Hard shoulder and fast drivers

dahamsta

Lord, we're all very "responsible" here aren't we? I usually drive at about 10mph over the speed limit if the road and driving conditions permit. And if someone pulls up behind me and gives me a flash, and the hard shoulder is drivable, I'll pull over for them. If I was driving a Lamborghini at 100mph and a Ferrari pulled up behind me I'd do the same. The law doesn't come into it, it's just common courtesy. Sitting in people's way is just plain hard-headedness.

adam

Our man in Havana

The problem is the lack of progress on National routes, like grandad doing 30mph in his Nissan Micra. Thats just bad manners too.

A common failure on the driving test is failing to progress.

Duckjob

If I was driving a Lamborghini at 100mph and a Ferrari pulled up behind me I'd do the same. The law doesn't come into it, it's just common courtesy.

Firstly, it's also courtesy not to nearly drive into the back of another car flashing your lights demanding to be let past. Why should I should courtesy to someone who's showing none to me. When you walk down the street, common courtesy stops you from barging other people out of your way because you want to get to where you're going quicker. it should be no different when you are in a car.

Secondly, the law will quickly come into it if you move into the hard shoulder and skull a cyclist or a pedestrian you didn't notice.

mudflapgirl

Having a rather large commute everyday to work I experience the lot. Now, there is parts on this road where it is possible to do between 70 - 80mph safely but obviously illegally since the limit is 60mph. Most mornings, I can safely do 70mph on these roads and get away with it, I know my limitations. What annoys me is that most mornings, nearly without fail, I'll get some ar$ehole in a jeep on my bumper, flashing his lights and beeping for me to get out of the way before overtaking dangerously and giving me the finger as they pass. This morning being one of those days. I'm already speeding and yet I'm not going fast enough for these people.
Most of the time I will indeed pull over a bit into the HS so as people can pass me but when they start flashing and beeping I nearly make a point of not doing it, let them go kill themselves while I can drive past their accident.

I also find that, if you have them, putting on the back fog light can deter some of them, but other times it can the adverse effect of them flashing you constantly instead so you turn it off. The trick of tapping your brakes can backfire if they're not paying enough attention and they can rear end you, besides that rarely works outside major cities/towns anymore, they're wise to it.

I could start ranting about the road-hogs, the slow people who insist on doing 25mph in a 60 and the ones who do about 40mph in the outside lane on the M50 and M7 but we'd be here all day

KinSlayer

When someone is close behind you and is looking like they want to pass, if its safe to do so, pull into hard sholder and let them pass.

Safer for you to have let them go than have them behind getting impatient

ever seen a car passing out a string of traffic up a blind hill?

just because these drivers can be annoying why put yourself in danger?

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by KinSlayer
When someone is close behind you and is looking like they want to pass, if its safe to do so, pull into hard sholder and let them pass.

Safer for you to have let them go than have them behind getting impatient

ever seen a car passing out a string of traffic up a blind hill?

just because these drivers can be annoying why put yourself in danger?

yes, exactly, get them out of the way and let them crash into someone else

If I can see that there is nothing in the HS, then I will move over to let someone pass when it is safe for me to do so, I could not care less what speed they want to do.

kdevitt

I drive close on 1000 miles a week, Cork - Limerick-Clare- Dublin, so am unfortunate enough to see most of the crap driving thats going on.

Its amazing to see drivers every day who still haven't discovered their rear view mirror. They'll be doing 50 in the overtaking lane, a car will be flying along from well behind them and they're completely oblivious, happens to me a good bit (I generally refuse to break the speed limit on company time) and its so annoying, I don't flash the headlights or make any gestures etc, but it really stresses you out when these people don't have the consideration to use their mirrors, so I can understand where the flashing comes from on occasion - there are of course other times when you have drivers flashing the car in front for no good reason.

Actually one thing which doesn't help when overtaking is the fear of being caught speeding by cops sitting on straight stretches of road.

I thought I was alone in noticing this - a truck pulled into the hard shoulder (no flashing of headlights going on I might add) to allow me to overtake on my way home from cork a fortnight or so ago, and I overtook him, hitting 70 at the most - there was a squad car on the opposite side of the road, has really put me off overtaking even though its necessary at times because of the whole penalty points crap. I notice a lot more drivers overtaking at 60-65 miles an hour, which means its almost possible to exchange phone numbers with some of them by the time they get past you...

Seth Brundle

Out of curiosity, has anyone [here] been done for speeding whilst overtaking?

unkel

Originally posted by KinSlayer
When someone is close behind you and is looking like they want to pass, if its safe to do so, pull into hard sholder and let them pass.

