want to share iol bb connection but clueless!

fizzy

i'm using the basic residential iol broadband service on my dell pc running xp. i have just bought a second hand laptop running xp (that has a nic afaik) and it would be really good if we could access the internet from both simultaneously.

i don't know if this is possible and if so i have no idea how to network the 2 computers! i know there have been lots of posts about setting up home networks and i have read a lot of them but i'm afraid a lot of it is above my head. i did a networking module at college so i understand the concepts of routers and network cards just about but i really am clueless and would really appreciate some very basic help....

my ideal scenario would be that my mum could be on the dell pc upstairs using the internet and i could be sitting downstairs with my laptop using it. so i'm thinking that a wireless setup would suit me best. my sister also has a laptop running windows millennium which sort of supports usb and she might want to get in on the action too.... the file and printer sharing apsects also appeal to me but if i could share the internet connection i'd be thrilled!

so from reading the other posts and googling, it seems i need some sort of wireless router and a wireless usb adaptor for each machine? is that correct?

but i have no idea how to proceed. i don't know if i can just go out and buy any sort for a start. will i even be able to share my iol bb connection? are there any experts out there who have done something similar and can just tell me to order x,y and z from some website/shop and plug a few things together run a few installation cds, click next several times and hey presto?

Borris

hey. i might be able to help.
what modem do u have from iol? the usb only or the black modem with the 10/100 lan and usb?
if it is the black modem, witch more than likly it is its esay to share the connections! you can opt for the wireless if you like but it can be pricy.
if it is the black modem, just pick yourslef up a 10/100 4port hub, connect the 3 computers into it via network cables (dam cheap in most pc stores) hook the 3 computers into the hub, and use the 4th port back to the 10/100 connection on the modem. and as long as you set your computers to automaticly detect dns etc you should have a nice little network. no messing with ip address's due to the fact that the black modem is a dhcp rooter!
hope that helps a little,

fizzy

thanks for the reply borris.

i have a little blue modem (zyxel prestige 630) with 2 holes at the back - one saying usb and one saying adsl - is that the right type? me thinks not

iwb

You have a few choices. First one is to use your main computer to do internet sharing. XP does it through a wizard which basically sets your computer up to do network address translation (NAT).
This takes your single public IP address and creates a range of iternal or private IP addresses you can use on your private network to get to the internet. You will need an ethernet card in your pc to do this. If you don't have one, they are quite inexpensive and not too difficult to install.
Once you go through the wizard and set up internet connection sharing, you will then need to connect the two machines together. As you will be going from machine directly to machine, you need a crossover ethernet patch cable. It isn't too important what it is, but make sure you get the crossover cable and not a normal straight through one. Once you have done all that, you should be laughing.
One thing that sucks though (from personal experience) is when the main machine needs to be rebooted, the other machines net access goes down. It may not seem like a big deal but you'd be surprised how often you reboot your windows machine.
The other way is to replace your USB modem with a DSL router. This also gets you a wireless connection easier. Wired ones can be had for under €100 new and probably quite a bit less used here on boards. They typically have four ports on the back. NAT is done inside the unit. You basically put it in place of the USB modem, plug two normal ethernet cables form it into your two computers and you are up and running.
Wireless ones are a bit more expensive but not much more. You would basically add a wireless card or adapter to each machine that is remote and can't be easily wired.

Borris

ive heard you can upgrade your modem with iolbb if you have been upgraded to iolbb pluss. think its €50, then maybe another 15 or 20 for a hub, it might be better just paying the €100 for a good 4port dhcp dsl rooter. not that the black modem from iol isnt good.
:-)

fizzy

thanks so much for the info lads! it's looking a bit clearer (and easier) now

Borris

no problem! just shout if you get stuck again

Placebo

well im still trying to get pc - 2 - laptop sharing to work.
borrowed a Wireless card of a mate, installed on pc, its a B not G, but anyway its sending the signal, brought laptop down, it finds the connection but when i press connect nothing happens, ive set them both to ad hoc (laptop has wifi intergrated) only solution now is to get a cross over, but then i gotta drill holes, which i cant, cause i need a massive drill.
DANG !
good luck fizzy.

