Mayday. Still believe the media?

bobbyjoe

Does anyone else feel disturbed about how wrong the media got this whole Mayday thing?

There have been many over the top headlines the last few weeks over what turned out to be a tiny scuffle and a chance for the Guards to test their new toy.

As Johnny Rotten said "ever get the feeling your being cheated?"

Sky news looped the same piece over and over (how long was the actual trouble bit? I reckon less than two minutes, that the best they could find?)
Why were Sky News calling them Anti-Eu protestors?
I heard "the EU ceremony went ahead despite rioters" ; the ceremony was finished before the protest started, and fair play to them but I don't think anyone there thought they could disrupt the ceremony
How can we believe anything on that channel (though I was never a fan)

On Saturday the Star "newspaper" headline was Dublin City No-Go zone, American citizens warned to keep out!!!WTF? Looking out the window (onto Dame Street) all I saw were shoppers and a few protesters. (Exactly like a normal Saturday really)

My point being was the whole exercise:
to scare away the families and "normal" marchers.
to get ready for the Bush visit
to get Dubliners used to being water cannoned off THEIR STREETS?
Are we being groomed to dismiss any protestors are crusty hippies and ignore whatever issue they are protesting about?

My point being was the whole exercise:
to scare away the families and "normal" marchers.
to get ready for the Bush visit
to get Dubliners used to being water cannoned off THEIR STREETS?
Are we being groomed to dismiss any protestors are crusty hippies and ignore whatever poing they are protesting about?

1) Scare away marchers? If they wanted that all they'd need to do would have Police Dogs, ravage a few people. There was no extreme display of power by the Gardai. They treated with the troublemakers, and any protestors that didn't move away from the police barriers. If I see a police wall, marching towards me i have the intelligence to know to move out of the way.

2) Bush Visit. perhaps. I daresay the gardai wanted to make an impression. As much as i dislike Bush, The gardai displaying the ability to hold back violent protestors was shown well, and needed to hold some of these "peaceful activists" in place.

3) Dublin is owned by the State and all its people not just Dubliners. besides how many Dubliners were actually hit by the water Cannon? How many of these protestors were actually from Dublin or Ireland for that matter?

4) We've already been groomed for that by the past actions of protestors. You see, most people (sorry, the people I personally know) already view protestors as being troublemakers. The Gardai don't have to advertise it. We've (I and the people i've spoken to abt this) have already come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a peaceful protest. Sure there's "innocent" protestors, but most protestors seem more concerned with damaging property or disparaging the Gardai/State than actually peacefully marching abt their objectives.

Does anyone else feel disturbed about how wrong the media got this whole Mayday thing?

Do you not feel concerned abt Indymedia's take on this? Or other forms of media which point out the Gardai performing badly? cause I'm concerned abt both sides. You're both involved in a propaganda war, and us "normal" people are caught in the middle.

bobbyjoe

Regarding point 1.
I meant did the news reports about thousands of wombles, gass attacks etc scare people who wanted to protest but didn't go, out of a fear which turned out to be unjustified.

100,000 people marched in the Anti War march. The turnout for the next one will probably be bigger. Will pictures of water cannons (which were totaly unnecessary) turn moderate protestors off marching against him?

I didn't canvass the people around me as to where they were from. Mostly Dubs I'd say from a very unscientific guess from the accents I heard. Dosen't matter where they are from anyway. Why weren't they allowed get to the gates make some noise a few speeches and go home? (There were more Guards etc than protestors). Why stop and force them to turn around? Display of force?

the past actions of protestors.

There been remarkably little trouble at protests in this country. (I take it your talking about the reclaim the strees protest where the Guards attacked marchers) Why do you and your friends see all protestors as trouble makers? Don't want to sound like the X Files here but "Isn't that what they want you to think?"

Ever been to a protest? I was there on Saturday and I can tell you that what happened and what ended up on Sky News were two very different things.

So there is no such thing as a peaceful protest?? Where do you get that impression?

most protestors seem more concerned with damaging property or disparaging the Gardai/State than actually peacefully marching abt their objectives

Haven't seen any reports of property damage, 99% of people there were

peacefully marching abt their objectives

Both sides use propaganda but I can publish ideas, stories or eye witness accounts on Indymedia can I do that with Sky News? Who controls that?

I meant did the news reports about thousands of wombles, gass attacks etc scare people who wanted to protest but didn't go, out of a fear which turned out to be unjustified.

True enough. Oddly enough its possible the reason why the fears didn't materialise was because the Gardai were so prepared.

