Colombia 3 Innocent!

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Sorry to break it to you Irish1, but Gerry Adams was referring to the pre-ceasefire IRA - that's why it made the newspapers.

In a break from normal transmission for me I'd like to point out,it's not unusual for Gerry Adams or any SF individual to praise the IRA for what they did pre-ceasefire,they would look at it, in the same way as FG look at praising Michael collins or at those who murdered in times past and are revered by FF.

What you will find less and less of, in SF though is an advocation of violence, you are more likely to hear them say they want all violence to stop.
By less and less I mean practically none, unless it's a freudian slip, like in the early days of the first ceasefire when yer man famously said they haven't gone away you know...
Clearly there is still a large majority of the Irish electorate for whom, the activities of the IRA are too fresh in their minds to consider saying one is proud of them acceptable.

Hobart

Originally posted by capistrano
If oyu can't contribute sensibly then please go away.

The quote from Irish1 was "people acknowledged that the IRA is seeking it's goal's in a democratic manner. "

So it's clearly IRA I was talking about. RIRA and CIRA have no pretensions about democratic accountability.

Firstly you are in no position to tell me to go away, so save your finger prints and don't type it again. If you cannot conduct a debate in a resonable and constructive manner I suggest you withdraw yourself from it. This is the second time on this thread you have tried to flame/insult me. Please stop.

If it is clearly the IRA you were talking about where is your proof that this is still an ongoing issue in the North?

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Sorry to break it to you Irish1, but Gerry Adams was referring to the pre-ceasefire IRA - that's why it made the newspapers.

Interesting, have to say I'm surprised, can you give me a link to the article so I can see what context he said it in.

ReefBreak

It was about two months ago in an Irish Times article - I'll see if I can dig it up from the Indo.

capistrano

Originally posted by Hobart
Firstly you are in no position to tell me to go away, so save your finger prints and don't type it again. If you cannot conduct a debate in a resonable and constructive manner I suggest you withdraw yourself from it. This is the second time on this thread you have tried to flame/insult me. Please stop.

If it is clearly the IRA you were talking about where is your proof that this is still an ongoing issue in the North?

Ah, poor sensitive boy.

So you've given up on trying to give me evidence that someone in SF did ever condemn an act of IRA violence?

As regards IRA still being an issue in NI just look at last week's IMC report. Or ask the Irish governemnt, the Gardai, the British Governement, Unionists, PSNI, etc. Frankly, the dogs in the street know the IRA are still engaged in illegal activity and that SF has organic links with the IRA.

bonkey

Originally posted by capistrano
Ah, poor sensitive boy.

I've had enough of the personal comments throughout this thread. Give them a rest please.

jc

Hobart

As regards IRA still being an issue in NI just look at last week's IMC report. Or ask the Irish governemnt, the Gardai, the British Governement, Unionists, PSNI, etc. Frankly, the dogs in the street know the IRA are still engaged in illegal activity and that SF has organic links with the IRA.

I have not had a chance to read the report in full, maybe as you have you might want to link to the relevant area. And Frankly Whatever the Gardai, Governments et-al say it means about as much as a hill of beans to me. What I would like is some tangible proof. Evidence, if you like. Was if not a number of Governments, security agencies etc... who had a recent report on WMD in Iraq or something????

capistrano

Originally posted by Hobart
I have not had a chance to read the report in full, maybe as you have you might want to link to the relevant area. And Frankly Whatever the Gardai, Governments et-al say it means about as much as a hill of beans to me. What I would like is some tangible proof. Evidence, if you like. Was if not a number of Governments, security agencies etc... who had a recent report on WMD in Iraq or something????

So you'd rather believe Gerry et al. than the numerous other sources I mentioned. That's fair enough because Gerry is obviously cleaner than the driven snow. Not like those nasty policemen and politicians. But, no, Gerry's a politician too. Agh! Does not compute! Does not compute!

Mighty_Mouse

WOW!! Theres been so much happening in the last day!!!

remember that the loyalists don't have a political wing active in the republic.

It depends how you view Ireland. I view the activities of loyalists in the north as serious as the south.

Also Im not sure who is argueing what here but you will do well to find a quote of G Adams condeming the IRA. This is because most republicans would of supported the activities of the IRA during the Troubles.

Victor

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
This is because most republicans would of supported the activities of the IRA during the Troubles.

Is that a bit self-fulfilling if one takes Republican (in the Irish context) as a "revolutionary nationalist".

Its like saying "most loyalists supported Britain".

Mighty_Mouse

Its also the reason why SF dont didnt condem the IRA which was the issue raised.

Hobart

Originally posted by capistrano
So you'd rather believe Gerry et al. than the numerous other sources I mentioned. That's fair enough because Gerry is obviously cleaner than the driven snow. Not like those nasty policemen and politicians. But, no, Gerry's a politician too. Agh! Does not compute! Does not compute!

