Hard shoulder and fast drivers

DukeDredd

I realise this has been a problem fro a long time but since the penalty points have come in it's really getting to me. This morning driving into work i was travelling along nicely at about 60-65Mph and an @sshole comes up behind me, tailgates and flashes lights and expects me to move into the hard shoulder to let him go - i think not! I'm trying to be a good boy on the road since the penalty points and since then these @rsewipes seem to be everywhere. Whats worse is when they eventually overtake they don't seem to make any progress in front of me, they slow to the speed limit!! Anyone else encountering these f-ing monkeys on the road?

silverside

haha

you are about to reopen the perennial debate on boards motors

i'm staying out of it this time!

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by DukeDredd
I realise this has been a problem fro a long time but since the penalty points have come in it's really getting to me. This morning driving into work i was travelling along nicely at about 60-65Mph and an @sshole comes up behind me, tailgates and flashes lights and expects me to move into the hard shoulder to let him go - i think not! I'm trying to be a good boy on the road since the penalty points and since then these @rsewipes seem to be everywhere. Whats worse is when they eventually overtake they don't seem to make any progress in front of me, they slow to the speed limit!! Anyone else encountering these f-ing monkeys on the road?

May I remind you that the rules of the road state that you must move to the left to allow faster traffic to pass.

robo

Have to agree with you also DukeDredd, I find the same, this doesn't just happen on the dual carriageways but yep on normal roads where you have to pull over to the grass almost!!! Bloody head wrecking.

Bond 007 - yes that is what the rules say, but when someone is on your ass as you are driving at around 60mph or whatever the maximum speed is in an area, that is annoying, it happens a lot along roads that are 40mph in the country, that just makes my blood boil!!! :mad:

seamus

Originally posted by Bond-007
May I remind you that the rules of the road state that you must move to the left to allow faster traffic to pass.

Only on two-lane carriageways.

DukeDredd

May I remind you that the rules of the road state that you must move to the left to allow faster traffic to pass.

Not so when it's a national route with only one lane in either direction. Hard Shoulders are completely different stories to Slow & Overtaking lanes.

Korg

May I remind you that the rules of the road state that you must move to the left to allow faster traffic to pass.

It also says in the rules of the road:

"No vehicle other than exempted vehicles (fire brigades, ambulances, Garda cars) may exceed the maximum road speed limit at any time"

seamus

Originally posted by Korg
It also says in the rules of the road:

"No vehicle other than exempted vehicles (fire brigades, ambulances, Garda cars) may exceed the maximum road speed limit at any time"

Here is the bone of contention. It is nobody's responsibility to police other drivers except the Gardai.
The rules of the road, clearly state that on a two-lane carraigway, you must move to the left-hand lane if a vehicle approaching from behind wishes to overtake. That's it. All each driver should do is ensure that he is following the rules of the road, and leave everyone else to their own devices.

Korg

The rules of the road, clearly state that on a two-lane carraigway, you must move to the left-hand lane if a vehicle approaching from behind wishes to overtake

I agree there, if you're doing 60 in the overtaking lane on the m50 etc. However in this thread's context the original poster was being "forced" into the hard sholder, apparently on a single lane road.

DukeDredd

Here is the bone of contention. It is nobody's responsibility to police other drivers except the Gardai.

Agreed - but the original post here is not about motorways - should have made that clearer, sorry. I refuse always to pull into the hard shoulder when i am doing the legal speed limit and some muppet behind me wants to do 70-80mph and thinks he gets priority on the road so proceeds to flash lights, tailgate and make hand gestures to get me to move aside. I'm amazed at the amount of people that pull over into a hard shoulder doing 60mph, to leave some ignorant muppet pass which is a highly dangerous thing to do, even more so at night. Ever seen people in the hard shoulder doing around 60 and suddenly a tractor/moped/pedestrian appears up ahead - they're faced with the task of trying to get back into the flow of traffic before they hit something making they're driving experience alot more difficult while muppet doing 70-80 coasts home...

Seth Brundle

Although I agree that you are not obliged to allow them past but if there is a straight stretch ahead with no oncoming traffic I would pull over just to see the back of them. I would rather pass by their crashed wreck rather than be a part of it!

seamus

Originally posted by Korg
I agree there, if you're doing 60 in the overtaking lane on the m50 etc. However in this thread's context the original poster was being "forced" into the hard sholder, apparently on a single lane road.

He doesn't have to move over, but he's still required to show the same consideration and submissiveness (i.e. not speed up, not drive on the white), even though this other guy was being a complete moron.

I agree with DukeDredd, I'd never ever drive in the hard shoulder, unless I had some sort of vehicle fault, and then I'd drive very slowly (<30mph). The urge to be as unco-operative and annoying as you can to the ignorant muppet behind you is a hard one to deny.

leonotron

If they flash their lights just slow down a bit more. Wreck their heads a bit.

por

DukeDredd
The guy doing 70mph and flashing their light are @sshol*s as you say, the best way to get rid of them is to just touch your bake pedal enough to put the brake lights on (do not even slow down the car) and you should notice that 90% of the time they will back off, if that fails roll down the window and give them the finger. They will pass you out in their own good time. I don’t see why someone should move into the hard shoulder at 60-65mph cos some guy behind them doing 70 wants them to.