Borris

dont know enough about wifi and that, sorry
havent got the chance to play with it

iwb

Is it XP on both machines? Microsoft is very annoying sometimes as it tries to take over things to 'simplify' them but doesn't allow you to configure things properly. When you try to connect, what actually happens? Is it nothing at all, no error messages or anything else?
Have you tried to initialte from both machines? Have you used the same settings on both for encryption and so on?
Is the wireless card in the laptop part of centrino or another type? What is the type of card in the desktop machine?
If you can't get it working with a little more effort, I would suggest you buy a wireless DSL router. It should be more straightforward and will be a more robust solution in the long run.
I just had a look on Elara and the first one I came across is a Linksys
which is 11g for €143 incl. VAT. You will probably find them cheaper too if you shop around.
PM me if you like with your number and a time and I will call you to see if we can work it out with your current hardware.

fizzy

hope you can get sorted out placebo! at least there are friendly folk here willing to help

looking at this wireless stuff - it's goin to cost a few yoyos - and knowing me i'll buy the wrong stuff and it won't even work! does anyone know if certain shops will take the stuff back if it won't work with your setup???

iwb

fizzy,
It would be fairly hard to buy the 'wrong' stuff. If you want to go wireless from scratch and you are buying everything new, just buy all from the same manufacturer to be sure.
DLink and Linksys are usually the more reliable 'budget' brands but I have seen and used all sorts of combination and they have all worked together. The only problem I have come across so far has been WEP (encryption) incompatibilities between a DLink access point and a centrino chipset on my laptop. I just use MAC filtering for security which I am happy with.

digitaldr

You'll find some good info here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152169&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

I bought the same stuff as mentioned in the above thread in anticipation of my Digiweb DSL connection but Eircom are doing some work at the exchange and I'll be into my third week of waiting on Monday - groan!

fizzy

thanks for the reassurance iwb... but i considered it a major achievement when i was able to get my dell up and running instead of paying for installation!! that's my level!!
thanks for the link digitaldr - that wizard is handy - hope you get your own connection sorted soon!

SwampThing

Did you get sorted?

If not, and you're not a million miles away, I'll give you a dig out.

I live in Naas and work in Walkinstown - if you're anywhere within an asses roar of that route, send me your info via p.m. and I'll see what I can do.

fizzy

thanks for the offer but i am pretty much sorted now and am here to post an update to confirm that sharing a broadband connection is actually pretty simple like all the friendly experts here say

i bought a Netgear DG834G 54Mbps Wireless 4-Port ADSL Router which came with a free Netgear WG511T 108Mbps Wireless CardBus Card for my laptop
http://www.dsl-warehouse.ie/product.asp?pr=DG834G&pm=1517

then i got a Netgear FA311 FastEthernet PCI Adapter for my desktop pc
http://www.dsl-warehouse.ie/product.asp?pr=NGFA311&pm=1557

total cost incl vat and delivery was 180 euro (don't know if that's good/bad!) and dsl warehouse customer service was excellent.

the netgear stuff has good instructions with it and everythign was easy to install - everything came with an installation wizard. their were a few hairy moments but only cos i didn't have a clue what i was at!

way hey i can share my iol bb connection!!! thanks a mill for all your help and advice guys i *never* thought i would get this up and running!

now the one thing i can't figure out is how to actually share my files etc - i.e. windows does not recognise any network/workgroup yet. both computers run xp home and i ran the network setup wizard on each pc but it's not working - any suggestions???

thanks a mill

shabbyroad

welcome to home networking and fair play to you for taking the time to learn how to make it work.

now the one thing i can't figure out is how to actually share my files etc - i.e. windows does not recognise any network/workgroup yet. both computers run xp home and i ran the network setup wizard on each pc but it's not working - any suggestions???

sharing your files should be straightforward. you'll need to enable file & printer sharing on each PC (use Windows Help : it's not too bad). then pick a folder and when you right-click you should go to an option that says ' sharing & security'

each PC needs to have a unique "name", you can then connect to each PC on your network by going to 'start' 'run' and typing "\\yourPCname" (without the " " marks). this will connect you to that PC and you'll see a list of all folders and printers that you have chosen to share.

