Bitstream Port Transfer (what happens in practise)

spongebob

= Change from Eircom DSL to some other DSL (or some other DSl to some other DSL or to Eircom) with NO real break in service . It came in in Late January on the order of Comreg.

Has anybody gone thru this process in the past 3 months or so and how was it for u ? I've been asked about it by someone who is afraid of a major service outage if they try to change and it goes pear shaped.

It used to be that if you ceased Eircom and applied for IOL the whole thing was a sorry mess with Ports blocked and whatnot and a 3 week outage, it SHOULD happen in hours now.

Thoughts and experiences please.

TIA

M

jonski

Eircom says it can't do a port transfer from UTV back to them .

oscarBravo

Tell ComReg - my understanding was that they are required to do this, and saying that they can't just isn't good enough.

Besides, technically speaking surely it's a no-brainer? I would have thought that, at most, it required moving a patch lead from one physical port to another.

jonski

Just filled out one of the comreg online query forms , lets see if I get a reply

spongebob

If you do find a sentient being in Comreg could you ask them to describe the prcedure for Bitstream Port Transfer ...... say from UTV to IOL by way of example.... and also ask how long each step should take .

The current situation where it could take 2 or 3 months to get from

UTV > Eircom

and then start the process again from

Eircom > IOL

Is hardly conducive to competition or choice of any sort. Sorting this kinda thing is what regulators are supposed to do .

M

jonski

might be able to update this given the reply I just got from IOL


>>Many thanks for your email. We would require you to complete a DSL Transfer form along with your application in order for us to transfer your service from UTV. This should ensure that you have no downtime. <<

jonski

and then again another update from IOL


>>I have sent the form along with an application out to you today. Also, I have been advised today that it is possible the transfer form may not be accepted once you have a cancellation request in with UTV. If this is the case we would have to submit a new broadband order which may result in some downtime. However we will submit the DSL Transfer form and advise once we are notified.
<<


I'm actually posting this in 3 different threads but I suppose if someone did a search this one would be the most likely viewed .

oscarBravo

Originally posted by jonski
Also, I have been advised today that it is possible the transfer form may not be accepted once you have a cancellation request in with UTV. If this is the case we would have to submit a new broadband order which may result in some downtime.

Now that's just bloody-minded bureaucracy. :mad:

jonski

Muck Muck Muck ,

always with the " e-mail phil nolan " thingy so with that in mind , transcript as follows.

>Mr. Stapleton

Thank you for your e-mail. We have referred your query to the Head of Broadband and he will follow-up your query and revert to you as soon as possible.

Regards.

Alwyin Mannion
PA to Dr. Philip Nolan.

---

Original Message

---

From: John Stapleton
Sent: 13 July 2004 15:50
To: phil.nolan@eircom.ie
Subject: Bitstream Port Transfer ?


Hi ,

I was given this e-mail address as a last resort on www.Boards.ie .

I am at the moment a customer of UTV for my Broadband . My contract is up on the 13th of august and for proformance and relibility plus single billing I wanted to move my business back to Eircom , but with as little/or none downtime . I have been reading articles about bitstream port transfers , which comreg had asked to be put in place but no one in Eircom seems to be able to tell me anything definitive , with most of the people I have spoken to in Eircom saying it was not possible . Strangely enough Esat/iol say it is and are willing to do this for me .

I was wondering if you could clarify Eircoms position on this for me .

Kind Regards

John.<<

jonski

got this in the post this morning from esat

http://www.jonstapleton.utvinternet.com/transfer.htm

just in case anyone wanted to see what they were about

John.

Iago

if you have fulfilled the terms of your contract you can transfer without loss of service.

e.g eircom have a 12 month contract, during the first 12 months you can't transfer without loss of service as you have not seen out your contract. In month 13 and subsequent months you can transfer without loss of service, providing you have paid your bills etc.

in the first 12 months there may be exceptional circumstances that would warrant a transfer being allowed but this would be dependent on the losing operator agreeing to it and may not be seemless.

on the other hand once you request a cancellation your line will be deactivated and you will have to wait for it to be reactivated, which could take anything from 2 weeks to 2 months!!

jonski

My contract ends on the 13th of august , I do not wish to renew it as it doesn't meet my needs , so I have informed my ISP of this . I want to move to Eircom or IOL so I am hoping for no downtime .

