Bad day for Beverly!!

Zombrex

Originally posted by Cork
TThe standards being applied to her are not being applied to all TDs.

Who has been allowed to stay in a government party after it emerge that they encouraged people to break the law?

gandalf

Originally posted by Wicknight
Who has been allowed to stay in a government party after it emerge that they encouraged people to break the law?

Or break their legs while drunk driving!!!

bonkey

Originally posted by gandalf
Or break their legs while drunk driving!!!

Now now.

No-one in the Dail has encouraged anyone to get drunk, drive, and break someone's legs.

They may have set a p1ss-poor example, but they did not knowingly and willingly encourage illegal activity in others as part of their job, and then claim that it was libellous to say that they had done this.

[/b][/quote]The standards being applied to her are not being applied to all TDs.[/b][/quote]
Name one other TD who, in the course of their previous job, openly encouraged people to break the law.

Name one other TD who has fought and lost a court case claiming that allegations made about their collusion in such type of activity constituted libel - in effect claiming that it was not true.

You want to talk about equal standards Cork? Then call for an end to any tribunals still ongoing, to be replaced by full police investigations, with any wrongdoing on the part of any TD to be prosecuted by the full weight of the law. Call for full criminal investigations into any currently-serving, or no longer serving, but currently living TD who has been found to have had any wrongdoings under any of these tribunals. Call for zero tolerance in the policing of our politicians.

But please do not do anyone here the insult of suggesting that the correct way to treat all of our TDs failrly is to continue to turn a blind eye to any misdealings.....even if you're suggesting only that we turn a blind eye until such times as we have what you see as a perfect system in place.

jc



jc

Cork

No, I am not suggesting that we turn a blind eye. But niether can we be happy to police our public representatives on the basis of ad hoc media reports.

We have ethics committee and register of interests that TDs comply with. But, Beverly Flynn may be sanctioned for something that She may have done prior to being elected to public office.

Surely, If she is being scrutinised in this way - All TDs should be subject to the same standards. It is surely not appropriate for standards to be enforced at the wim of media reports.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
No, I am not suggesting that we turn a blind eye. But niether can we be happy to police our public representatives on the basis of ad hoc media reports.

So you're saying that a court finding that allegations were not libellous is "ad hoc media reports". Or was it the media reports of this court finding that were ad hoc? Or the reports that Bev lost a case where she said these allegations were false, meaning that - legally speaking - she lied???

Exactly which of these reports were ad hoc and shouldn't be accepted?

Cork - either you haven't got a clue about the facts of what you are trying to discuss, or you are deliberately misrepresenting them. This was not policing based on ad hoc media reports. You know it, I know it, and anyone still reading this thead knows it. The only difference seems to be that at least one of us still seems to believe that telling people something they know to be false may actually convince them otherwise.

Bit like Bev insisting she was libelled really - I can see why you have so much time for her. The two of you seem to view things in the same light - you both apparently believe if you insist white is black for long enough, people with perfectly good eyesight will believe you.

But, Beverly Flynn may be sanctioned for something that She may have done prior to being elected to public office.

She fought and lost the libel case before being elected? Are you serious? Do you really know that little about the timeline of the case?

Surely, If she is being scrutinised in this way - All TDs should be subject to the same standards. It is surely not appropriate for standards to be enforced at the wim of media reports.

I've already asked you to call for the suspension of all tribunals and their replacement by legally-applicable investigations.

When you call for the FF TDs found to have any sort of corrupt financial dealings to be treated like the criminals they have admitted to being, I will take this comment of yours as being actually genuine, and not another piece of spin to try and argue in favour of supporting teh continuation of corruption.

Thats all it will take from you Cork. Call for them to be dealt with by the law, rather than Bev being let off like they were, and I will actually believe that you are genuine.

Go on. Say it : "Put CJ on trial, and send him to prison if he either refuses to co-operate, lies, or is found guilty".

