Colombia 3 Innocent!

The Brigadier

monument, you tried to justify the actions of the IRA by talking about other people doing the same thing.

capistrano

Originally posted by irish1
So how many years of oppression would Ireland have had to enjure before they given their freedom??

I would guess that if we hadn't rebelled we would have home rule in 1918 and full independence by 1950.

As regards opression, I think most Irish people had pretty oppressive lives in the first few decades after independence too!

Villain

Originally posted by capistrano
I would guess that if we hadn't rebelled we would have home rule in 1918 and full independence by 1950.

As regards opression, I think most Irish people had pretty oppressive lives in the first few decades after independence too!

I seriously doubt if they would given us total independence in 1950 without us fighting for it.

Your more than entitled to your opinion but I think in this case your incorrect. I think detracting anything from Collins and those who fought for Ireland is very wrong.

monument

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Colonialism is long gone.

colonialism
noun
the belief in and support for the system of one country controlling another

- from cambridge.org

One fine example is (still) the United Kingdom, so colonialism is NOT gone.

[CORECTION: not gone, replaces not gone long]

Originally posted by The Brigadier
The days of empires are over.

empire
a group of countries ruled by a single person, government or country

- from cambridge.org

A good example is (again) the United Kingdom. But seen that countries are still running islands etc which they have taken in the past there is still a load of empires out there. The word has just gone out of fashion.

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Coutries which have sought independance have got it.

That as a generalisation is not totally true. For example Spain has long ignored a call of one of its regions to be made independent.

Most which have sought independence and got it have done so through force.

Originally posted by capistrano
Monument, constitutional monarchies are democracies too. They're just not republics.

Did I say constitutional monarchies were not democracies too?

EDITED TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHAT TEXT WAS FROM CAMBRIDGE.org

capistrano

Monument, you're saying that the UK is still a colonialist country and an empire? Do you mean Scotland, Wales and Northern Irlenad?

There is no movement for independence that is supported by a majority of people in any UK region? Or for that matter any overseas territory.

You know Ireland claims Rockall, does that make us colonialists too?

capistrano

Originally posted by irish1
I think detracting anything from Collins and those who fought for Ireland is very wrong.

I'm not comparing Michael Collins to the current IRA. They were different times when violence was much more accepted in society. Even with that, the IRA who fought back then were less likely to target civillians than the current IRA.

But I still think that armed struggle back then was a mistake, and probably delayed Ireland's development to be a modern European country.

Villain

Originally posted by capistrano
I'm not comparing Michael Collins to the current IRA. They were different times when violence was much more accepted in society. Even with that, the IRA who fought back then were less likely to target civillians than the current IRA.

But I still think that armed struggle back then was a mistake, and probably delayed Ireland's development to be a modern European country.

I meant in relation to what you were saying here

Well, I wouldn't have approved of Michael Collins' methods either.

We would have gotten independence from Britain peacefully pretty soon anyway - and probably with a united Ireland too!

I don't think we should take anything away from the men of his time that fought and died for Irelands freedom.

monument

Originally posted by capistrano
Monument, you're saying that the UK is still a colonialist country and an empire?
Do you mean Scotland, Wales and Northern Irlenad?

No, the text which explained it was from cambridge.org, I only gave an examples of both.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and others.

Originally posted by capistrano
There is no movement for independence that is supported by a majority of people in any UK region? Or for that matter any overseas territory.

I never said, nor did the text from cambridge.org which explained empire and colonialism, say any thing about an empire or colonialism having to include or exclude support by a majority.

Could the mass presumption please stop?

ADDED...

Originally posted by capistrano
You know Ireland claims Rockall, does that make us colonialists too?

No. Because it is a rock which Ireland only has a clam to, even if we owned it would not be colonialism, as it was never a country to start with. Please don’t try to argue with such silly questions.

The Brigadier

Originally posted by monument
No, the text which explained it was from cambridge.org, I only gave an examples of both.

You give a definition of colonialism and empire.

YOU then give Britain as an example of both.

In what strange use of the English language is this NOT calling the UK a colonialist country and an Empire?

monument

Originally posted by The Brigadier
You give a definition of colonialism and empire.

I've now made it VERY clear what text is from cambridge.org.

Originally posted by The Brigadier
In what strange use of the English language is this NOT calling the UK a colonialist country and an Empire?

I said "the text which explained it was from cambridge.org", which I've now made more clear.

I NEVER said I was not calling it an empire and a colonialist country.

All I can say is... mind boggling.

capistrano

Originally posted by monument
Please don’t try to argue with such silly questions.

That's rich coming from someone who thinks Scotland and Wales are colonies!

The Brigadier

olonialism
noun
the belief in and support for the system of one country controlling another

- from cambridge.org

The Above is from Cambridge

One fine example is (still) the United Kingdom, so colonialism is NOT gone.

The above is from YOU.

Cambridge defines colonialism.

You use the UK......

Now do I have to hold your hand though it?

monument

Originally posted by The Brigadier
The Above is from Cambridge

The above is from YOU.

Cambridge defines colonialism.

You use the UK......

Now do I have to hold your hand though it?