Exactly, nothing more nothing less. I always let anybody that wants to overtake me do so if it's safe. I couldn't care less if it's an arsehole or not

Originally posted by mudflapgirl
I also find that, if you have them, putting on the back fog light can deter some of them

Appalling behaviour and also generating extra risks for both yourself and the arsehole behind you as well as other potential road users near you. Tapping the brake pedal is even worse imo :mad:

What's your problem?

Andrew Duffy

I'd like to caution anybody who may be tempted to follow the advice of several people on this board to pull into the hard shoulder of a national route while travelling at 60 Mph or higher not to. The impatience of the driver behind is no reason to endanger your own life by driving at high speed in a narrow, poorly surfaced lane covered in debris, parked cars and merging traffic. Just keep your speed constant, don't speed up when being overtaken, leave space between your car and a car you don't intend overtaking, and don't overtake queues of traffic under any circumstance and you will have a much higher chance of getting where you're going alive.

mudflapgirl

Originally posted by unkel
Appalling behaviour and also generating extra risks for both yourself and the arsehole behind you as well as other potential road users near you. Tapping the brake pedal is even worse imo :mad:

Hmmmm....So, in your opinion, I should sit back and let him ride my bumper until he hits me? No, Thank you. I realise that Yes, if he does happen to hit me - I can claim off him, have him arrested for dangerous driving and dealt with accordling to the law. Nice dream, but in the harsh light of day, noone is going to do a dam thing about this type of behaviour on the roads, the Gardai least of all. I have as much right as anyone to be on the roads, I pay my road tax (extorionate as it is) If I come along a scooter doing the speed limit or lower, do I sit behind them beeping and flashing, no. I wait until the road is clear and safe, and overtake them like any sane person would. But when some one comes right up my bumper and starts flashing and beeping, if I am doing the speed limit, I am well within my rights to not pull into the HS. 9/10 I will pull in and let them pass. When they come flying up in a jeep, and jockey behind me trying to get me to pull in when it's not safe to do so and I'm doing the speed limit, I won't. Simple as that. Noone has the rights to do that to anyone on the road, it's a form of bullying and I wouldn't take it in any other situation, why should I on the roads?

FYI I don't tap my brake pedal - I was using it as an example. I know it's not safe driving practise to do it - shame some road users seem to think otherwise. Using my back fog lights is the last resort for me, if they have not backed off any and I can't pull in to let them pass.

What's your problem?

I have no problem, do you?

KinSlayer

Posted by Andrew Duffy:
I'd like to caution anybody who may be tempted to follow the advice of several people on this board to pull into the hard shoulder of a national route while travelling at 60 Mph or higher not to. The impatience of the driver behind is no reason to endanger your own life by driving at high speed in a narrow, poorly surfaced lane covered in debris, parked cars and merging traffic.

Sheeesh ... There seems to be traffic in the hard sholder than anywhere else.
hard sholders vary from place to place. Here in the north west sometimes the hard sholder can be alot better than the main part of the road.

If drivers use their eyes they will be able to see the state of the hard sholder and balance the safety of driving as normal with someone being agitated behind, against the safety of having no one behind and driving for a wee bit in the hard sholder.

Alot of this is to do with politeness on the road. if ppl pull over then thank them (flash hazards), they often flash their lights for "your welcome" and everyone carries on happy. The faster driver because he wasnt being held and the slower driver for letting a curteous person past.

bop1977

Originally posted by DukeDredd
Not so when it's a national route with only one lane in either direction. Hard Shoulders are completely different stories to Slow & Overtaking lanes.

just a quick point.

there is no such thing as a "slow lane" on dual carraige ways or motorways. you have a hard shoulder, a driving lane (or 2 driving lanes if there are 3 lane + hard shoulder) and an overtaking lane

Victor

Originally posted by bop1977
just a quick point. there is no such thing as a "slow lane" on dual carraige ways or motorways. you have a hard shoulder, a driving lane (or 2 driving lanes if there are 3 lane + hard shoulder) and an overtaking lane

I think he's referring to the ambiguous "climbing" lanes.

bop1977

Originally posted by Bond-007
So it's acceptable for a lorry to plod along at 45mph and hold up traffic rather than to move over to the hard shoulder to allow them to pass?

usually i find truckers pull in when its safe for them to do so and allow u to pass. unlike most women drivers who will stick to the white line and drive at 10-20mph less than the speed limit

Andrew Duffy

Here in the north west sometimes the hard sholder can be alot better than the main part of the road.