100,000 people marched in the Anti War march. The turnout for the next one will probably be bigger. Will pictures of water cannons (which were totaly unnecessary) turn moderate protestors off marching against him?

Doubtful. You see, if people act within the confines of the law, there should be no trouble. At least i might be naive enough to believe that.

AS for the water cannon, it was justified in the factor of missiles being thrown at the Gardai. If it was a matter of the cannon being fired at completely non-violent marchers for no reason i'd agree with you. The people hit by this, were those who waited by the Police barrier, or tried to cause trouble.

Dosen't matter where they are from anyway.

You mentioned Dubliners specifically. Rather than protestors.

Why weren't they allowed get to the gates make some noise a few speeches and go home? (There were more Guards etc than protestors). Why stop and force them to turn around? Display of force?

I don't know. Maybe you could ask the Gardai?

There been remarkably little trouble at protests in this country. (I take it your talking about the reclaim the strees protest where the Guards attacked marchers) Why do you and your friends see all protestors as trouble makers? Don't want to sound like the X Files here but "Isn't that what they want you to think?"

No you see, I'm recalling the avtivists and protestors that i knew in college, and while i travelled around. Very few peaceful, activists or protestors. The majority had extreme views, and tended towards the violent answers to their demands. So, thats where my opinions come from.

Ever been to a protest? I was there on Saturday and I can tell you that what happened and what ended up on Sky News were two very different things.

Oddly enough I have. Not since College admittedly, but then I got tired of the same crap being spewed left right and centre. The State & Capatalists are to be blamed for all the worlds woes, yada, yada, yada.

You were there? But I thought you said Looking out the window (onto Dame Street) all I saw were shoppers and a few protesters. (Exactly like a normal Saturday really)

bobbyjoe

True enough. Oddly enough its possible the reason why the fears didn't materialise was because the Gardai were so prepared.

So there was a gass/bio terror attack and 3,000 Anarchists on the way but they canceled cos the Guards were so well prepared. OK!!!

If it was a matter of the cannon being fired at completely non-violent marchers for no reason i'd agree with you

The cannon was fired at completely non-violent protestors.
Very few missiles were thrown. I saw three or four cans.

The majority had extreme views, and tended towards the violent answers to their demands. So, thats where my opinions come from

So your opinions of all protestors comes from people you knew in college? Well that sums that up then no other opinion possible.

Yes I was there so I might know a bit more about what happened than someone sitting on the couch with Sky News.
Was at Dame Street at two the protest started at six can do more than one thing in a day!!

Meh

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
The cannon was fired at completely non-violent protestors.
Very few missiles were thrown. I saw three or four cans.

You're contradicting yourself here. Either the protestors were completely non-violent or cans were thrown. You can't have it both ways.

gandalf

A few things here I though the Gardai handled things quite well myself. I attended several antiwar marchs last and they were good natured bar a few muppets throwing paint bombs at Leinster House.

I think the media sensationalised things a fair bit and they were hoping for a riot. It wouldn't of surprised me if a "Sky News Entertainment" reported paid some tossers to start chucking things ala "Drop the Dead Donkey" style.

The Gardai's new toy didn't impress me at all. They obviously had it on "wimpy crusty" setting and not "soccer hooligan" like the last Euro Championship. I could have sworn they threw the tattooed hooligans at least 20 feet

Gandalf.

article6

So there was a gass/bio terror attack and 3,000 Anarchists on the way but they canceled cos the Guards were so well prepared. OK!!!

Violent protestors can read newspapers too. Why shouldn't they stay away if the Gardaí are prepared?

The cannon was fired at completely non-violent protestors.

Presumably standing in the middle of groups of violent protestors? We saw the footage. Some of us were there. We saw them.

So your opinions of all protestors comes from people you knew in college? Well that sums that up then no other opinion possible.

If we don't judge people/political movements by experience, what do we judge them by? Hearsay? This "media" you criticise? Sometimes, we have to make up our minds based on what we know.

BuffyBot

The majority had extreme views, and tended towards the violent answers to their demands. So, thats where my opinions come from.

Bit unfair to tar all with the same brush isnt it?

bobbyjoe

You're contradicting yourself here. Either the protestors were completely non-violent or cans were thrown. You can't have it both ways

Not really, maybe you missunderstood. People behaving in a non-violent way at a legitimate protest, outside of throwing range, were still soaked.

This thread is going off topic anyway there's been plenty of discussion elsewhere about who did what.

The posts on boards.ie are showing loads of different opinions about what happened because of course we all saw it from different sources.