Start there and let us know how you get on.

Placebo

ok guys got to wifi cards setuip ad hoc connect and it didnt work, hell with this.
I`m buying what fizzy got so i stick that Router to my pc and that free card to my laptop ( Its wifi intergrated but i reckon that wifi intergrated card is like crap) this might work better, same company. so thats it ?
my laptops upstairs and pc is downstairs, my room is above the pc room and glass windows on right to both.

heres hoping !

thanks fizzy for feedback.

iwb

Placebo,
It is always better to get that gear anyway. It will dole out IP addresses, give you a measure of security and it is stand alone, so it doesn't need to depend on any computer.
You should have absolutely no problem getting the signal to the upstairs room. I live in an apartment and can get a good signal everywhere, even outside for about 50 feet.
Best of luck.

fizzy

thanks for the pointers shabbyroad.

i actually found a previous post talking about the same problem i was having with file sharing where the firewall had messed things up.

turns out i had run the network wizards correctly, but i use zone alarm firewall on my pc and it wasn't allowing my laptop access my desktop! i suppose it's reassuring to know that it works once i added the ip addres of my laptop to the trusted computers in zone alarm it all worked - yippee!!

so i'm all up and running even though i haven't a clue about this sort of stuff. if i can do it, anyone can - i'm so glad i gave it a go! thanks for all the help guys

good luck placebo. if you're getting the same gear it's *extremely* easy to get up and running - wizards all the way let us know how you get on

Wolfie

Hiya, I just have a quick question regarding this set up with IOL.

Since the IOL BB modem connects to USB, and that is what has the phone line in it, are you still using the USB modem? I've heard people say that the router does the work of the modem and the modem is no longer needed, but I'm curious as to where the (RJ11 I think it is?) phone line plugs in, since the routers usually only have RJ45 ports?? Just something that is preventing me from understanding the whole process, any help would be appreciated!

EDIT:

Is the router that you bought an ADSL router? In other words it has the modem built into it? If so then I can understand this, but is there a way to use the USB modem with a wireless router? I dont think so? Am I on the wrong track??

iwb

Wolfie,
You are correct. A router/dsl modem combined can be bought. If you buy one without the dsl built in, you would need to have a dsl modem with ethernet interface to plug it into the ethernet wan port on the router.
It is difficult to use a usb modem to share unless you use a windows pc with 'internet connection sharing' switched on.
You can buy a router with dsl modem, 4 ethernet ports and wireless b or g built in for relatively small money now. It sometimes even has a print server built in but they are often a little flaky.

Placebo

iwb,
will be glad if you can confirm.
I have a ZyXel prestige 630 modem(one you get free with IOL), its usb It has no Ethernet port, but just to confirm
Modem ----> PC
Router ----> PC

Card ----> Laptop

router sends signal to laptop, the PC will have to be connected to the internet, yes ?

Why did Fizz by an Ethernet card then ?
Also
I have a choice of
Netgear
WG121 54Mbps Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter

and


Netgear
WG511T 108Mbps Wireless CardBus Card


i assume Adapter is more convinient for a PC TO PC rather than a PC to Laptop, and that the card would be more suitable for a laptop, also CARDBUS ? they mean PCMCIA , right ?

Thanks a million, once i`m re-assured il order this staright away.
Its a shame that i dont know much when i`m studying Networks as a subject in university at the moment :eek: 802.11 and FDDI man ! wooo

edit : i just figured, she got the ethernet to connect the Router to the pc, DOH !

Ripwave

Originally posted by Wolfie
Since the IOL BB modem connects to USB, and that is what has the phone line in it, are you still using the USB modem?

IOL used to prove USB only "modems", but they've been supplying devices with both USB and ethernet interfaces for at least the last 6 months.