Say it, and I'll accept that you believe Bev was unfairly treated but that you are not supporting and calling for the continuation of turning a blind eye to corruption.



jc

Zombrex

Originally posted by Cork
But, Beverly Flynn may be sanctioned for something that She may have done prior to being elected to public office.

Do you honestly think that our elective representatives should be allowed do what every they want, illegal or legal, before they get into office and then once in office they start with a clean slate? Are you serious?

Our TDs are supposed to be above board and not the kind of people who believe (at any time) that it is acceptable to encourage people to avoid paying tax.

What is even worse is that she said RTE were lying and it was then proven in court that they weren't.

Would anyone what someone like her representing them or the public interest?

(BTW yes I have problems with Sinn Fein and who they have in the party, before someone points that out)

Cork

Originally posted by Wicknight
Do you honestly think that our elective representatives should be allowed do what every they want, illegal or legal, before they get into office and then once in office they start with a clean slate? Are you serious?

They are no procedures to investigate TDs before they get into office. I think that they may need a tax clearence certificate & delare their interests alright.

Thats all it will take from you Cork. Call for them to be dealt with by the law, rather than Bev being let off like they were, and I will actually believe that you are genuine.

Yes, Bonkey - People are entitled to due process. TDs are subject to the laws of this country like the rest of us and rightly so.

I am not turning a blind eye to corruption but if standards on ethics are to be monitored - they have to be applied accross all public representatives.

star gazer

originally posted by Cork
I am not turning a blind eye to corruption but if standards on ethics are to be monitored - they have to be applied accross all public representatives.

Ok. Do you think that Bertie Ahern is wrong to say that she should be expelled from the fianna fail party as well as the fianna fail parliamentary party?

Cork

Ok. Do you think that Bertie Ahern is wrong to say that she should be expelled from the fianna fail party as well as thef ianna fail parliamentary party ?

I think that expulsion fianna fail parliamentary party would have been sufficent but that is just my opinion.

But Bertie is entitled to his opinions as well. I think that it is to be decided upon during the week.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
I think that expulsion fianna fail parliamentary party would have been sufficent but that is just my opinion.

Why? YOu think she's guilty enough to be kicked out of the parliamentary party, but that kicking her out of the party in toto would be unreasonable?

Only a post or two ago you were saying that it was completely unjust and unreasonable for her to be kicked out of the Parliamentary Party, and that because we suffered other crooks we shouldn't be singling her out.

Make up your mind Cork. What should be done to her?

jc

Villain

Well She got the boot from the parliamentary party
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0504/flynnb.html

And she got the boot from the whole party last night when the national council voted 81 to 5 that it didn't want her.
Story here . I found the speech she gave last night proclaiming that she will always remain a daughter of Fianna Fáil to be quite quaint.
By the looks of the support she had outside the Dáil, this lady will probably top the poll in her constituency, at the next running.
It goes to show, that what a politician does for you as the constituent personally and the name that he or she gets for being helpfull counts for more than a whiff of amorality regarding taxes.

nlgbbbblth

Originally posted by Earthman

By the looks of the support she had outside the Dáil,

what a bunch of losers

Cork

Are political supporters not allowed to support their local TD?

Who will be brought to account for the latest banking scandal?

A bank that was bailed out by the Labour/FG government of the 1980's - when this country was in economic meltdown?

But - we need a watchdog to investigate TDs. Issues like link need investigation.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
Are political supporters not allowed to support their local TD?

Who has suggested that they shouldn't be allowed?

Who will be brought to account for the latest banking scandal?

Ah yes. Back to the same old, same old.

Yet another thread where you continue to completely ignore the fact that this has already been answered, and instead of tackling the answer which was offered, you just re-pose the question.

Are you living in some vain hope that people are too stupid to realise that you're repeating yourself Cork, or that they'll get tired posting hte same replies to the same questions time after time after time...eventually leaving just you making just your side of the argument, so that it might finally seem to be convincing some people?