My point (and its shown in the replies here) is that a hysteria can develop around events, branding people who have legitimate concerns scum and hooligans.
Its a worrying precedent that an atitude has developed that anyone protesting about anything, deserves to be assaulted and their protest banned!

Goodshape

I saw more 'missiles' being thrown at last years Witinness fesitival in fairness.

MarcusGarvey

Originally posted by Goodshape
I saw more 'missiles' being thrown at last years Witinness fesitival in fairness.

Yeah but you had to pay 60 quid to do that. Capitalist bastards.

Brerrabbit

My point (and its shown in the replies here) is that a hysteria can develop around events, branding people who have legitimate concerns scum and hooligans.
Its a worrying precedent that an atitude has developed that anyone protesting about anything, deserves to be assaulted and their protest banned!
.

I agree, many people I had talked to seemed to think that trouble being started by protestors was a given (Which - although I was not there myself- appears not to be the case) these people (My friends mostly- intelligent and articualte all) also seemed to relish the idea of the gardai cracking skulls.

Certainly the footage on sky news seemed to be at 90 degrees to reality.
Also in all the hysteria about crowd control and the potential for violence, despite the yards of editorials about the danger of these protestors etc etc. there seemed to be very little coverage given to the issues the protestors were trying to bring up.

To be honest I don't think we can really rely on the media to provide us with a clear picture of what is going on in the world. (Stems from a lot of stuff not just this - although this prove=ides a nice fairly clear cut example of sensationalism gone mad and even, lets face it, an kind of thought control, employed by mainstream media. (Although I'm not certain that indymedia provide a more unbiased view it certianly seems to be clearer than that given in the mainstream media)

Sorry about the lack of coherence, I'm wrecked. I'm more than willing to defend any of the points I made here ...in about 20 hours that is I've recovered from the "exam from the devils scrotum" which starts in about 8 hours.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
Does anyone else feel disturbed about how wrong the media got this whole Mayday thing?

There have been many over the top headlines the last few weeks over what turned out to be a tiny scuffle and a chance for the Guards to test their new toy.

As Johnny Rotten said "ever get the feeling your being cheated?"

I very much believe that the Gardai are solely responsible for ensuring what was predicted to happen, not happening!! It was perfectly conceivable that what happend in Genoa and London previously could have happened here in Dublin.

Whether if would have happened it the Gardai were not present in such numbers is impossible to say. Its pretty safe to say that there would have been more trouble only for all the hype. The majority of people who turned up were peaceful. Maybe the people who planned to cause the trouble stayed away due to the Garda and Army presence?

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
Sky news looped the same piece over and over (how long was the actual trouble bit? I reckon less than two minutes, that the best they could find?)
Why were Sky News calling them Anti-Eu protestors?
I heard "the EU ceremony went ahead despite rioters" ; the ceremony was finished before the protest started, and fair play to them but I don't think anyone there thought they could disrupt the ceremony
How can we believe anything on that channel (though I was never a fan)

You are probably going to feel very stupid after I say this. The single camera that Sky News had covering the main protest was damaged by a water cannon. This was actually shown live on Sky News. the reason they kept looping the scenes is that they had nothing else to show!!!

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
On Saturday the Star "newspaper" headline was Dublin City No-Go zone, American citizens warned to keep out!!!WTF? Looking out the window (onto Dame Street) all I saw were shoppers and a few protesters. (Exactly like a normal Saturday really)

As I said before. A number of close friends are Gardai, one of who was actually in the front line beside the Water cannon. A number of weeks before the hype surrounding the protests started to appear in the papers, he suggested avoiding the city as he was absolutely adament there was going to be serious trouble.

There was also numerous flyers scattered around the city and stickers with various threatning messages printed on them. One of the stickers had the image of a petrol bomb printed on it. The cities shops were no where near as busy as on a normal saturday, especially considering the weather!

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
The cannon was fired at completely non-violent protestors.
Very few missiles were thrown. I saw three or four cans.

You should stop now while you still have some self-respect! How can people who are throwing missiles be non-violent?

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
The posts on boards.ie are showing loads of different opinions about what happened because of course we all saw it from different sources.

How can you get an accurate reflection of what is happening when you are surrounded by hundreds/thousands of people. Something could have happened 20 feet away and you would of not known about it. Someone beside you could have thrown a missle while you looked the other way and you wouldnt have seen it happen, thus thinking it all passed off peacefully! While on the other hand, the people watching of tv cameras, closed circuit cameras, from vantage points and from the air would have a far better overall picture of what was actually happening.

Victor

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Maybe the people who planned to cause the trouble stayed away due to the Garda and Army presence?