I've heard people say that the router does the work of the modem and the modem is no longer needed, but I'm curious as to where the (RJ11 I think it is?) phone line plugs in, since the routers usually only have RJ45 ports?? Just something that is preventing me from understanding the whole process, any help would be appreciated!

Technically speaking, there is no such thing as a DSL modem - they are all routers or bridges. But there are lots of "broadband routers" available, that will work with any ethernet signal, whether it comes from a DSL router, or a cable internet box or a wireless internet box.

iwb

Placebo,
I think you are intending to use your pc for sharing the connection from the usb modem. This is not the best way to do it though it will work.
It might make sense for you to buy a wireless router with dsl interface as it will be one stand alone unit that doesn't need the pc in order to work. Your Zyxel 630 would then be obsolete but what the hell.
These devices start at around 100 euro now. Take a look on Komplett or Elara to start. All you need then is a wireless adaptor for the laptop. i would avoid a usb adaptor simply for convenience as the cardbus one fits into the pc without any trailing leads or boxes.
It might make sense to buy the wireless/dsl router and pc card from the same manufacturer to save compatibility problems when setting up security (which is recommended).

Placebo

ok thanks, but i`m looking for sharing the connection so people downstairs can use the net at the same time, although is this possible with wireless router with dsl interface .

iwb

If you buy something like this you will be able to hook it up to your walljack for the phone/ADSL line, patch a cable to up to four wired pc's and connect to up to 32 wireless pc's/pdas and all of them can then share your broadband connection.
There are other products out there besides linksys. Just make sure it has a DSL Interface built in aswell as wireless.

Placebo

thanks for all your help, but that way i`ll need to get cards of the same manufaturer for both laptop AND PC,
at the end of the day i think fizz`s equipment will do the job just that downstairs pc will have to stay connected 24/7 but it usually is on 24/7

thanks for the help.

Gateway router + modem = 150
Details of Linksys Wireless PC Card 802.11b = 50
Details of Linksys Wireless PCI Card 802.11b = 50

totalt = € 250 !
eek !

iwb

Sorry, I should've paid more attention to the fact that you have equipment you can use and are trying to work with that. It seems you have it figured out. Best of luck with it.
By the way, I just wrote this to help people in future. What do you guys think of it so far. Clear as mud?

Wolfie

Originally posted by iwb
Wolfie,
You are correct. A router/dsl modem combined can be bought. If you buy one without the dsl built in, you would need to have a dsl modem with ethernet interface to plug it into the ethernet wan port on the router.
It is difficult to use a usb modem to share unless you use a windows pc with 'internet connection sharing' switched on.
You can buy a router with dsl modem, 4 ethernet ports and wireless b or g built in for relatively small money now. It sometimes even has a print server built in but they are often a little flaky.

Hi Iwb,

Thanks for the info mate, and your follow up info/information on your website. I think I've got the concept clear now. My old esat modem has no ethernet port, so I guess I'll be getting a router with broadband modem/gateway built in. I like the idea of being able to surf the net on a laptop or read e-mail on my pocketpc. I was looking at the following router, which is from USR, and claims to be 100mbs (I read that that is not the case at all, and its a lot slower, but it still claims to be fast), what do you think of it?:

http://www.dsl-warehouse.co.uk/product.asp?pr=USR8054

Thanks again for your help, and fair play for putting that little howto on your website.

EDIT:

Just read the piece on the website again, and noticed that you say that 802.11g (and a) use a shared spectrum. I have a couple of cordless phones (one upstairs, one downstairs), will these eat into my bandwidth or cause much interference? Sorry for my incessant questions, its just I never even seen wireless working you see!

iwb

Make sure that it has dsl capability. This one hasn't got a dsl modem built in. Also, the 100Mbps is based on some proprietary stuff that only works with other USR clients. It really only gets probably under 30Mbps in real life anyway.
On the phone issue, find out what frequency your phone works on. 11b and g work on 2.4GHz and there can be issues if your cordless phone does also. The best way to find out if it will be an issue is try it.