Colombia 3 Innocent!

ReefBreak

Originally posted by capistrano
I didn't see it myself, but apparently Bairbre de Bruin was asked on TV should people go to the police if they knew anything about the murder of 16 year old Megan McAlorum. She just couldn't bring herself to say a simeple yes. It's absolutely pathetic. How can anyone vote for people like that?

If it's true, I can say without exaggeration, that this actually makes me feel physically sick - and it makes me feel a amount of shame that people who call themselves "Irish" would actually vote for her. I don't think anyone that votes for Sinn Féin deserves to call themselves Irish.

Hobart

Originally posted by capistrano
You know the IRA don't publish a list of their leaders. Indeed, I'd be very surprised if they kept any sort of records on their members.

Actually I don't know that at all. How do you?

So, it is almost impossible to prove that someone is a leader of the IRA. You would need another IRA person to grass them up - and we know how the IRA deals with grasses.

There have been plenty of IRA informers over the years. I have yet to recall a situation where an IRA, "grass" as you put it, has succeded in having a member of SF convicted of terrorist activites. I wonder why this is so?

The best we can do is believe the intelligence agencies who have agents on the ground, informers who won't go on the record, and techniques to monitor their activities.

Why don't you change the word "we" for the word "I". Don't think that I have fallen into the trap of believing the media "hype" surrounding alleged "intelligence" sources and agents supposidly infiltrating the inner santum of the IRA. Too many times in the past have these so called sources proved to be nothing but agent provoceteurs (sp?). But you believe what you like. I will still reiterate my point. Where is your evidence to backup your previously raised points, with regards to the IRA and SF?

It may not be enough envidence to get a conviction in a court of law,

Don't you think it should be? Or are you of the opinion that we should return to a policy of internment without trial?

but it's enough to me to believe what the authors of the IMC report say about SF/IRA.

So you are compounding your gullability then?

BuffyBot

Originally posted by irish1
You know I get the funny feeling no matter what any SF supporter posts it will be bashed.

I mean is that the best reply you could come up with in reply to MightyMouse stating that the IMC report was outside the remit of the GFA and the make up of the commission was a joke.

I wasn't replying to his post as such, more raising a general point.

Everytime the IMC report is mentioned, the cry of "bias" goes up. Who exactly should have been sitting on the comittee? Personally, I don't think anyone would have been deemed suitable unless they were telling everyone what they want to hear.

Mighty_Mouse

How can you condone punishment beatings like that? Just because you are unhappy with a ploice service does not mean you can go around acting like a little thug.

Its a social problem where the republican community have been unable to turn to the police. Its hardly "a little problem with the police force"!!!! Collusion, murders etc etc.
All republicans are asking for is an independant police force representative of boths sides of the community and answerable to both sides of the community. Whatever you think about punishment beatings they wont stop until this large part of Northern Irish society feels it can call the police.

PS. "punishment beatings" are vastly over-reported. Especially anything the IRA is involved in. I dont even know if they are and to what extent. Its the policing thats the problem though regardless.

Apparantly a survey was carried out and 50% of Catholics asked would not join the PSNI because of intimidation from their own peers.

I read one too. Said Peter Canavan was the most popular sportsperson in britain and the wolftones were the most popular band!!! Get the point.

Joe Bloggs on the street in Northern Ireland just wants to get on with his life.

Joe Bloggs working class nationalist wants to life without intimidation, have a police force to turn to, a representative government to govern him, opportunites for education and employment..............................but hey some people want everything!

Northern Ireland would be a much better place without either body.

Yes and why can't we all get along!

At least you agree that SF/IRA are engaged in these activities

no i didnt
EDIT-

Who exactly should have been sitting on the comittee? Personally, I don't think anyone would have been deemed suitable unless they were telling everyone what they want to hear

Well no I disagree. Have you seen who was sitting on the commission? I think as in the past SF have been completely open to independant unbiased investigations and recommendations

ReefBreak

A classic! I know I don't have much time for the SDLP either!!!

I think you'll find we're the ones that are laughing right now. Congratulations.

Lads, lads lol ROFL!!! Yer killin me here!!!