Are you going to give me the relevant linkage or are you just going to keep pontificating?

capistrano

Originally posted by Hobart
Are you going to give me the relevant linkage or are you just going to keep pontificating?

Here's the IMC Report

Mighty_Mouse

The IMC report was outside the remit of the GFA and the make up of the commission was a joke.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
The IMC report was outside the remit of the GFA and the make up of the commission was a joke.

Of course, if the IMC was saying something that helped SF/IRA, you'd be saying the complete opposite. The makeup of the IMC was far from a joke - all members have a good reputable record.

Watching Sinn Féin, Mary Lou McDonald (you know her - she was the one that spoke at a commeration for a Irish Nazi Sympathiser) on The Week in Politics was very informative with regard to the allegations in the IMC report. The presenter asked at least 5 times whether the allegations contained in the report were true. Every time, she refused to answer the question, and refused to say any of it was false - she did the usual Shinner tactic of changing the subject or answering a different question. The impression she left with me was that she couldn't deny the IMC report, because all of it was true. So she tried to divert the interview instead.

They should really get more of these Sinn Féin gobsheens on the telly - it's a great laugh to watch. Anyone seen or heard Aengus O'Snodaigh being interviewed? Hilarious.

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Of course, if the IMC was saying something that helped SF/IRA, you'd be saying the complete opposite. The makeup of the IMC was far from a joke - all members have a good reputable record.

Watching Sinn Féin, Mary Lou McDonald (you know her - she was the one that spoke at a commeration for a Irish Nazi Sympathiser) on The Week in Politics was very informative with regard to the allegations in the IMC report. The presenter asked at least 5 times whether the allegations contained in the report were true. Every time, she refused to answer the question, and refused to deny any of it was true - she did the usual Shinner tactic of changing the subject or answering a different question. The impression she left with me was that she couldn't deny the IMC report, because all of it was true. So she tried to divert the interview instead.

They should really get more of these Sinn Féin gobsheens on the telly - it's a great laugh to watch. Anyone seen or heard Aengus O'Snodaigh being interviewed? Hilarious.

lol, ReefBreak come on, the majority of politicians in this country never answer questions. I remember seeing Bertie on that program not so long ago and he fobbed the presenter off saying " ah now come on" and that was his answer.

So you can make fun of SF all you like, but I think it is widely known that Gerry Adams is one the best speaking politicians on this Island, he's miles ahead of Berite and Enda.

So maybe you should look at a few other party's for a change instead of concentrating on SF so hard.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
lol, ReefBreak come on, the majority of politicians in this country never answer questions. I remember seeing Bertie on that program so long ago and he fobbed the presenter off saying " ah now come on" and that was his answer.

So you can make fun of SF all you like, but I think it is widely known that Gerry Adams is one the best speaking politicians on this Island, he's miles ahead of Berite and Enda.

So maybe you should look at a few other party's for a change instead of concentrating on SF so hard

I agree that the majority of politicians never answer some questions. But why didn't she these questions?

Are leading members of Sinn Féin also leading figures in the IRA? YES OR NO?
Are leading members of the IRA engaged in criminality? YES OR NO?
There were pretty easy questions to answer. But she didn't answer them. So I can only assume that the answer to both of the above was YES.

Gerry Adams is only good when diverting the answers to questions about terrorism, criminality, etc. Ask him about issues such as the economy and see how long he lasts.

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
I agree that the majority of politicians never answer some questions. But why didn't she these questions?

Are leading members of Sinn Féin also leading figures in the IRA? YES OR NO?
Are leading members of the IRA engaged in criminality? YES OR NO?
There were pretty easy questions to answer. But she didn't answer them. So I can only assume that the answer to both of the above was YES.

Gerry Adams is only good when diverting the answers to questions about terrorism, criminality, etc. Ask him about issues such as the economy and see how long he lasts.

Maybe she didn't know, or maybe she was told by HQ to not answer such questions, Politicians dodge questions everyday hour of everyday you have just decided to highlight this once instance to support your argument, which is fair enough but I wouldn't say that the fact she didn't answer means the answers are YES.

Adams is good at answering any questions, anytime he is on a panel he comes out on top, you might not like him or his party but you can't deny his ability.

Hobart

Originally posted by capistrano
Here's the IMC Report

I have read the Document. Where does it state that the PIRA/IRA members were convicted of serious crimes since the ceasefire? Where does it substantiate the "tangeable" link between Sinn Fein and the PIRA? If this is what you are reliant on

on the basis of the information we have received we believe that the situation can reasonably be summarised as follows: Some members, including some senior members, of Sinn Féin are also members, including, in some cases, senior members of PIRA.

well then its a million miles from conclusive. And its even further from proof. In fact they go on to say

It is difficult to be precise about what the relationship between Sinn Féin and the
PIRA really is or about the PIRA’s own decision-making processes.

