Mardecai vannunu released !

Big Ears

well this man has spent more years in jail than i have on earth but what do yee think of the man who told about israels nucleur programme ? .

In my opinion he is a hero and was right to do what he did . He has suffered long and hard and he deserves to be let leave israel. But he will not be given a passport for one year and there are a lot of people that would like him dead .

shotamoose

In another example of the respect for human rights for which the Israeli state has become justly famous, he "is not allowed to have a passport, is forbidden to approach ports and airports, and has been told not to talk to foreigners without permission".

If I was him I'd try to get out of there as soon as possible any way I could.

daveirl

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emertoff

His treatment was/is an absolute disgrace and yet another example of the failed entity, the undemocratic sham that is Israel. IMO, the best way to isolate them would be an international sporting and cultural ban. This achieved a lot in bringing South Africa out of apartheid in the 80's because Mandela would still be rotting in jail today if it had been left to Thatcher and Reagan. Only thing is, Israel is s.hit at sports.

Sand

Good to see hes out. They did a Sky News piece this morning where they were walking around the town where Israels WMD is supposedly based asking the locals about the Israeli nuke program - they all smiled and said they wouldnt talk about it, as it was a matter of national security. It just illustrates how seriously Israelis take their defence when surrounded by hostile nations, and perhaps the seriousness with which they viewed the breach of that national security.

On the other hand it could be argued he did Israel a favour. Nukes have no deterrence value if no one knows you have them.

Mercury_Tilt

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DadaKopf

Did anyone read his letters in today's Guardian G2 section? The guy's a champ.

But maybe also a dead man.

In another example of the respect for human rights for which the Israeli state has become justly famous, he "is not allowed to have a passport, is forbidden to approach ports and airports, and has been told not to talk to foreigners without permission".

Guys, despite Israel's treatment of him in prison, he did commit treason to his nation. Regardless of whether you believe he was right to release information on Israel's Nuclear programme, he released state secrets. If he had done the same in most other countries he would have been shot.

Hobbes

On the other hand the said country did in fact lie to a UN nuclear commission stating that it didn't have nuclear weapons, and went so far as to build a fake control room to pretend they were not producing weapons at all.

Wasn't supposed lying to UN inspectors the whole basis for a recent war?

He is also far from free. Palistinians have more freedoms then he does.

On the other hand the said country did in fact lie to a UN nuclear commission stating that it didn't have nuclear weapons, and went so far as to build a fake control room to pretend they were not producing weapons at all.

I can't really see lying to the UN as being that much of a big deal anymore. If the Coalition can blatantly ignore the UN, then lying to them isn't really that big a thing.

I can't say i blame the Israeli's though. The only reason other nations are not allowed to have a nuclear programme is to allow the major nations retain their strategic advantage. Hell, nobody has said much to Bush's pet project of a bunker buster nuke.

bonkey

Originally posted by klaz
Regardless of whether you believe he was right to release information on Israel's Nuclear programme, he released state secrets.

This is something I'm trying to figure out.....and I'm pretty sure its a gap in my understanding, so maybe someone could correct me when I go wrong...

Israel has never admitted to having a nuclear program. Any time CNN reference it, they're always careful to call it Israel's "alleged nuclear program/capability".

Now, if thats the case, how could the imprison someone for releasing state secrets without admitting that what he released is based on fact.

I'm also curious...if Israel still hasn't formally declared its nuclar capability....how will it be affected by the changes Bush proposed to the IAEA's working methods and how it will react to nations who are not entirely honest with their nuclear campaigns???

My guess is, unless I'm wrong and Israel has already declared all of its stuff, that a special case will be made for Israel, on the insistence of the US, with anyone objecting being labelled as anti-Semitic. But maybe I'm just a cynic.

jc

Hobbes

So if lying is ok, then why invade iraq then? Or is it that lying to some people is ok and to others it isn't?

This is something I'm trying to figure out.....and I'm pretty sure its a gap in my understanding, so maybe someone could correct me when I go wrong...

Bonkey, the way i look at this is like the US's NSA secrets. Technically the areas covered under the NSA's brief aren't that secret, however in the past they've objected rather forcebly to certain information being published. Rather than being a secret, its sensitive. Which means its really "Top Secret". lol

If I've confused you further I'm sorry

So if lying is ok, then why invade iraq then? Or is it that lying to some people is ok and to others it isn't?

Re: the lying part, of course it is.... Thats the way International Politics work isn't it?

bonkey

Originally posted by klaz
If I've confused you further I'm sorry

You have, but its ok....I don't think I was that clear myself. Too much caffeine, not enough sleep...

What I meant is this...unless you are being set up for a sting, its virtually impossible to be nabbed for treason if you haven't given away state secrets.

In other words, if I released a document to the press tomorrow outlining the Irish Plans for World Domination using the Power of Boyzone, I'm not likely to be locked up for treason. Madness, possibly, but not treason.

So surely arresting and imprisoning Vannunu must have involved admitting that the information he released was actually genuine. If it wasn't genuine, it couldn't have been a State secret. But if it was genuine, then there can be no doubt about the Israeli nuclear program at least to that point.

jc

This could be an incorrect assumption but when he started working for the Israeli section, he probably signed a document like a Non-desclosure pact or something like that. Bit like the Official Secrets Act. Since Israel has considered itself a state under war for the last few decades, he was probably pulled for treaon for breaking that agreement.

Hobbes

yea but if you believe your country is doing something wrong then what?

He gave up his citizenship when he released the documentation and was illegally I might add kidnapped in Rome and smuggled back to Israel to face trial.

Obviously because they wouldn't of gotten extradition considering he was pointing out the country was lying to the world.

yea but if you believe your country is doing something wrong then what?

Thats the question though. How far do you take this concept? Sure, if its in the case of experiments on humans, or crimes against humanity, your morals might cause you to break your oath to your country, and rightly so. However, in this case, he released information about Israel's nuclear programme. Their research wasn't actively harming anyone. He knew when he signed up for the job that he wasn't to release information about his work, and yet he did.

He gave up his citizenship when he released the documentation and was illegally I might add kidnapped in Rome and smuggled back to Israel to face trial.

So what? In their eyes he wa a crinimal. The US has in the past kidnapped those they deemed crinimals, and thats ok?

Obviously because they wouldn't of gotten extradition considering he was pointing out the country was lying to the world.

Regardless of the info he released, he commited and was convicted of a crime by the Israeli Judicial courts. Anyone that commits treason should be punished. Its as simple as that. What did his information achieve in the end? More suspicion between israel and the world...