Colombia 3 Innocent!

capistrano

Originally posted by Hobart
Thats your quote above. Not mine. I provided a reference.

Gawd almighty! No, that was a quote FROM your reference.

Belfast Ard Chomhairle member, Geraldine Taylor, spoke in favour of a resolution, which was passed, condemning "attempts by former Republicans to intimidate true Republicans by abductions and threats in preparation for an attempt to enforce a British-imposed settlement in collaboration with London, Dublin and Stormont parties

You keep providing references that refute your own argument. This Geraldine Talor condemned "former Republicans" - not the IRA!

Lol. You should try and not be such a media whore. I was at the SF Ard Fheis last year. That does not make me a member of SF or the IRA.

Lol myself. I take it you were not sitting on the platform with Gerry, Martin and the rest of the party nobles. This is where Monaghan was sitting so I take it he at least was a member of SF.

Now, stop wasting my time with this rubbish. I'm tired pointing out the blatant inaccuracies in your argument.

sceptre

Originally posted by capistrano
You keep providing references that refute your own argument. This Geraldine Talor condemned "former Republicans" - not the IRA!

Actually she did condemn the IRA (they and SF are the "former Republicans" she's condemning) but she doesn't count as a member of Sinn Fein as she's a member of RSF who tend to regard SF as capitulating traitors helping the occupation of the evil overlords, initially by being willing to contest Westminster elections (which caused the initial split) and these days by supporting a ceasefire which they see as rather traitorous to the cause and like to refer to the RUC (edit: and probably the PSNI) as "British Colonial Forces". While your challenge stands your post does not.

Victor

Originally posted by irish1
...gut feeling.

... also known as prejudice.

Originally posted by irish1
I don't think its make any difference what type of false documents they used.

I think there is a difference between a forged bus pass and a forged passport. However at this point I don't think anything will convince you as you appear not to want to see.

Originally posted by irish1
As for reoffending, I don't think any of these men had previous convinctions in Columbia.

At least one had a conviction here.

Villain

Originally posted by Victor
... also known as prejudice.

If you say so

Originally posted by Victor
I think theere is a diffenence between a forged bus pass and a forged passport. However at this point I don't think anything will convince you as you appear not to want to see.

I doubt you'd get into Columbia on a forged bus pass and I don't want to see what exactly??

Originally posted by Victor
At least one had a conviction here.

Did the Columbian court take this into account??

capistrano

Originally posted by sceptre
Actually she did condemn the IRA (they and SF are the "former Republicans" she's condemning) but she doesn't count as a member of Sinn Fein as she's a member of RSF who tend to regard SF as capitulating traitors helping the occupation of the evil overlords, initially by being willing to contest Westminster elections (which caused the initial split) and these days by supporting a ceasefire which they see as rather traitorous to the cause and like to refer to the RUC (edit: and probably the PSNI) as "British Colonial Forces". While your challenge stands your post does not.

Thanks for the clarification. So, basically there reference provided by Hobart was completely invalid in that it provided evidence of an RSF member condeming the IRA.

I want evidence of a SF member comdemning the IRA.

Over to you again, Hobart.

sleepwalker

Can anyone tell me how all 3 got different sentences for the same crime, i.e travelling with false documents???

quoting from the Daily Mirror in regards to your question irish1


"Monoghan got the longest sentence because of evidence that he masterminded the falsification of the documents"


I have no idea why there is a difference in the other two sentences I presume it is due to the amount of false documents they were both carrying.

Villain

Originally posted by sleepwalker
quoting from the Daily Mirror in regards to your question irish1


"Monoghan got the longest sentence because of evidence that he masterminded the falsification of the documents"


I have no idea why there is a difference in the other two sentences I presume it is due to the amount of false documents they were both carrying.

Thank you sleepwalker, that would at least explain why he got a longer sentence, hard to see how they proved that one do.

monument

Since ever one is been so technical today (maybe rightly so)…

Do you want a SF member to condemn them just because they are a paramilitary?

Originally posted by Hobart
Totally off subject, but ROFL at the google ads for this subject!! [/IMG]

Like bulk sales of print publications ads, Google ads may prove to be a big problem for some websites.

[BTW, could every one please stop using the word 'shinner'?]

sceptre

Originally posted by monument
Since ever one is been so technical today (maybe rightly so)…

Do you want a SF member to condemn them just because they are a paramilitary?

I suspect what capistrano is looking for (to be technical about it) is for an elected member of SF to condemn the IRA or evidence that they have done so. Presumably preferably a TD, MLA or MP as it's easier to verify some semblance of condemnation rather than a condemnation from a person who purports to be a member or a renegade councillor. Frankly it would be a little easier for me too - I wince when i hear the word "unfortunate". He might be happy with any old card-carrying member though.

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
If you say so



I doubt you'd get into Columbia on a forged bus pass and I don't want to see what exactly??


