"Fender bender" claim - is this guy chancing his arm?

peckerhead

G’day all, wonder if anyone has any advice to offer, as I’m feeling a little bit taken for a ride and wondering how to proceed...

Week before last, the missus and myself were visiting Dublin for an overnight — without the kids! — and staying in Jurys, Ballsbridge. As I pulled in to the carpark, there was an old-ish couple sitting in their car in the passenger set-down area just in front of the main entrance and I had to squeeze past their car at a bit of an angle to get around into the main parking area. As I was stopped at the entrance barrier waiting for the ticket to come out, the old guy came running up behind me, all red in the face, and claimed that I’d hit his car as I passed. Now, to be perfectly honest, I’d heard and felt absolutely nothing, although I’ll fully admit it was a tight fit and it’s not impossible that I could have “grazed” it without realising.

So I parked and came back to look at his car — a shiny new ’04 Hyundai Accent. I couldn’t see a scratch on it, but he pointed out a tiny little scuff mark on the wraparound edge of the rear lamphouse — literally about 1" high by 1/4" across, and zero depth. “Fender bender” is not the right word for this at all — it’s not even what you could call a “gouge” or a serious scratch, I’m talking about something you’d leave if your coat-button brushed against it. And I'm pretty sure it would rub out with a soft cloth and a bit of polish...

Anyway, the guy was real hot under the collar about his brand-new car and insisted on taking my name, address, reg. no., insurance details, etc. (although he would only give me his name and 'phone no.). He also pointed out — quite ridiculously — an existing mark on my own car that had been there for ages and is a completely different colour anyway (matches the black paint on our gateposts at home, whereas his car was silver…) and claimed that this was where I’d hit him.

Up until now, I’d been humouring him, despite his frankly very aggressive and rude manner — largely because he looked like he was going to have an heart attack or something, and at this point we were running late for a dinner appointment. Fortunately, I remembered I had my camera in the glove compartment of our own car, and I insisted on taking a few good close-ups of his “damaged” rear lamp (one of the pix attached below) — which softened his cough a little bit .

I heard nothing more from him and, to be honest, I figured his wife had probably managed to calm him down or that he’d “got real” about it himself once his fit of pique had passed… then today I got a very curt ’phone call from him at my workplace telling me that his garage (main dealer…) has quoted €150 for a complete new lamp assembly plus fitting, plus a partial respray of his wing panel, which hasn't so much as a mark on it...!

Now, on the one hand I can understand where he’s coming from — “angry old man”, brand new “love-of-his-life” car, etc. (the guy probably keeps a shotgun handy to blast pigeons or small children that get too close…)

But on the other, I can’t help feeling I'm getting a bit screwed here. Any advice? Do I have a leg to stand on? Should I offer him €75 and tell him I’ll see him in court, otherwise? Or should I just cough up…?

peckerhead

Merrion

What kind of car do you drive - just wondering how the scratch is above and about an inch and a half in from the bumper...
Although it is probably too late now you might like to ask if Jury's have the car park covered by security camera. It just looks awfully suspicious to me.

Dr. Dre

Surely you couldn't have made that mark without leaving some tell-tale sign on the bumper ?

Personally, I'd tell him to hop it. I would hazzard a guess that 99% of cars on the road today (old and new) have some kind of non-manufactured blemish on them. Reality check required me thinks.
IMO

peckerhead

That part isn't too hard to believe, Merrion. I drive a 7-seater Alhambra and the outermost part of my rear bumper would be a good bit higher off the ground than on a low-slung saloon type...

Good idea about the CCTV, but when I rang them they told me that
(a) it was very unlikely that footage from two weeks ago would still be in the system, unless they'd had reason to keep it (like a break-in that was reported to them), and
(b) they wouldn't be allowed release this except by order of the Gardai...

:dunno:

P.S. Dr. Dre (posts crossed...) I'll look closer at my own car tonight. To be honest, the missus has put so many dings and scrapes on the effin' thing over the years that it'll be hard to tell the difference! Part of her is only delirah that it's my fault this time...!

Kersh

Tell him to p*** off and get a life. He is chancing his arm.
Unless he has proof you did hit him. A guy hit me in traffic, and drove off, and the gardai said that there was not enough damage done to my car to warrant them chasing the offender (I got his reg). Can you believe that. They actually told me 'this sort of bumping and scraping happens everyday'. I hit the roof.

Turner

Deny that you ever hit him. You gave him your insurance details to calm him down as you were worried for his health.

Let him take you to court if he wants.

He wont.