Well, you'd vote for Sinn Féin - a party that has a terrorist wing that once burned 9 people alive at La Mon, so I don't think you deserve to call yourself Irish.

I read one too. Said Peter Canavan was the most popular sportsperson in britain and the wolftones were the most popular band!!! Get the point.

There's a big difference between internet surveys and real ones.

capistrano

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
:eek: :eek: A classic! I know I don't have much time for the SDLP either!!!

What the hell are you talking about? Ms Bairbre de Bruin was a SF minister in the NI executive!

Cork

Originally posted by irish1


So you can make fun of SF all you like, but I think it is widely known that Gerry Adams is one the best speaking politicians on this Island, he's miles ahead of Berite and Enda.

It is a pity that he cannot convince the tulips in the IRA to stop their punishment beatings and rackeering.

Enda Kenny and Bertie have practiced democratic politics for years - I surpose Gerry has less experience.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
It is a pity that he cannot convince the tulips in the IRA to stop their punishment beatings and rackeering.

Enda Kenny and Bertie have practiced democratic politics for years - I surpose Gerry has less experience.

Cork, man you really crack me up, you think Bertie or Enda could convince them??

I doubt they would even manage to get them on a ceasefire.

Gerry is by far a better politician than Enda or your beloved Bertie.

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
Cork, man you really crack me up, you think Bertie or Enda could convince them??

I doubt they would even manage to get them on a ceasefire.

Gerry is by far a better politician than Enda or your beloved Bertie.

The GFA is under threat. The IRA has yet to decommission and it has yet to stop being involved in punishment beatings and rackeering.

It now looks likely that SF will be hit financially because of IRA activity.

People like Des O Malley, Enda & Bertie were never cought for words condemning acts of the IRA.

"We don't want to get into the politics of condemnation" has one of the most stupid phrases ever.

The continued existance of the IRA does nothing for peace in NI.

monument

Originally posted by Cork
The GFA is under threat. The IRA has yet to decommission and it has yet to stop being involved in punishment beatings and rackeering.

And what was the one big thing that stopped it in its tracks? Was it a raid on SF offices which ended up with nothing?

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Well, you'd vote for Sinn Féin - a party that has a terrorist wing that once burned 9 people alive at La Mon, so I don't think you deserve to call yourself Irish.

I'm sure one could go on all day about what Northern Ireland's police force and British Army once did. However I wouldn’t prejudge anyone who is now serving in or supports either. I certainly wouldn’t say they don’t deserve to call their self by their own nationality.

Cork

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Well, you'd vote for Sinn Féin - a party that has a terrorist wing that once burned 9 people alive at La Mon, so I don't think you deserve to call yourself Irish.

I think the fact that the IRA continues to be active is an insult to the Irish people. Punishment beatings and rackeering need to be stopped.

The Brigadier

The IRA is unconstitutional.

Anybody who supports it is an Irish Traitor

The Brigadier

Originally posted by monument



I'm sure one could go on all day about what Northern Ireland's police force and British Army once did. However I wouldn’t prejudge anyone who is now serving in or supports either. I certainly wouldn’t say they don’t deserve to call their self by their own nationality.

Here we are the usual playground infantile attitude of the Sinn Fein supporter.

"Well somebody else is naughty as well so thats allright"

Victor

I think the fact that the Fianna Fail continues to be active is an insult to the Irish people. Threats to throw you in the Liffey and rackeering need to be stopped.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by The Brigadier
The IRA is unconstitutional.

Anybody who supports it is an Irish Traitor

thats a bit OTT :rolleyes:

Michael Collins etc are Traitors...?

The Brigadier

No, but anyone who remained in the IRA since Irish Independance is a traitor.

The Irish Constition only recognises one army. Anything else is an affront to this.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by The Brigadier
No, but anyone who remained in the IRA since Irish Independance is a traitor.

The Irish Constition only recognises one army. Anything else is an affront to this.

so what about the other six counties which should have been part of "The Irish Constition".. ?

They cant fight for freedom - because "The Irish Constition" says.. and therefore they are Traitors...

capistrano

Originally posted by Johnny_the_fox
thats a bit OTT :rolleyes:

Michael Collins etc are Traitors...?