Thats pretty much irrelevant; it is still narrow, of restricted visibility and liable to contain parked cars, pedestrians and merging traffic.

If drivers use their eyes

There is a hell of a difference between the visibility (and braking capability) of a truck driver sitting 3 metres above the ground and travelling at 30Mph and that of a car driver sitting effectively on the ground and travelling at 60Mph. Here's a proposition: ask a Garda what he or she thinks of driving at full speed in the hard shoulder to allow yourself be overtaken.

Hopefully when the rules of the road are rewritten soon this particular piece of bad advice will be removed from it.

seamus

Originally posted by mudflapgirl
But when some one comes right up my bumper and starts flashing and beeping, if I am doing the speed limit, I am well within my rights to not pull into the HS.

You have no obligation to pull in under any circumstances. Common sense should rule. If you're doing 40mph+, then it would be dangerous. If you're a tractor plodding along at 15mph, it's only common courtesy to pull in because it's mostly safe.

KinSlayer

ask a Garda what he or she thinks of driving at full speed in the hard shoulder to allow yourself be overtaken.

I wouldnt go near a temple more trained obnoxious rude garda unless it was a matter of grave importance.

Might ask a friend in the traffic police in england what he thinks.

Hopefully when the rules of the road are rewritten soon this particular piece of bad advice will be removed from it.

So this peace of curteous advice should be removed? to what effect? less people pulling over will increase impatience and probably lead to more erratic overtaking due to frustration.

If it was seen to be a dangerous there would be reports on accidents occuring due to people driving on the hardshoulder. the government would then ban it.

There are reports of dangerous overtaking causing accidents. And the government have introduced penelty point for careless driving.

seamus

Originally posted by KinSlayer
I wouldnt go near a temple more trained obnoxious rude garda unless it was a matter of grave importance.

Might ask a friend in the traffic police in england what he thinks.

So your personal opinion makes his training and knowledge less valid? :rolleyes:

So this peace of curteous advice should be removed? to what effect? less people pulling over will increase impatience and probably lead to more erratic overtaking due to frustration.

I wouldn't have it removed, but certainly edit it to the effect:
"Driving in the hard shoulder is not permitted and should not be done. However, if you are moving particularly slowly, it is acceptable to briefly cross the yellow line to allow some extra room for other drivers to overtake you if they wish. You should not treat the hard shoulder as an extra lane to be driven in under any circumstances"

Sounds reasonable to me.

BrianD3

Might ask a friend in the traffic police in england what he thinks

Ha! Of all people to ask to support your argument, he'd probably be the worst. In England, driving in the hard shoulder is strictly prohibited and a major no-no. It's completely illegal. The rules of the road are also properly enforced over there. Plus there is no "culture" of driving in the HS like there is over here.

BrianD3

CivilServant

Or "DIM YOUR LIGHTS YOU MUPPET" I hate when people are on fulls behind me and there's nothing I can do.

A guy I know who works as a car salesman was told by the rep for (insert huge German car manufacturer here) to drive around everywhere with full beams and full fogs. 'Gives the car more presence on the road' apparently.

Now what about the muppets who actually speed up when you overtake - making what was a safe overtaking manouevre deadly dangerous? And the white line merchants - sticking to the white line cos they know that you want to overtake and it seems will do all they can to keep you behind them?

Hate all the above fúkkers. One thing you could do is let them overtake you and then tailgate them with your brights on max. I don't do this though, it's risky and dangerous and most of all, too much work.

Turning on your rear fogs light is something you could try also. Then there's the people like that salesman that already has his rear fogs on when you meet him. How do you communicate that to the driver without flashing?

it's also a pleasant surprise when someone pulls in to let you pass if their driving slow. i always make sure to give a flash of me hazard lights in acknowledgement

I'd like to think when people pull in to let you pass its out of courtesy and not coercion. You're not always garaunteed a flash of the lights when you flash yours.

seamus

Originally posted by CivilServant
Then there's the people like that salesman that already has his rear fogs on when you meet him. How do you communicate that to the driver without flashing?

In fairness to the particular guy I was talking to, he refuses to do that. I'm sure plenty of his colleagues have no problem with it though.

sceptre

Originally posted by bop1977
just a quick point.

there is no such thing as a "slow lane" on dual carraige ways or motorways. you have a hard shoulder, a driving lane (or 2 driving lanes if there are 3 lane + hard shoulder) and an overtaking lane

You're correct of course. Unfortunately there are plenty of signs saying "End of Slow Lane" around the country that reinforce the myth.