Is this really the best you can regurgitate?

capistrano

Originally posted by Hobart
Where does it substantiate the "tangeable" link between Sinn Fein and the PIRA?

You know the IRA don't publish a list of their leaders. Indeed, I'd be very surprised if they kept any sort of records on their members. So, it is almost impossible to prove that someone is a leader of the IRA. You would need another IRA person to grass them up - and we know how the IRA deals with grasses.

The best we can do is believe the intelligence agencies who have agents on the ground, informers who won't go on the record, and techniques to monitor their activities.

It may not be enough envidence to get a conviction in a court of law, but it's enough to me to believe what the authors of the IMC report say about SF/IRA.

BuffyBot

The IMC report was outside the remit of the GFA and the make up of the commission was a joke.

You know, I get the funny feeling that no matter who was on that commision, it would still have been a "joke".

Villain

Originally posted by BuffyBot
You know, I get the funny feeling that no matter who was on that commision, it would still have been a "joke".

You know I get the funny feeling no matter what any SF supporter posts it will be bashed.

I mean is that the best reply you could come up with in reply to MightyMouse stating that the IMC report was outside the remit of the GFA and the make up of the commission was a joke.

The Brigadier

Buffybot... I agree with you.

Sinn Fein supporters are happy to live in blissfull ignorance of the fact that SF are the political Wing of the IRA.

Sinn Fein has links to a group of drug dealing, murdering thugs.

Villain

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Buffybot... I agree with you.

Sinn Fein supporters are happy to live in blissfull ignorance of the fact that SF are the political Wing of the IRA.

Sinn Fein has links to a group of drug dealing, murdering thugs.

Oh my god can you not come up with some new arguments James??

I mean just how many times are you going to state that:rolleyes:

Oh ya and the Brigadier is James Melody incase people were getting confused.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Sinn Fein supporters are happy to live in blissfull ignorance of the fact that SF are the political Wing of the IRA.

Sinn Fein has links to a group of drug dealing, murdering thugs.

I would happily state the above two statements every time the words Sinn Féin are mentioned. I think it's important: To remind myself, to remind those that are thinking of voting for those scumbags in the next election, and out of respect for the hundreds of people murdered by the 'RA over the last 35 years.

Mighty_Mouse

You know, I get the funny feeling that no matter who was on that commision, it would still have been a "joke".

I disagree, the northern Ireland peace process has been built using "external" "acceptable" "independant" "world wide respected" figures for the evaluation of situations and development of recommendations for progress.
I think that if you read a little about the NI peace process you would soon see that it has been the Unionists and British government that has had the most problems with this independant process.

As for the GFA. This has to be the way forward. It's what we signed up to to get away from biased, ad hoc commission reports which break down the process.

Sinn Fein supporters are happy to live in blissfull ignorance of the fact that SF are the political Wing of the IRA.

I can only speak for myself here. I understand the past activites of the IRA. As for the present situation I am happy with the permanent cease-fire

capistrano

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I can only speak for myself here. I understand the past activites of the IRA. As for the present situation I am happy with the permanent cease-fire

Are you also happy with their current activities of smuggling, punishment beathings, racketeering, banishments, targeting and the rest?

Mighty_Mouse

Punishment beatings & banishments = policing own areas. Answer = implement Patten

Racketeering - not convinced of how much is IRA and not Real-IRA. Regardless, in the context of the last 30 years the IRA are an organisation in the process of winding down. Needs to be more movement on the political front before disbandment

The Brigadier

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Punishment beatings & banishments = policing own areas. Answer = implement Patten

How can you condone punishment beatings like that?

Just because you are unhappy with a ploice service does not mean you can go around acting like a little thug.

I heard an article on the rte news this morning on the radio. Apparantly a survey was carried out and 50% of Catholics asked would not join the PSNI because of intimidation from their own peers.

Joe Bloggs on the street in Northern Ireland just wants to get on with his life. Unfortunatly you have Sinn Fein and the DUP spouting on and causing hatred and fear.

Northern Ireland would be a much better place without either body.

Thankfully the DUP don't campaign in Britain, I just wish Sinn Fein didn't campaign in the Republic.

capistrano

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Punishment beatings & banishments = policing own areas. Answer = implement Patten

At least you agree that SF/IRA are engaged in these activities. Most SF people say it's people in the community - not specifically the IRA.

I didn't see it myself, but apparently Bairbre de Bruin was asked on TV should people go to the police if they knew anything about the murder of 16 year old Megan McAlorum. She just couldn't bring herself to say a simeple yes. It's absolutely pathetic. How can anyone vote for people like that?