitely holiday homes around the world is not the norm. In fact I'd be surprised if there were any. But if they were, then they would be bought with money raised in that persons private life.

MM your (I presume youthful) naivety is hilarious and abit worrying as I'm sure your not alone. The top Provos are "comfortable". Gerry Adams has a house, on the coast near Buncrana.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2002/03/29/story316872.asp

From http://lark.phoblacht.net/belfastgranny.html (disident provo site)

Now as for Adams, is he a money grabber. Well he came from the back streets of Ballymurphy to now reside in Norfolk on the Glen Road. At today's market prices his house in Norfolk would cost at least £105,000 if you are lucky. Small change for Gerry. His house in Donegal is not a wee place in Donegal, it's of a fairly grand scale and would cost much more than his house in Norfolk ever would. There is no doubt that the fortunes of the Adams family have greatly improved since Gerry has been broadcasting his Republican credentials all over America. To me this fella has been bought.

Mike.