Iago

well if your ISP starts the cancellation process you will have downtime, your best bet is to wait until the 12th august and contact the new provider you want to switch to, fill in a transfer form and let them handle it.

It will mean being with your current provider for an extra week or so but you won't get any downtime..

jonski

Further to Iago's comments ( and the doubt in my mind ) I contacted UTV and told the girl in admin that I didn't actually want a cancelation order on my account but I wanted to switch to another provider (probably Eircom) . This , she told me was the first time that she had heard of someone in the south trying this but it was no problem in the north and she would change the note left in my account to reflect same .

I am now going to phone Eircom and see what they say .

John

kin9pin

Originally posted by jonski
This , she told me was the first time that she had heard of someone in the south trying this

You'd better tell her to get used to it. I have a feeling you'll be the first of many!

jonski

jonski wrote:

Just filled out one of the comreg online query forms , lets see if I get a reply

well that was a quick reply , only too a month :rolleyes:

anyway here goes

Dear Mr Stapleton,

I refer again to your email of 6 July last.

A bitstream port transfer process has been introduced at a wholesale
level to allow consumers to seamlessly move from one provider to
another, (subject to the particular contract terms and conditions).

An operator must first be availing of eircom's bitstream product and
also signed a contract amendment to sign up to the transfer process.

I hope this answers your query.

Best Regards,

Paul Brennan
Consumer Management

Commission for Communications Regulation

jonski

This has not been easy ! full update tomorrow hopefully , after much frustration I am almost there , but alot of phone time is involved .

Eircom seem to be doing this for the very first time , and learning as they go

spongebob

Good God, you gave them over a months notice too.

Tell Phil that you want your time and effort compensated, cc Comreg lest they forget what they are supposed to be doing.

M

jonski

When I made that last post I had been informed that I would be connected tomorrow morning . But the light came on and for the first few hours it died after about 10 minutes only to reconnect straight away . Now i have been online since about 9:30 .

jonski

OK then , off we go ,

First off this will be a straight copy and paste to the 'bitstream ' thread for other following that .


Kicked this off in earnest with an e-mail to Phil Nolan ( thanks to Muck ) at the start of July .His PA kicked it over to Head of Broadband to follow up . She in turn sent me on a transfer form to complete and kicked it on to the Order Management Unit to organize .

Between the start of July and the 13th of August ( contract end date ) I followed this up with e-mails to all the relevant people to make sure that everyone knew what was supposed to happen , including me . I have copies of all the e-mails if any one is interested in reading through them .

As the date ( 13th of August drew near ) I started to get the feeling that all was not rosy but I had been assured by all the relevant people that it would work out . Eircom said that UTV did not have to do anything , but UTv felt this was not right and in the end it turned out that UTV had received no contact from Eircom by the 13th at which point they had no choice but to send a 'cease order ' ( although marked for transfer ) onto their supplier to forward to Eircom .

This is where Eircom messed up most , they , and I will get to my theory on why shortly , had not marked the incoming cease order with my a/c details as being for transfer . So I was cut off , previous to this I had been cut off by UTV through my a/c activation but still had a green light on my modem , now I had nothing , hence I know it was deactivated .

Between the a/c cancellation by utv and the deactivation of dsl on my line a super girl in UTV called Harriett ( stand up please and take a bow ) reactivated my a/c so that I could at least connect to the internet and mail the relevant people . During this time I also started to make frantic calls to anyone that would listen and maybe help .

The Girl in Order Management Unit that was looking after ( and I use the term loosely ) was out sick , so I rang the sales team to ask there , the initial girl wasn't able to help much so I asked to speak to her supervisor , Emily (the new supergirl , yes , stand up and take a bow aswell , you deserve it ) . This girl was most apologetic and promised to look into it and get back to me , which she did and admitted that it had not been handled properly but she would do what she could and get back to me . Although , strictly speaking this was outside Emily's jurisdiction she contacted the right people and made it happen .