LOL. If anything they though "damn only 5,000 cops, no way we can have a decent riot with that few." Note that for a major security alert that many countries would have 20,000+ police on duty.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by Victor
LOL. If anything they though "damn only 5,000 cops, no way we can have a decent riot with that few." Note that for a major security alert that many countries would have 20,000+ police on duty.

LOL fair point, if we were in mainland Europe and we had a population of 60 million. Getting to Dublin from mainland Europe is no where near as easy as it is getting to Genoa. Considerably more effort to travel + considerably less options to gain access = considerably less trouble makers!

Memnoch

I'd have to agree that the media did engage in a lot of scare mongering tactics before the protests.

saying that it was this scaremongering that actually prevented any serious trouble is a very circular arguement.

its sad that the real issues the protesters were trying to bring up didn't recieve the coverage that they deserved.

but as some would point out, that was the general idea of this whole scaremongering from the start anyways.

Hobbes

Sky news played a loop over and over because when the water cannon hit the camera man on the live feed it destroyed the camera.

BuffyBot

One of the stickers had the image of a petrol bomb printed on it.

So those stickers with the big missile dropping down from the sky means we're going to get hit by a nuclear device (albeit one surrounded by a big red circle with a line through it). A sticker does not equate to anything close to proof that riots were an inevitable outcome.

Bit unfair to tar all with the same brush isnt it?

So your opinions of all protestors comes from people you knew in college? Well that sums that up then no other opinion possible

Not really. You see, I look at these peaceful protests and I wonder what the hell its all about. A group of people come together to protest against a number of issues in a peaceful manner. And I have no problem with that. The problem I have is that these protestors believe that their protest will remain peaceful despite allowing violent fringes to partake.

My comment was in regards to activists which tend to be the more extreme elements of protestors. The normal protestor I have very little problems with, however, all of these protests pull these troublemakers together, and apparently, its the Gardai's fault that this happens.

Also, my opinions are drawn from the people i have met, both in college and afterwards. Just as i daresay most posters opinions are drawn.

BuffyBot

The problem I have is that these protestors believe that their protest will remain peaceful despite allowing violent fringes to partake.

I guess it depends on your definition of "allow" then. As they don't have any law enforcement powers they can't really stop people from attending, can they?

bobbyjoe

You are probably going to feel very stupid after I say this. The single camera that Sky News had covering the main protest was damaged by a water cannon. This was actually shown live on Sky News. the reason they kept looping the scenes is that they had nothing else to show!!!

Not really, you have to admit a scuffle was portrayed as a riot using pictures and commentary.

You should stop now while you still have some self-respect! How can people who are throwing missiles be non-violent?

Never said that pay attention. As has been said more missiles were thrown at witnness, it was a tame, non-event despite what your telly told you.

Just next time are we to believe what were told?

I guess it depends on your definition of "allow" then. As they don't have any law enforcement powers they can't really stop people from attending, can they?

I wasn't going to reply to this, but then changed my mind.

The organisers of these events are bringing together people for the purpose of a peaceful march. They "know" that the more violent fringes will come along to join the party, and will almost definetly create some form of trouble. By organising such an event with these people in mind, they're creating an event that will almost definetly turn somewhat violent, which in turn cause the Police/Gardai to participate.

I, personally, thinks that this makes those organisers and those participating in the event responsible that the event goes off without a hitch. That these participants are responsible for the march/protest remaining peaceful.

They may not have the power to physically stop people from attending, since they've chosen to make this a public event, but they can organise the event with the co-operation of the Gardai, and/or the restriction of certain groups from the March. Perhaps publicly stating that you don't want the more violent groups to participate. At least then, people like myself, can stop viewing protests/marches as ways to discredit the Gardai.

Sand

Why weren't they allowed get to the gates make some noise a few speeches and go home? (There were more Guards etc than protestors). Why stop and force them to turn around? Display of force?

Whose to say theyd stop at the gates? The protest organisers refuse to condemn or take any responsibility for the actions of those who take part in their protests. Theres no reason to believe that they are willing or able give any reasonable undertaking that a protest will be peaceful. As such the Gardai must take steps to ensure the security of visiting dignitaries is absolute. Thats why they were stopped there, and forced to turn around.

I very much believe that the Gardai are solely responsible for ensuring what was predicted to happen, not happening!! It was perfectly conceivable that what happend in Genoa and London previously could have happened here in Dublin.

I agree - The Gardai did an excellent job, both on the day and in the leadup arresting potential trouble makers. Its a credit to the Gardai and their professionalism that there was so little trouble. After the demonising of the Gardai for the RTS riots, some praise is well deserved.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by BuffyBot
So those stickers with the big missile dropping down from the sky means we're going to get hit by a nuclear device (albeit one surrounded by a big red circle with a line through it). A sticker does not equate to anything close to proof that riots were an inevitable outcome.