Sleipnir

yeah it's up to you if you want to pull over into the hard shoulder, you don't have to although I believe many people don't know this. it's not a slow lane and should only be used in an emergency.
They're the ones doing the overtaking so let them take all the risks.

spockety

If you could buy a sign that fit across the bottom of your backwindow which lights up the words "BACK OFF MOTHER****ER", I'd buy one.

J.

Dave

Or "DIM YOUR LIGHTS YOU MUPPET" I hate when people are on fulls behind me and there's nothing I can do.

seamus

Originally posted by Dave
Or "DIM YOUR LIGHTS YOU MUPPET" I hate when people are on fulls behind me and there's nothing I can do.

A guy I know who works as a car salesman was told by the rep for (insert huge German car manufacturer here) to drive around everywhere with full beams and full fogs. 'Gives the car more presence on the road' apparently.

:mad:

Eurorunner

It is nobody's responsibility to police other drivers except the Gardai.

Too True. There are too many ppl setting themselves up as amateur enforcers...or is it just begrudgery?

Yes, driving on the hard shoulder is against the laws of the land but there are occassions when on a straight stretch of road with good visibility, its clearly safe to let someone pass. So long as its safe to do so, i let them pass. Its not my concern if their speeding - thats their choice and good luck to them.

Now what about the muppets who actually speed up when you overtake - making what was a safe overtaking manouevre deadly dangerous?
And the white line merchants - sticking to the white line cos they know that you want to overtake and it seems will do all they can to keep you behind them?

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by Eurorunner
there are occassions when on a straight stretch of road with good visibility, its clearly safe to let someone pass.

the hard shoulder can contain debris thrown from the road, like glass, nails, etc. so don't assume it is safe to drive on it.

shoegirl

Those who refuse to move into the hard shoulder are perfectly right not to.

If somebody wants to overtake a vehicle thats already at or above the speed limit, hand signs, tailgating etc doesn't exonerate them. They have no right to do that.

Having said that many of these hard shoulders are simply a waste of road space. The roads authority is planning to convert many of them into proper driving lanes. However this would be at the expense of more vulnerable road users - pedestians, cyclists, and slow vehicles. But at least it would give an extra lane.

The fact is that speeding is against the law, and bullying other drivers while speeding is just plain arrogance and stupidity.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by shoegirl
Those who refuse to move into the hard shoulder are perfectly right not to.

If somebody wants to overtake a vehicle thats already at or above the speed limit, hand signs, tailgating etc doesn't exonerate them. They have no right to do that.

Having said that many of these hard shoulders are simply a waste of road space. The roads authority is planning to convert many of them into proper driving lanes. However this would be at the expense of more vulnerable road users - pedestians, cyclists, and slow vehicles. But at least it would give an extra lane.

The fact is that speeding is against the law, and bullying other drivers while speeding is just plain arrogance and stupidity.

So it's acceptable for a lorry to plod along at 45mph and hold up traffic rather than to move over to the hard shoulder to allow them to pass?

the evil belly

i do a fair amount of driving between cork and dublin and one thing that pisses me off is people driving really slow right out on the white line who refuse to pull in a bit, i don't mean pulling onto a hard should even but just moving in a bit so i can see if there's an oncoming truck or something. i'll usually pull in to let someone pass, you never know the reason their in a rush, i couldn't make to to see someone before they died because i couldn't pass a car doing 35 in a 60 zone. also who am i to stop some fu(king idiot form killing himself by driving at some insane speed. i'd much prefer if he didn't take me out with him. it's also a pleasant surprise when someone pulls in to let you pass if their driving slow. i always make sure to give a flash of me hazard lights in acknowledgement

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by the evil belly
i do a fair amount of driving between cork and dublin and one thing that pisses me off is people driving really slow right out on the white line who refuse to pull in a bit, i don't mean pulling onto a hard should even but just moving in a bit so i can see if there's an oncoming truck or something. i'll usually pull in to let someone pass, you never know the reason their in a rush, i couldn't make to to see someone before they died because i couldn't pass a car doing 35 in a 60 zone. also who am i to stop some fu(king idiot form killing himself by driving at some insane speed. i'd much prefer if he didn't take me out with him. it's also a pleasant surprise when someone pulls in to let you pass if their driving slow. i always make sure to give a flash of me hazard lights in acknowledgement

You sir are indeed one of the few gentlemen left on our roads.

the evil belly

Originally posted by Bond-007
You sir are indeed one of the few gentlemen left on our roads.

cheers. it's on common courtesy though, don't cost me anything and is more likely to result in that person pulling in future when someone else wants to pass. makes perfect sense in my head at any rate

sceptre

Originally posted by Bond-007
So it's acceptable for a lorry to plod along at 45mph and hold up traffic rather than to move over to the hard shoulder to allow them to pass?

Legally yes. When I'm driving behind the truck and he pulls safely over on to the hard shoulder when I'm driving I'm thankful for it (and I acknowledge it). I never expect it.