Or is there some other reason that this cycle of repetition is continuing?

But - we need a watchdog to investigate TDs. Issues like link need investigation.

And until we have it???? We should just continue accepting corruption in every form, rather than dealing with some of it????

Then again...why am I not surprised to see a FF supporter insisting that its not right to crack down on anything detrimental to the party when there are other criminals getting away with other crimes.

jc

Cork

Originally posted by bonkey
Then again...why am I not surprised to see a FF supporter insisting that its not right to crack down on anything detrimental to the party when there are other criminals getting away with other crimes.

jc [/B]

Bonkey - I think standards should be applied accross the board and they should be applied swiftly. I think the present tribunerals will drag on for years. We need better methods of investigation that deliver findings swiftly.

what a bunch of losers

I was actually responding to the above comment about those who turned out to support Beverly Flynn. This comment is 100% unfair.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
Bonkey - I think standards should be applied accross the board and they should be applied swiftly.

I don't disagree Cork.

What I have a problem with is your continued insistence that it is those who have been sanctioned who are being treated unfairly by the current system, rather than those who have escaped sanction for their ill-chosen activities.

When you start calling for more to be ousted like Beverly, rather than for Beverly to be left alone because others were, I'll accept your call for standards as being genuine. Until that point, its a call for supporting corruption in the interim - nothing more and nothing less.

I was actually responding to the above comment about those who turned out to support Beverly Flynn. This comment is 100% unfair.

Thats slightly different to insinuating that someone suggested they shouldn't be allowed to support her....which was your original comment.

As for it being 100% unfair or not..... Yet again, you are defending the guilty and those who would support them by saying it is 100% unfair to criticise them.

Let me guess....its unfair to criticise them because tehre are others who haven't been punished for their wrongdoings, and so Beverly shouldn't be criticised for hers, nor her supporters for happily accepting said wrongdoings?

jc

While we are on the subject of Beverly...
the little matter of her legal costs ( circa: a couple of million)...
I read in the weekend papers that her new partner ( ie the one she is dating and who is building a huge house for them to move in together ) is a multi millionaire builder.
His business is worth10-15 million alone apparently.
He is widely expected to pay the legal bill for his lover, so a by - election due to he bankruptcy is very un likely.

De velara must be turning in his grave for a daughter of Fianna Fáil to be flouting catholic marriage laws like this... ( if he hasn't done flips already over Bertie :P )

spongebob

Originally posted by Cork
We have ethics committee and register of interests that TDs comply with. But, Beverly Flynn may be sanctioned for something that She may have done prior to being elected to public office.

No. She was sanctioned for her stupidity .

She took a court case in the hope that RTE would settle. They did not. She lost .

Then she appealed it. She lost. 2 lots of bad publicity for the party nationally .

Finally she gave Bertie an excuse to appear decisive for the first time ever (along with Dempsey and Fahy ) by sanctioning her. He caught the FF zeitgeist. They are not all shysters.

Enough, out. Its a Mayo problem now.

M

Ryvita

Originally posted by Wicknight
Who has been allowed to stay in a government party after it emerge that they encouraged people to break the law?

Em, Liam Lawlor? Well he's still a member of Fianna Fáil. Far more contentious than Bev if you ask me.

Mighty_Mouse

I actually had a little sympathy for the woman originally but OMG has been so bloody stupid. It just typifies the old FF philosophy that they own the powers that be and everything will work out because…………………………..sure everyone was doing it!!!!!!!

It is harsh that she has been completely removed from the party but at the end of the she has just completed one of the greatest acts of pig-headiness ever seen in Irish politics. Did she think there would be no consequences?

I am completely dumb-founded how anyone could publicly support this woman. For me its not the fact that she encouraged the rich and wealthy not to pay tax but that she lied through her teeth for all these years. The whole thing is just very wrong.