Well, I wouldn't have approved of Michael Collins' methods either.

We would have gotten independence from Britain peacefully pretty soon anyway - and probably with a united Ireland too!

Villain

Originally posted by Victor
I think the fact that the Fianna Fail continues to be active is an insult to the Irish people. Threats to throw you in the Liffey and rackeering need to be stopped.

Nice post Victor, but you wont deter the SF bashers they can't see any problems with any other parties their too wound up about SF

The Brigadier

Freedom? Freedom from what.... We are not talking about William Wallace here.

Villain

Originally posted by capistrano
Well, I wouldn't have approved of Michael Collins' methods either.

We would have gotten independence from Britain peacefully pretty soon anyway - and probably with a united Ireland too!

LOL, you what????

OMG Where are you getting that sh*t from, if it wasn't for Collins and the other men that fought to free this state we'd be part of the British empire.

Seriously man that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever seen on this board.

The Brigadier

Originally posted by capistrano


We would have gotten independence from Britain peacefully pretty soon anyway - and probably with a united Ireland too!

Of course you would. Britain can't wait to get rid of the white elephant that is northen ireland.

The only reason that it is still part of the UK is because the majority of people in the north still want that.

capistrano

Originally posted by irish1
LOL, you what????

OMG Where are you getting that sh*t from, if it wasn't for Collins and the other men that fought to free this state we'd be part of the British empire.

Seriously man that has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever seen on this board.

Of course we would. It's called democracy and Britain is a democratic country. The empire is gone now, or haven't you noticed?

The days where Britain could prevent giving independence to a country whose people wanted it were quickly coming to an end at the time of Irish independence. Just look at Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, etc.

There was no need to sacrifice Irish life to secure independence.

Villain

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Of course you would. Britain can't wait to get rid of the white elephant that is northen ireland.

The only reason that it is still part of the UK is because the majority of people in the north still want that.

Lads seriously you have no evidence to support that what so ever, come on if they didn't want the Island why did they fight so hard to keep it???

The Brigadier

capistrano you have hit it on the head there.

Colonialism is long gone. The days of empires are over.

Coutries which have sought independance have got it.

The same would have happened to Ireland.

monument

Originally posted by capistrano
Britain is a

constitutional monarchy

Villain

Originally posted by The Brigadier
The same would have happened to Ireland.

After how many years of oppression??

lol you guys really are cracking me up

monument

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Here we are the usual playground infantile attitude of the Sinn Fein supporter.

"Well somebody else is naughty as well so thats allright"

I never said that.

And I really do not think many members of Sinn Fein would share the view I expressed above.

I think you’ve mistaking me for a hardcore SF supporter. While I am a liberal and leftwing, they are by no way my ideal party. For one huge example I would except an independent Northern Ireland, or staying part of the UK but under local democratic rule.

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Colonialism is long gone. The days of empires are over.

Coutries which have sought independance have got it.

The same would have happened to Ireland.

I’m just so shocked by the above statements I’ll have to reply later.

capistrano

Monument, constitutional monarchies are democracies too. They're just not republics.

Irish1, as regards evidence that Ireland would have gotten independence by peaceful means just look at all the other countries that were part of the British Empire. For decades now, there have been no countries denied independence if that what they wanted.

Also, Britain gave all Ireland home rule in 1914 which was just suspended because of the outbreak of WW1. THe fact that we rebelled while millions (including thousands or Irishg) were dying in the trenches probably influenced the fact that this home rule was not executed after the war.

Villain

Originally posted by capistrano
Monument, constitutional monarchies are democracies too. They're just not republics.

Irish1, as regards evidence that Ireland would have gotten independence by peaceful means just look at all the other countries that were part of the British Empire. For decades now, there have been no countries denied independence if that what they wanted.

Also, Britain gave all Ireland home rule in 1914 which was just suspended because of the outbreak of WW1. THe fact that we rebelled while millions (including thousands or Irishg) were dying in the trenches probably influenced the fact that this home rule was not executed after the war.

So how many years of oppression would Ireland have had to enjure before they given their freedom??