I don't throw my car into the hard shoulder every time there's some idiot behind me. Actually I rarely do it if I'm driving at the speed limit (if I feel like going slower I'll do what I can). I will tend to make sure I'm at the left side of the lane though. All I expect is that the guy in front doesn't try to hog the entire road and prevent anyone from passing.

BrianD3

I sometimes drive a slowish vehicle (jeep + big trailer) and if I'm driving on a national primary route and it's safe to pull into the hard shoulder to let someone past then I'll do so. I'd only be doing 50 mph so I think it's fair enough to let people past me who want to travel at 60.

On the same road in my car, I'd be doing 60-65 mph (indicated) I always drive as close to the hard shoulder boundary line as possible anyway but I am reluctant to actually drive into the HS at 60 mph. Sometimes, I will do it but only if I think it's 100% safe and if the driver behind isn't being a prick about wanting to get by. There are many potential dangers in the hard shoulder - pedestrians, cyclists, debris, dead animals, people nosing out of side entrances etc. Why should I expose myself to these dangers just to facilitate the impatient idiot behind?

BTW I never, EVER venture into the HS at night using dipped headlights. That's suicidal in my opinion because you just can't see far enough ahead and could slam into an unsuspecting pedestrian or broken down car.

One thing I hate is: when you're doing 60 and someone (very often a Nordie reg) comes up behind you aggressively and sticks out their indicator as if to say "I want to get past, move over to the hard shoulder NOW" Even worse are those who flash headlights. On the other hand are people (very often elderly gits) who hog the white line doing 30 mph in a 60 and won't budge no matter how much traffic is building up behind them. So there is two sides to this.

I find Irish drivers are poor at overtaking safely and effectively anyway. Poor road markings and road design don't help, still a good driver should be able to overtake safely on a national primary road without the person in front having to facilitate them by moving into the HS.

Actually one thing which doesn't help when overtaking is the fear of being caught speeding by cops sitting on straight stretches of road. If you want to get by say a truck doing 50 mph, the safe way is to drop down a gear or two, floor it and get by him asap. You'd probably be doing 80 mph+ by the end of the maneouvre after which you can slow down to 60 or so. But if you're clocked during the overtake, they'll probably give you penalty poinst for speeding which IMO is just wrong as it's far more dangerous to overtake "slowly" in these situations.

PS - AFAIK, driving in the hard shoulder is mentioned in the Irish Rules of the Road. Apparently, a slow moving vehicle is allowed (or is it obliged?) to pull into the hard shoulder momentarily to let following vehicles pass. In other countries such as the UK, driving in the hard shoulder is a major no-no and is strictly forbidden.

BrianD3

Andrew Duffy

The rules of the road's lack of a definition of "slow" is the problem here - it is meant to describe tractors or oversized vehicles, since driving at a speed of more than 15-20 Mph in the shoulder is extremely dangerous for various reasons.

<ot>Another point of confusion is undertaking - "when traffic is moving in queues" is harldy cut-and-dried. Personally, I think that undertaking at speed should be allowed when there is a lane gap between you and the car you are undertaking (thus you can pass someone hogging lane three of a three-lane carriageway), but since we have a grand total of zero high-speed three-lane carriageways in Ireland it's a moot point.</ot>

Seth Brundle

Part of the M50 for example (Naas Rd to Ballymount junctions) is 3 lanes @ 70mph limit.
I was going to say the M1 (M50 to the airport junctions) but I think all of those sections are [stupidly] 50mph limited.
Im sure there are more - just cant think where.

Genghis

I always drive pretty much on the yellow line of the hard shoulder, and pretty much at the national speed limit. I feel this is the safest place to drive - arseholes behind you can overtake if needs be, and you are in a better position to avoid arseholes doing the same thing in the opposite direction. Finally, you are the maximum possible distance from the biggest hazard on the road - cars travelling in the opposite direction - might be significant if you / other gets a blow out, etc.

Duckjob

It's as much about manners as anything else.

Nothing pisses me off than seeing someone tootling along on righthand lane(s) of a motorway when the left lanes are empty. To me it's just plain sloppy driving as well as inconsiderate. If I find myself behind them and I want to overtake, I'll expect them to move over, but initially I'll keep my distance and 'ask' them nicely with a quick flash. If they don't move over and there's no reason they can't, I can only assume they're being awkward and trying to 'regulate' my speed for me. This makes my blood boil as in trying to enforce road rules on me, they are themselves violating the rules, raising tempers, and therefore increasingly the likelihood of irrational bahaviour on the road.

On a single lane road, it's a different story. I would never 'expect' somebody to move into the hard shoulder for me to get past. If they move over for me, great, and I'll flash my hazards in gratitude when I pass. If not, I'll keep my distance and wait for a safe opportunity. It's basic manners. If I'm the car in front, I expect the same manners from the car behind. If I know a car behind wants to get past, and it's safe, I'll move in for them. On the other hand, if some asshole comes flying up and drives up on my bumper flashing his lights and trying to heavy me into moving over, thats just plain rude. I'll just take my foot off the accelerator and let my speed wind down until he backs off. They usually get the message quick enough when they realise what they're doing is disrupting their own progress.