Did the Columbian court take this into account??

These 3 were convicted of this.

I never knew you needed forged IDs to get into Columbia -

Charlie Bird better be careful.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
These 3 were convicted of this.

I never knew you needed forged IDs to get into Columbia -

Charlie Bird better be careful.

Sorry Cork, I'm not getting ya here at all, did you read the whole thread or just my post??

I was replying to Victor.

capistrano

Originally posted by sceptre
I suspect what capistrano is looking for (to be technical about it) is for an elected member of SF to condemn the IRA or evidence that they have done so. Presumably preferably a TD, MLA or MP as it's easier to verify some semblance of condemnation rather than a condemnation from a person who purports to be a member or a renegade councillor. Frankly it would be a little easier for me too - I wince when i hear the word "unfortunate". He might be happy with any old card-carrying member though.

Cheers, sceptre, that about sums up my requirement; any old card-carrying member is probably insufficient as they do not execute party policy.

The Brigadier

As an aside to the SF/IRA link. Didn't Martin McGuinness used to be Commander in Chief of the IRA?

monument

Originally posted by capistrano
Cheers, sceptre, that about sums up my requirement; any old card-carrying member is probably insufficient as they do not execute party policy.

Yeah, I was thinking you wanted what he said.

But do you want condemnation of the IRA, or condemnation of actions of the IRA?

capistrano

Originally posted by monument
Yeah, I was thinking you wanted what he said.

But do you want condemnation of the IRA, or condemnation of actions of the IRA?

Comdemning their actions would be fine. It is too much to hope that they might actually condemn the IRA.

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
Sorry Cork, I'm not getting ya here at all, did you read the whole thread or just my post??

I was replying to Victor.

I just got a little worried about Charlie Bird out in such a place.

I'm sure the 3 lads were just doing a bit of Hiking in the Andes. Theres nothing suspicious about 3 men from the border region with Republican links travelling with false passports.

.

Hobart

Originally posted by capistrano
Thanks for the clarification. So, basically there reference provided by Hobart was completely invalid in that it provided evidence of an RSF member condeming the IRA.

I want evidence of a SF member comdemning the IRA.

Over to you again, Hobart.

Hair/Splitting etc... I provided 2 examples for you. 1 you said was a splinter group. 2 you then say does not count because, and I quote, "So, basically there reference provided by Hobart was completely invalid in that it provided evidence of an RSF member condeming the IRA." Why don't you move the goalposts again to suit your needs?

Originally posted by capistrano
Cheers, sceptre, that about sums up my requirement; any old card-carrying member is probably insufficient as they do not execute party policy.

All members of Sinn Fein, MP's, MLA, TD, "card carrying member" etc..... are required to execute party policy. It's what being a "member" of a political party is all about. However your statement is fairly consistent with the rest of your "rebuttals".

capistrano

Originally posted by Hobart
Hair/Splitting etc... I provided 2 examples for you. 1 you said was a splinter group. 2 you then say does not count because it provided evidence of an RSF member condeming the IRA. Why don't you move the goalposts again to suit your needs?

I can't decide if you are intellectually challenged or just acting dumb. It's very simple, provide me evidence of a SF memeber denouncing an IRA action.

SF condemning RIRA or CIRA or UVF or UDP or LVF or any other paramilitary group doesn't count - just IRA (or PIRA to be precise).

Also non-SF members condemning IRA (even if they are RSF) doesn't count either.

No goalposts were moved. You just can't find an example to back up your own argument.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by capistrano
I can't decide if you are intellectually challenged or just acting dumb. It's very simple, provide me evidence of a SF memeber denouncing an IRA action.

Far from condemning IRA actions, Gerry Adams has stood up on numerous podiums over the last few years (since the cease-fire) and actually praised the IRA. The IRA - the organisation that murdered over 1800 people, of which over 800 were innocent civilians with no links to paramilitary organisations. The organisation that were repsonsible for murdering more catholics than any other group. The organisation responsible for La Mon, Enniskillen, the Shankill Road bombing. He has actually praised them for this? Incidentally, he called them brave, but I'd like to know if any murdererous IRA vermin has ever been brave. Place a bomb in a pub/town square, and run away before it explodes, yeah, very brave; shoot an off-duty policeman before running away, yeah, that's real brave.

I've said all this before, but it's worth repeating. Just remember it when you're voting for Sinn Féin.

capistrano

Hear hear, ReefBreak!

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Far from condemning IRA actions, Gerry Adams has stood up on numerous podiums over the last few years (since the cease-fire) and actually praised the IRA. The IRA - the organisation that murdered over 1800 people, of which over 800 were innocent civilians with no links to paramilitary organisations. The organisation that were repsonsible for murdering more catholics than any other group. The organisation responsible for La Mon, Enniskillen, the Shankill Road bombing. He has actually praised them for this? Incidentally, he called them brave, but I'd like to know if any murdererous IRA vermin has ever been brave. Place a bomb in a pub/town square, and run away before it explodes, yeah, very brave; shoot an off-duty policeman before running away, yeah, that's real brave.