BrianD3

There does look to be a tiny scrape on the rear wing in the picture you took. It's just below the blue arrow. It's not the sort of scrape that would require any sort of respraying - a tube of touch up paint is all that would be needed for something that tiny, however I guess if someone wanted to a pr1ck about it they could demand a respray but that would be totally OTT and unresonable in my opinion.

Also, since when did a rear light unit for an accent cost 150 quid plus fitting? Those light clusters are not that dear AFAIK - more like 80-100 quid. Check it out yourself, walk into the nearest Hyundai dealer and get a price for the part yourself. If it's less than what yer man quoted you, ring him back and bollock the head off him for trying to rip you off and then tell him he can **** off with his fraudlent claim.

If the price he quoted you is correct - well I don't really know what you should do. Argue with him about how trivial the "damage" is or something. Maybe as already suggested try to meet him halfway on price.

BrianD3

seamus

Originally posted by Chief---
Deny that you ever hit him. You gave him your insurance details to calm him down as you were worried for his health.

Let him take you to court if he wants.

He wont.

Yep. You never admitted liability, or even that you hit him.

The fact that you have pictures would seal it tbh. Rear panel respary? I don't see any damage to the rear panel in that picture....

Seth Brundle

This does not warrant repair and I would refuse to pay - the damage isn't even in an important part of the light.
He has no proof it was you, and you never admitted you hit him [although you did give your insurance details]. the fact that he was reluctant to give his details to you is suspicious.
You have other pics - do they show up a similar scar on the light?
Tell him to take a running jump!

Victor

Hang on - I can't actually see an actual scrath there - how big was it? Is there a separate scratch on the metalwork?

Also, are we looking at the side or rear of the car in that photo (not very clear)?

kdevitt

Should it go anywhere near your insurance considering you were on private property??? Sounds like the garage are bigger chancers than the oul lad tbh

bop1977

your man is some chancer tell him to take a running jump. even if the light cluster had to be replaced there seems to be no need for any kind of respray around the panel also if it is only the light cluster surely a replacement cover is all that is needed and that is only a 5 min job.

i have a better idea let him try to exagerate his claim and then phone the insurance fraud hotline for ott claims and luagh at his stupidity.

Atomic Pineapple

yeh can see the scratch just across the cluster but sure its not exactly a big deal is it? can be sure that by the time he's got his use out of the car he'll have plenty of scratchs on it!

Doubt a new cluster costs €150 either, a lad from around here priced a new cluster on a 02 clio and it cost €70, cant see how a hyndai cluster can be more than twice that!

MojoMaker

Peckerhead, even a "coat button" scratch can cost at least €150 to repair thse days. No he is not trying to shaft you. Pay up and apologise for glancing his car. You are getting off lightly tbh.

the evil belly

Originally posted by draffodx
Doubt a new cluster costs €150 either, a lad from around here priced a new cluster on a 02 clio and it cost €70, cant see how a hyndai cluster can be more than twice that!

new clusters for a 2001 nissan almera hatch are somewhere between 100 and 200 plus fitting

looking at the picture i's tell him to piss off. it's hardly visible. if it comes to it fight it in court

Imposter

What part of your car could do that? Is your bumper that high and would it not have touched his bumper also? Why did it produce the scratch it did, if you hit him, and not a scratch across more of the light? Why was he 'parked' where he was?

Seems very suspicious to me.

peckerhead

Jeez, thanks for all the feedback guys, and sorry I haven't posted back earlier.

At the end of the day, I've decided just to hand over the €150 he's looking for — for the following reasons:

(a) although I didn't feel/hear anything, like I said, it's not at all impossible that I did graze him as I squeezed past. I was turning, and with the long wheelbase on the Alhambra the arse end can move across quite a bit, even though the nose and the front part of the car seem well clear. And I had music playing at the time, so I wouldn't have heard a little schhhhhhht like that...

Like I said, the guy was fit to pop — but, I think, with righteous indignation. I really don't think he was sitting there looking out for someone to screw for an existing scratch. The guy looks retired, he lives in D6, lunches in Jurys with his old dear, wears tweed and cravats... you get the picture. He doesn't need to be at that kind of game.

(b) I checked up with the local Hyundai dealer, and just to supply a new tail lamp — never mind fit it — is €110 + VAT, i.e. about €135. :eek: So €150 to have it fitted isn't unreasonable — you're right, MojoMaker. Whether it's reasonable to demand a brand new lamp on foot of that little scuff-mark is another thing, but hey — old duffer (sorry, gent!), sitting there in his brand-new "love-of-his-life" car minding his own business, and along comes a young fella in a mucky great people-carrier and tips him from behind — without even noticing! What would you advise your old man to do...?

