Fine Gael-turning the corner

villain_97

In recent weeks it appears Fine gael and Enda Kenny have turned the corner.i thought they had a very successful Ard Fheis and appear ready to take on the Government.I like their proposal for a consumer rights wachdog and their policy on neutrality.Kenny really has grown into the role of leader.One thing is for sure we need a strong Fine Gael in this country to have any credibility left in politics.I hope they recover fully

Victor

Are they? I think the old expression "oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them" comes to mind.

sceptre

Welcome to the forum villain

(now, here comes the difficult bit...:))
We had a thread not so long ago where a few of us moaned about Fine Gael's lack of direction and Kenny's lack of a position on anything but not having a position on anything. And there was much gnashing of teeth and talk of lost opportunities for the man who looks like he's going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'm guessing your a member of Fine Gael so lest I think of you as the anti-Cork (if you don't get this, don't worry, you will if you stick around), what do you know that we've not spotted? In your opinion, how and why are Fine Gael credible as an opposition or even a future government again?

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by villain_97
I like their proposal for a consumer rights wachdog

We already have one of those and they're powerless to act.

I don't see how a government can do anything about it now since the damage has been done.

Cork

I live in a former FG stronghold. FG is a shadow of the organisation it once was.

With good government finances and a heakthy economy - FG will loose seats in the forthcoming elections.

I feel that alot of FGs trouble has to do with the economic success of the current government. Never has there been a period of such economic success in this country.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Cork
I live in a former FG stronghold. FG is a shadow of the organisation it once was.

With good government finances and a heakthy economy - FG will loose seats in the forthcoming elections.

I feel that alot of FGs trouble has to do with the economic success of the current government. Never has there been a period of such economic success in this country.

I have to agree with that. I don't belive that FF had anything to do with that success they just happened to be in Govt when the economy turned around. I wish there an alternative to FF but at the moment I don't see one.

villain_97

No I'm not a member but no many Young FGers.I think people are writing off Kenny based on Journalists like John Drennan who seems to have a personal vendetta against FG and Kenny.FG hit rock bottom as we all know in 2002.Now in the Dail we have an arrogant Government being opposed by a disjointed opposition comprising FG 's lowest number of TDs ever,a modest Labour party,the Greens and a ratbag of independants.The lack of a strong FG has weakened the parliamentary system.FG have 10,000 new members in the last 2 years and I'm seriously considering joining up also.There are issues not being tackled by other parties such as suicide,depression,crime,consumer rights that FG are talking about.

Kenny has taken a real hammering in the papers ,except the Tribune and Sunday Business post,for no apparent reason.From what I can see he is an honest politician,putting an emphasis on youth who will be good Ireland.He was right about Electronic voting all along and the Iraq war.

dathi1

I'm reading this, I'm trying to figure out the diffrence between FG and FF?

He was right about Electronic voting all along and the Iraq war.

I didn't know he was against the Shannon stopover? and the war itself?

their policy on neutrality.

Correct me if I'm wrong but contrary to what the majority of Irish people believe isn't FG pro NATO pro EU military build up? They call something like "being responsible about playing our role in Europe" etc.... Now I know the Ahearn camp in FF aren't much different but post Iraq fall out these militaristic options look a bit dated don't they?

The lack of a strong FG has weakened the parliamentary system

I do remember the last Garreth Fitzer "strong" FG tax on childrens shoes days...jezus they where a disaster.
or what about destroy the good Friday agreement Bruton with his decommissioning speech...yeah they where great.

Mighty_Mouse

No. I really really believe that FG will get slaughtered again. The problem? No direction and a wooden leader. I mean FFS Bruton, Noonon, Kenny ..............:eek: what were FG expecting? I actually have some time for Noonan as a politician but as a leader? No no no no no!

Honestly FG need radical change. They should go with someone like Denis Naughton ............someone who can string an effin sentance together without want to make you puke (kenny), fall asleep (noonan) or fight the urge to shoot the tv (bruton).

star gazer

originally posted by Victor
Are they? I think the old expression "oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them" comes to mind.

I agree and as has been said Fianna Fail had really good economic circumstances to back up their re-election. Although the argument could be made that Fine Gael were voted out of opposition.

originally posted by Cork
With good government finances and a heakthy economy - FG will loose seats in the forthcoming elections.