I've said all this before, but it's worth repeating. Just remember it when you're voting for Sinn Féin.

ReefBreak I can understand your anger towards the IRA in the past, but i think people need to acknowledge that they have made forward steps for Peace, ther are on a permenant cease fire and have decommisioned a large number of weapons, do you want Gerry Adams to stand up and say that the IRA are cowards and condemn the moves they have made.

You can live in the past if you like, I prefer to live in the present and look to the future, and that future is very bright for Sinn Fein whether you like it or not

ReefBreak

Even though the IRA are cowards, I don't expect him to admit as much. I shouldn't be surprised either that he's praised the IRA, but to be honest, I think it's disgusting. I don't live in the past like you said, but nevertheless I would expect at least some semblence of remorse from those that supported the actions of terrorists. Instead, we get someone virtually showing pride that the IRA murdered thousands.

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Even though the IRA are cowards, I don't expect him to admit as much. I shouldn't be surprised either that he's praised the IRA, but to be honest, I think it's disgusting. I don't live in the past like you said, but nevertheless I would expect at least some semblence of remorse from those that supported the actions of terrorists. Instead, we get someone virtually showing pride that the IRA murdered thousands.

When has he shown such pride??

ReefBreak it's time to move on, I don't expect you to forgive or forget but nevertheless it's time people moved on and acknowledged that the IRA is seeking it's goal's in a democratic manner.

capistrano

Originally posted by irish1
ReefBreak it's time to move on, I don't expect you to forgive or forget but nevertheless it's time people moved on and acknowledged that the IRA is seeking it's goal's in a democratic manner.

Democratic manner?

Does that include piunishment beatings, smuggling, banishments, abductions (Bobby Tohill - intention to murder?) and targeting?

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
When has he shown such pride??

ReefBreak it's time to move on, I don't expect you to forgive or forget but nevertheless it's time people moved on and acknowledged that the IRA is seeking it's goal's in a democratic manner.

Go to any militant republican gathering where Gerry Adams is a speaker and listen to what he says about the IRA - on a recent article I read on the Irish Times, he actually used the words "Proud of the IRA".

As for moving on, I completely agree with you. It is time to move on. Therefore I'm sure you'll also agree that the IRA should completely disband, and hand over ALL their weapons immediately. They should also show some remorse towards the victims of their terrorist atrocities. Until that happens, I cannot view SF/IRA anthing other than murderous, terrorist vermin.

The Brigadier

Well now Reefbreak - I agree with you wholeheartedly. The IRA is a despicable cowardly organisation. They are still carrying out crimes - and anyone who suggests otherwise is a deluded fool.

Before any of the Sinn Fein supporters try and come out with "but the loyalists were doing it as well mummy" remember that the loyalists don't have a political wing active in the republic.

Sinn Fein if they were serious about piece would condemn the actions of the IRA in the same way they spoke out about the War in Iraq.

Hobart

Originally posted by capistrano
Democratic manner?

Does that include piunishment beatings, smuggling, banishments, abductions (Bobby Tohill - intention to murder?) and targeting?

Are you talking about the IRA/RIRA/CIRA? Really!!

Villain

Well ReefBreak that really depends on what he was proud of the IRA for, if it was murdering people, I think thats a disgrace, however if he was proud of them for decommisioning and staying on a ceasefire I don't see anything wrong with that.

As for disbanding I agree they should but they will only do that when they have achieved certain things. I also doubt they will dispand while loyalists group are still active.

As for piunishment beatings, smuggling, banishments, abductions (Bobby Tohill - intention to murder?) and targeting?

I don't doubt that these things go on, but are they carried out by the IRA and not break away groups that neither the IRA or Sinn Fein have control over ? I don't know

I'd reply to James but apparently he has me on his ignore list so I won't waste the space, but maybe someone could tell him I'm not a deluded fool and Peace is how you spell it, not piece:D

capistrano

Originally posted by Hobart
Are you talking about the IRA/RIRA/CIRA? Really!!

If oyu can't contribute sensibly then please go away.

The quote from Irish1 was "people acknowledged that the IRA is seeking it's goal's in a democratic manner. "

So it's clearly IRA I was talking about. RIRA and CIRA have no pretensions about democratic accountability.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
Well ReefBreak that really depends on what he was proud of the IRA for, if it was murdering people, I think thats a disgrace, however if he was proud of them for decommisioning and staying on a ceasefire I don't see anything wrong with that.

Sorry to break it to you Irish1, but Gerry Adams was referring to the pre-ceasefire IRA - that's why it made the newspapers.