Memnoch's Spin Translator - Colin Powell and Iraqi Freedom

Memnoch

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D02F2810-0D0A-478C-A6EE-C9CACAC1415C.htm

Any new Iraqi government due to take power on 1 July will have to surrender many of its powers to occupation forces.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell said it was essential the 135,000 troops who invaded and occupied Iraq without a UN mandate continue to operate under US command.

So Iraq will be "free" in name, but we will be keeping things under our control.

"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up and running - to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given back."

I hope they understand, that we have spent a lot of time and effort on conquering iraq, and we were never really gonna give back true control of the country to iraqi's. But all the pro-war and pro-bush supporters can happily claim victory for democracy as the US army rules the country.

"We have to be able to operate freely, which in some ways infringes on what some would call full sovereignty."

we have to be able to exercise our military power at will and keep control of the country so that we can milk it for as much money as we possibly can. All those campaign contributors are expecting to make a lot of money out of this and so they should, since they helped us hijack the election. We can't very well have an iraqi government interfering with the US indiscriminately bombing civillian's habitats, shooting buildings without knowing who is inside and laying siege to entire cities.

The US has insisted it is sticking to the planned timetable of transferring power to an interim Iraqi government after 30 June despite retaining control of the military in the face of growing resistance.

The US is transferring over power to the Iraqi's in NAME only. In reality it would seem the US has kept control of everything.

Speaking in Washington on Monday, Powell said the occupation authority did not mean to "seize anything away" from the planned caretaker government.

Come on, how dumb can you be? We've spent 700 american lives on this damn occupation, off course we are going to keep control of the country. The government is a puppet and always will be.

The US has placed much of its hopes for ultimately extrictating itself from Iraq in the hands of the UN envoy al-Akhdar al-Ibrahimi.

Brahimi proposal

Al-Ibrahimi has proposed a caretaker government led by a prime minister, a president and two vice presidents take over until elections can be held by January.

The US has placed much of its hopes of trying to "legitimise" its illegal and immoral occupation and control of the country.

Powell said he was sure whatever new Iraqi government emerged, it would legitimise the presence of US-led troops in Iraq.

Don't worry guys, they will do what they are told. After all we got 135,000 troops with guns pointed at their heads. They know whats good for them. And like we do to other puppet governments we support, we will throw a few scraps their way from time to time. Hell whats a million dollars here or there while we steal billions from the Iraqi's and the US tax payers.

Powell also sought to damp down the view, voiced by many analysts, that the massive 3000-employee US Embassy in Baghdad led by ambassador John Negroponte would be the real government.

Powel knows that the American's are running the show. Powel knows that anyone with a brain bigger than the size of a pea can see through his lies. But the US has the army and the power, and its doing what it damn well wants. Might does make right after all!

vorbis

:rolleyes: isn't this a form of trolling?
no one expects the iraqis to gain full sovereignity on June 30th. What is expected is that some power is going to move back to them. Personally, I think the process to establishing an independent Iraq will take at least another year.

Memnoch

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3660389.stm
from the BBC to back up my statements above

It will be appointed not elected

It will have no powers to make laws

Laws and rules already made by the Coalition will remain in force

It will probably not have controlling power over the Coalition forces which after 30 June will become the "multi-national force"

Memnoch

Originally posted by vorbis
:rolleyes: isn't this a form of trolling?
no one expects the iraqis to gain full sovereignity on June 30th. What is expected is that some power is going to move back to them. Personally, I think the process to establishing an independent Iraq will take at least another year.

if you accuse me of trolling lets see you back up your statements...

also you said no one expects Iraq to have "full sovereignity"

yet Dubya and his Cronies have been touting the much anticipated "hand over of power by june 30th to iraqi's" for a long time now....

now I challenege you to show me HOW in ANY WAY is this ANY form of sovereignity...

what power is going to move back to them exactly? PLEASE kindly educate us.

from www.dictionary.com

sovereignty

\Sov"er*eign*ty\, n.; pl. Sovereignties. [OE. soverainetee, OF. sovrainet, F. souverainet.] The quality or state of being sovereign, or of being a sovereign; the exercise of, or right to exercise, supreme power; dominion; sway; supremacy; independence; also, that which is sovereign; a sovereign state; as, Italy was formerly divided into many sovereignties.

sov·er·eign·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (svr-n-t, svrn-)
n. pl. sov·er·eign·ties
Supremacy of authority or rule as exercised by a sovereign or sovereign state.
Royal rank, authority, or power.
Complete independence and self-government.
A territory existing as an independent state.

government free from external control 2: royal authority; the dominion of a monarch [syn: reign]

as shown above, sovereignty in this context refers to a COMPLETE and INDEPENDENT self-government. An Independent state. The exercise or, or right to exercise, supreme power, independence.

so please tell me, how Iraq will meet the defintion by any standards after june 30th ?

sceptre

Charter:

Allegations of trollery will not be accepted in-thread - they will be viewed as simply another form of personal attack, and dealt with accordingly. If you believe someone is trolling, and object, then report them as per "Reporting & Moderating" above.