I am here now on Friday morning connected to Eircom , after two days downtime , could have been more had it not been for the heroic actions of Harriett and Emily .

So , how to go about it and why it happened the way it did .

It happened the way it did because I believe I am one of the first , if not the first , to do this in the south , I am certainly the first to go from UTV to anyone in the south . I know through dropped pieces of info that Eircom do have a 'Transfer Team ' , but they were away on a course this week . but Eircom were learning as they went with me also , Emily has promised to pass all the info on and says I will get a call shortly from management to explain what exactly went wrong and how , I will post that when I get it .

How do you go about it ? , very carefully , with loads of mails and phone calls to make sure everything is in place , don't except the "I'm not sure " answers , ask to speak to supervisors and always escalate it higher if you are not satisfied , DON'T come across hot and heavy , it will get you nowhere , remember these people , although they are supposed to know in our eyes , don't . In twelve months time this will probably be easier as by then everyone will know the procedure .

Enough for now , questions ? , anyone ? , ok then off to play games as this was the reason for changing over in the first place .

John

spongebob

jonski wrote:

OK then , off we go ,

Kicked this off in earnest with an e-mail to Phil Nolan at the start of July .His PA kicked it over to Head of Broadband to follow up . She in turn sent me on a transfer form to complete and kicked it on to the Order Management Unit to organize .

Between the start of July and the 13th of August ( contract end date ) I followed this up with e-mails to all the relevant people to make sure that everyone knew what was supposed to happen , including me . I have copies of all the e-mails if any one is interested in reading through them .

Well done Jonski. Lets look at the entrails shall we.

1. ALL lines are provisioned by Eircom Wholesale on behalf of either Eircom Retail or UTV (as in this example)

2. Eircom Wholesale do not have a procedure in place to accept a 'line handback' from a Retail operation , be that UTV or any other.

3. Eircom Wholesale do not have a 'reassignment process' in place to immediately pass the line to another retail operation , be that Eircom or any other.

4. Despite your having served Phil Nolan hiimself with notice , in good time, nothing was done to ensure that the Bitstream Port Transfer was executed, as per the January 2004 Comreg directive and as per your notice over 5 weeks before the event.

5. I would say that its time to esacalate to somebody far more senior in Comreg than the droid you mentioned earlier

6. The guy in charge of the NON enforcement of the Bitstream Port Transfer procedure amongst other salutary failures , is mike.byrne@comreg.ie . The same guy is in charge of the Comreg droid who took a month to acknowledge the email .....and did nothing anyway. I would cc Phil Nolan seeing as his droids were not much better, apart from Emily of course (in ADSL sales is she not) .

Mike Byrnes duties are described thus (yes, HE gave us Functional Internet Access at 0k last year so I would expect his communications to be a tad short on sentience at times )

"Market Operations handles day-to-day issues concerning the regulation of the market including such issues as interconnection, dispute resolution and unbundling the local loop. Supervision of pricing and ensuring a universal service for all consumers in respect of eircom is a principal activity of Market Operations. This Division also administers the Consumer Affairs section of the Commission for Communications Regulation."

Mail Mike Byrne and Phil Nolan every day until you get your compo for time and effort wasted , and tell us how long it takes Jonski. Do tell us how Mike explains the farce above and what he intends to do for other people who wish to change DSL carrier for whatever reason as is their right in a modern society. Its the only way they will understand that people simply won't accept incompetence and a blatant disregard for the consumer even if Comreg and Eircom are international grand masters thereof and in the Olympic finals .

M

PcP

Cheers for the info John, glad you're back up and running.
FYI I spoke to two people in IOL yesterday (Friday) afternoon about a port transfer next month and both told me that I can't transfer from UTV to them without downtime. The second guy I spoke to said they have a transfer form (which he is sending out) but it'll still be at least a week downtime and they can't guarantee anything.

decisions decisions...