(c) Lastly and foremost, OK, I could take the view that he's no proof, tell him to stuff it and see if he takes me to court. But he struck me as the type that would, and if the judge preferred "respectable old gent"'s evidence to "scruffy young old-fella-with-a-bad-haircut", then I'd be picking up his legal costs as well. And that would surely be a hell of a lot more than €150...:dunno:

And anyway, that happened to us once — a truck reversed smack into my wife while she was sitting in traffic, and then the consthruction company denied liability afterwards, and we wasted a year taking them to court just to get back our costs and our no-claims bonus — and frankly, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

So me down €150, but karma intact... :rolleyes:
Thanks for all the advice!

peckerhead

Bluehair

Originally posted by peckerhead
So me down €150, but karma intact... :rolleyes:

Good call. I was all set to join the "tell him to shove it" brigade but reckon you did the right thing.

kmick

Tell him you will pay him the money if he allows two of your friends Michael Ward and Mikey Connors to come over and assess their gutters and driveways for repair. Tell him they will also sell him some carpet and a new set of galvanised gates "REEL CHEAP".

trotter_inc

Just tell him to f*ck off - he cant prove any of it so you're innocent!

seamus

Once again, the phenomenon of "reading the first post and maybe the second or third replies before posting the same thing as everyone else but out of date" takes hold.

Staggering.

peckerhead

Staggering.

You, or the phenomenon, seamus..?

(Sorry, smee acksherly, just back from a post-work "quick one or nine" on an empty stummick... )

Still, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy... (now, who said that...?)

ph

Atomic Pineapple

ya'd think he'd just pay for it himself, he's old, has money and can well afford it, i bet you'd miss €150 more than him, i got a much worse scratch (down to bare metal) over a wheel arch when a car came too close, i just said its grand and paid for the repairs myself, these things happen and i cant see why people cant just leave it and get on with more important things in life

oneweb

Originally posted by peckerhead
I really don't think he was sitting there looking out for someone to screw for an existing scratch. The guy looks retired, he lives in D6, lunches in Jurys with his old dear, wears tweed and cravats... you get the picture. He doesn't need to be at that kind of game.

And how do you think the man built up such a lifestyle, eh???

And people don't believe me when I tell them to beware the oul' grannies and grandads with their innocent-looking hairdos, canvas bags and canes - they're the ones robbing the place blind!! Just look at the old people next time you're in town. Just don't look them in the eye, they'll lull you into a false sense of security...

peckerhead

Ya, I know, but he's gonna die soon and go to HELL...!

Atomic Pineapple

how do you know there is a hell?

he could just die and not suffer for his grumpiness and stuff,

And people don't believe me when I tell them to beware the oul' grannies and grandads with their innocent-looking hairdos, canvas bags and canes - they're the ones robbing the place blind!! Just look at the old people next time you're in town. Just don't look them in the eye, they'll lull you into a false sense of security...

exactly what i'm trying to say, accidents and stuff happen, why cant he just get on with it and stop moaning and complaining and completely over reacting, it is in the end just a wee scratch on a car, he should just leave it and get on with life and get it fixed himself if it bothers him so much!

peckerhead

how do you know there is a hell?

Boy, you better git yoreself over here...

Tommy Vercetti

Since you're being so reasonable about it, ask, no demand that he hands over the damaged part to you - it's kinda your property now! Maybe that could change his mind?

oneweb

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
Since you're being so reasonable about it, ask, no demand that he hands over the damaged part to you - it's kinda your property now! Maybe that could change his mind?

Actually that's a brilliant idea Unless the garage takes it for extras or whatever - do they do that?

peckerhead

oneweb and Tommy,

'course they do.

And what the fork would I want with a Hyundai Accent tail lamp...?

Ok, the guy's an aul' fart. But whaddya gonna do wid dese old people...?

ph

P.S. Nobody told me yet who said "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy..."

I'll give ye a clue — it was a (recently deceased) Son of Limerick.
("Duel of de Mid-West")

Big al

Peckerhead,

tell him to go and ****e!

Last year a farmer dropped a rock on the road in front of my car, I couldnt avoid and it ended up costs me €7500, he still denies that he was there, so i'm down 7k (poor me) This knob jockey has nothing to complain about, I had to look twice to see what the problem was with his light.

I can hear what the gardai will tell him when he shows the "damange"