Which I have said. You even quoted me saying it!!!!...

Originally posted by The Brigadier

Originally posted by monument
No, the text which explained it was from cambridge.org, I only gave an examples of both.

You give a definition of colonialism and empire.

YOU then give Britain as an example of both.

In what strange use of the English language is this NOT calling the UK a colonialist country and an Empire?

capistrano

Originally posted by monument
I NEVER said I was not calling it an empire and a colonialist country.

All I can say is... mind boggling.

I'm not surprised your mind is boggling. What with all these non-sequiturs seemingly making sense in your mind.

Does "I NEVER said I was not calling it an empire and a colonialist country" mean "I was calling it an empire and a colonialist country"? Double negstive.

Face it, you privided a dictionary definition of colonialism and empire and then you yourself quoted the UK as an example of both. Now you are saying you never said that. Your mind's boggling - give a thought to the rest of us!

monument

"I was calling it an empire and a colonialist country"

Was not what I was trying to say, becasue I never said the UK was a empire and a colonialist country. Hovever I may have inferred (or possibly implied) it.

Originally posted by capistrano
Double negstive.

= positive

Congrats, you nearly broke the code.

Originally posted by capistrano
That's rich coming from someone who thinks Scotland and Wales are colonies!

Very historic, and democratic ones, but yes. Unless you can remember them getting independence?

However, it’s really not the type of technical issue that I had wished to argue about, and we’ve gone a few hundred miles off topic.

The Brigadier

You are really making a fool of yourself here.

monument

Originally posted by The Brigadier
You are really making a fool of yourself here.

Where?

The Brigadier

Originally posted by capistrano

Face it, you privided a dictionary definition of colonialism and empire and then you yourself quoted the UK as an example of both. Now you are saying you never said that. Your mind's boggling - give a thought to the rest of us!

Now stop posting nonsense.

monument

Originally posted by The Brigadier
Now stop posting nonsense.

I've allready replyed to that post of his.

I did not say (type) "the UK is a empire and a colonialist country".

I inferred it.

(EDIT: as in I inferred the quote. I did say what is in the quote)

The Brigadier

When you give a definiton and then say

You decide to use the UK as an example.

Then you are saying it and not inferring it.

monument

Apologies my last post is slightly off putting. I was talking about the quote, and not its meaning).

I’m saying I never said, as in typed the words, "I was calling it an empire and a colonialist country", other then quoting somebody.

Which does not mean I was not calling it an empire and a colonialist country. Because I have done so.

I hope that clears thinks up.

monument

Anyway apologies for going into and dragging others into detail which is by no way important, and probably not making sense to a lot of people.

I guess it is back on topic now…

Mighty_Mouse

Its ironic that Sinn Fein supporters are called traitors yet the type of people who fell that NI is british, that NI ideally should be dragged of to the middle of the sea and sank etc etc etc are not.
Also a unique if not anything else concept that Britain was "just about" to free all of Ireland only for those IRA buggers to feck things up in 1916.

I couldnt really follow the whole cambridge dictionary thing but to say the colony was just about to break-up and free everybody. mmmm interesting concept also

Finally to say the unacceptable difference between the "old" IRA and "more recent" IRA is that voilence was more acceptable in society back then!!! I struggled with that a little I must admit.

bonkey

Originally posted by The Brigadier
You are really making a fool of yourself here.

No personal attacks please....

and maybe someone could possibly think of trying to get back to something approaching the topic supposedly at hand, rather than another vanilla-flavoured "Oh My Gawd, I cannot bellleeeeeeve you support / don't support Republicanism / Sinn Féin / the IRA" thread.

I mean - just how many of those are needed?

jc

The Brigadier

Bonkey...

sorry. I didn't think I was making a personal attack there.

I'll watch it though.

Mighty_Mouse

Ok, maby this will drag it back on topic:

The Government has reportedly agreed to loan €17,000 to the so-called Colombia Three to help secure their release from a Colombian jail.

James Monaghan, Martin McCauley and Niall Connolly ...are expected to be released in the near future under what the Colombian legal system terms “conditional freedom”, which includes the payment of a bond.

Reports this morning said the Department of Foreign Affairs had agreed to loan the bond to the three Irishmen “on the basis of a firm undertaking to repay this sum”.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/04/30/story145250.html
Personally I would like to take the opportunity to thank all the tax-payers on boards for helo secure the release of the Columbian 3.

The Brigadier

I hope there is a nice big interest rate on the loan.

And I really hope they collect.

capistrano

Why doesn't SF/IRA pay the €17k? They've got pretty deep pockets.

I don't see why Irish taxpayers should pay anything when irish citizens are conviceted of criminal offences in another country.

Hobart

Originally posted by capistrano
Why doesn't SF/IRA pay the €17k? They've got pretty deep pockets.

I don't see why Irish taxpayers should pay anything when irish citizens are conviceted of criminal offences in another country.

Are you suggesting that every individuals politicol allegencies should be checked out before the Government step in to help them?

Mighty_Mouse

SF/IRA

You keep making the same typo.

They've got pretty deep pockets.

how do you know. Are you talking about SF or IRA?