If the Iraqis don't control their own country they don't have sovereignty. It's pretty simple.

vorbis

Memnoch the point is what are you arguing about.

The plan is that 30 June will represent a real transfer of power, part of a process leading to a fully elected Iraqi government by the end of 2005.

As the article says this is merely the first step towards handing over full sovereignity to the Iraqis. You're saying that that body will be limited in its actions. No one disputes that yet you attempt to show this as something being spun by the Americans?? Where is the supposed deceit?

Memnoch

Originally posted by vorbis
Memnoch the point is what are you arguing about.



As the article says this is merely the first step towards handing over full sovereignity to the Iraqis. You're saying that that body will be limited in its actions. No one disputes that yet you attempt to show this as something being spun by the Americans?? Where is the supposed deceit?

okay ... where oh where do i begin....

firstly you still haven't backed up your allegations of trolling... so either back them up or take them back and appologise

Secondly, we all well know that for a long time the American's have talking about the Hand over of power to iraqi's.... all that time they never said, we will hand over a "small amount of power", or "the handing over of power is only symbolic".

Thirdly, I still urge you to demonstrate to me exactly what power, if any is being handed over? From the articles from Al Jazeera and the BBC it is quite blatently clear that no REAL power is being handed over at all. The coalition is still going to be running things.

Don't try to pretend that Dubya and Co. weren't touting this as "freedom" for iraq... it was just a political ploy all along and was obvious to most of us.

Lastly, I ask you to read ONCE AGAIN, the definition above of the term sovereignity. And challenge you ONCE AGAIN, to show me what sovereignity if ANY is being handed back to the Iraqi's by June 30th?

You can bet the American's atleast IN america will claim that Iraq is now "governing itself" thanks to political spin exerted by the likes of Fox News, when the reality is that the Iraqi government will have no more say in any actually decision making in Iraq after June 30th than it does today.

Tuars

we [the US] will be keeping things under our control.

It might be a start if they were in control of things in the first place.

This whole adventure is incompetent beyond belief. Even if you support the goals and intentions of the occupiers in Iraq you have to be at least a tiny bit embarrassed at the mess they've made of the situation.

shotamoose

The occuppiers and their appointed administrators are certainly working hard to ensure that there are no decisions left for the new 'slightly-sovereign' Iraqi government to take. They've even decided to design a new Iraqi flag!

This from CNN

Flap over new Iraq flag

Tuesday, April 27, 2004 Posted: 6:11 AM EDT (1011 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Iraq's U.S.-picked leaders have approved a new flag for the country, dumping Saddam Hussein's red-and-black standard.



The new design is white with two blue stripes, and although it has a crescent representing Islam, the flag no longer bears the words "God is great."

The new design not only abandons the symbols of Saddam's regime. It also avoids the colors used in other Arab flags: green and black for Islam and red for Arab nationalism. The change recalls the U.S. agenda of creating a "New Iraq" that is exceptional in the Arab world.

The flag, designed by an Iraqi artist and approved by the Governing Council, has two parallel blue stripes along the bottom with a yellow stripe in between.

The blue stripes represent the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and -- because the river basin is Iraq's Arab heartland -- therefore symbolize the country's Sunni and Shiite Arabs. The yellow stripe represents Iraq's ethnic Kurd minority, taking its color from the yellow star on the flag of Kurdistan.

Above the stripes, in a white field, is a blue crescent of Islam.

The only country in the Middle East with blue stripes in its flag is Israel, which has a Star of David on a field of white between horizontal blue bands ...

What a brilliant idea :rolleyes: . Now, if Iraqis democratically decide to change their flag, I have no problem with that. I have no idea how ordinary Iraqis feel about the Saddam-era one, and I note that the CPA and Governing Council seem to have made no effort to find out either. Personally, I thought the 'old' Iraqi flag was pretty stylish ...

Victor

Originally posted by shotamoose
I have no idea how ordinary Iraqis feel about the Saddam-era one

It was a fairly generic Arab one, I don't think it had much "Saddam" connotation other thatn him adding the text to improve his Islamic creditentials.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/sy.html Syria
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/eg.html Egypt
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ye.html Yemen
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/kw.html Kuwait
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/jo.html Jordan
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ps.html Palestine