What interpretation would you take then? Do you suggest the wheoever it was who printed, distributed and pasted these stickers around the city just done it for the craic? Maybe they just done it to created a discussion point on boards.

Get real. Have a look at the sticker attached and see what you think?

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
Not really, you have to admit a scuffle was portrayed as a riot using pictures and commentary.

Was this the intention? They are a news channel that depends on viewers. Did they have a political reason for showing that particular footage or were they simply showing the most dramatic scenes in order to get the viewers they need?

Some peole seem to be implying that there was collusion between the goverment and the media to make the protestors look bad? What influence does our goverment have on Sky News?

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by klaz
I wasn't going to reply to this, but then changed my mind.

The organisers of these events are bringing together people for the purpose of a peaceful march. They "know" that the more violent fringes will come along to join the party, and will almost definetly create some form of trouble. By organising such an event with these people in mind, they're creating an event that will almost definetly turn somewhat violent, which in turn cause the Police/Gardai to participate.

I, personally, thinks that this makes those organisers and those participating in the event responsible that the event goes off without a hitch. That these participants are responsible for the march/protest remaining peaceful.

They may not have the power to physically stop people from attending, since they've chosen to make this a public event, but they can organise the event with the co-operation of the Gardai, and/or the restriction of certain groups from the March. Perhaps publicly stating that you don't want the more violent groups to participate. At least then, people like myself, can stop viewing protests/marches as ways to discredit the Gardai.

Here here. The organisers of the protests just seem to shrug their shoulders when there is violence and happily move on to the next capital city to arrange a new protest!

pork99

Originally posted by Sand
I agree - The Gardai did an excellent job, both on the day and in the leadup arresting potential trouble makers. Its a credit to the Gardai and their professionalism that there was so little trouble. After the demonising of the Gardai for the RTS riots, some praise is well deserved.

Absolutely, they did a good job.

If you accuse them of overdoing security you must remember that the Gardai and the Defence Forces have to prepare for ANYTHING that could possibly go wrong. To criticise them on that basis is a bit like saying "well we have not had any major fires for the last week do we really need all those fire stations?"

bobbyjoe

It was perfectly conceivable that what happend in Genoa and London previously could have happened here in Dublin

Get a grip!!!!
There were 250,000 people in Genoa, less than 1,000 at Farmleigh.
Basic research and common sense would show that nothing like that was going to happen.

About Sky News getting it so wrong, it was a simple story blown out of proportion. I know the couch potatoes like to see some aggro but why turn a scuffle into a riot and report it so wrong (see first post).

If they can mess that up so badly whats their reporting from Iraq or anywhere else like. I know this generation are pretty media savvy and do take things with a pinch of salt but blatent lies broadcasted as truth should worry us all.

Get a grip!!!!

*Grips Armchair*

There were 250,000 people in Genoa, less than 1,000 at Farmleigh.
Basic research and common sense would show that nothing like that was going to happen

Where do you get this from? A crowd of twenty can start a riot, inflaming others to join. A 1,000 people can still do alot of damage, to both other people and property. They're still a threat should they decide to become violent.

Sure, we weren't likely to experience the kind of Rioting that happened before, but did you know before this protest happened that 10k protestors weren't going to arrive? I didn't see anyone posting a list of people that were going to come....

About Sky News getting it so wrong, it was a simple story blown out of proportion. I know the couch potatoes like to see some aggro but why turn a scuffle into a riot and report it so wrong (see first post).

<Shrugs> Oddly enough its dramatising an event. I've seen the webmasters at Indymedia doing the exact same thing. Its worrying, but, theres not a hell of a lot you can do abt it. Even without the Media generating scaremongering, the protestors are their own worst enemies at creating fear/distrust of protests/marches.

bobbyjoe

*Grips Armchair*

LOL

Some peole seem to be implying that there was collusion between the goverment and the media to make the protestors look bad? What influence does our goverment have on Sky News?

Don't think its as sophisticated as collusion just lazy journalism. They use the most dramatic pictures to get more viewers, thats a whole other arguement about news and entertainment.

Prime ministers responsible for massacres in Iraq were in our city at the weekend wined and dined and didn't hear so much as a whistle of protest. Thats my problem!

Of course Indymedia are taking things from their angle too but you can log onto and publish your opinion their or comment on what others say. Whats the interaction with Sky? Vote on Bechams new haircut.