(this is the Cork sceptre was talking about)
I think you'll find that there are plenty of predictions out there that Fianna Fail will lose seats too and may even lose more than Fine Gael. There were a lot of promises made before the last election and it would appear that people are not that impressed with the way things turned out.

originally posted by sceptre
Fine Gael's lack of direction and Kenny's lack of a position on anything but not having a position on anything. And there was much gnashing of teeth and talk of lost opportunities for the man who looks like he's going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Yeah i think the jury is still out on Kenny and if he is to make an impact he needs to associate with some strong policies. I do agree though that he was right on electronic voting, even when the government were at the height of their condescending mode in that debate.

swiss

Policy issues aside I've usually been a tentative voter of Fine Gael. The main trouble, as far as I can see, is that they have been out of government for at least the last 10 years - link. This means that for many people, Fine Gael are not a viable alternative in government, for the reason that they lack the requisite expertise or experience to properly lead. That and the fact that Fianna Fáils terms in government have been in relatively good economic conditions means that despite the damaging fallout from various tribunals people are still prepared to vote the same turkeys back into power.

I don't agree with a some of Fine Gaels policies. For example during the last general election they seemed to abandon their usual prudent stance on issues of spending and seemed to promise lots of money to various interest groups. This is usually a narrow sighted policy that I would ascribe to Fianna Fáil.

Looking back, Fine Gael have continually lost seats since the Garrett Fitzgerald days long ago. This loss has been for the most part quite small, aside from their rather spectacular fall at the last election. I'm sure most political commentators have thier own theories about this, but I suspect that it is mostly due to the perception that they are conservative and antiquated, and that there is little real difference between them and Fianna Fáil.

I don't profess to have an intimate knowledge of Fine Gael, but from what I read of their policies, I wouldn't ascribe them as either conservative or antiquated. In fact I think the opposite is true. I don't yet know if they would be the best choice for government, but I would certainly give them an opportunity for them to demonstrate what they can do. It would at least be better than voting Fianna Fáil back IMO.

spongebob

Looking back, Fine Gael have continually lost seats since the Garrett Fitzgerald days long ago.

They are dead in Dublin....thats permanent I'd say.

Outside of Dublin they have bounced off the 2002 floor and are actually feeling quite chipper in the West , believing they will get a quote in Europe which is a good result, about 26% of the vote.

M

Tuars

Originally posted by dathi1
...or what about destroy the good Friday agreement Bruton with his decommissioning speech...yeah they where great.

The peace process hasn't been exactly a rollercoaster of progress under FF's stewardship. 6 years after the GFA and we have no executive, no decommissioning, and the moderate parties sidelined by continuous pandering to the SF/DUP wing.

Say what you like about John 'Unionist' Bruton but if you're really interested in a united Ireland (as FF 'republicans' claim to be) then you can't do it without making space for the unionists. Driving a fleet of Mercedes to the first cross-border meeting wasn't exactly the best way to start out IMHO. I'm a little sceptical about the argument that FF are the only party that can handle the North.


I agree that FG are struggling and sometimes they are their own worst enemy. However, I'm a little concerned at the freedom that FF have had to weaken other parties by abusing their position in government. e.g. the abuse of the public funds for election purposes and the release of misleading and incorrect information to the oppostion parties as input to their manifestos before the last GE.

I think FF are still the 'slightly constitutional' party.

spanner

they have such an opportunity in the next election, if they cannot get into power next time they really should give up the game.
fair enough the economy is doing ok but it is definately not down to finna fail, i am actually surprised that it hasnt gone into a spiraling downfall because of the stupidy of the current government. There is so many issues that finna fail have annoyed the government with that it even warranted bertie to be jeered at the special olympics.

i for one will be voting for ethier labour or finna geal because i belive it is time for change, not sure if they would be better than the current government but they cant do any worst than what we have now, can they?

dahamsta

Originally posted by villain_97
I think people are writing off Kenny based on Journalists like John Drennan who seems to have a personal vendetta against FG and Kenny.

I don't think people need to read a particular journalist's output or a particular periodical to decide that Kenny lacks leadership ability. I've seen him talk and although I'll admit that he has a certain magnetism about him, the actual content of his speeches, debates and interviews are as wishy-washy as the policies of the party he represents. He's weak in the Dáil and weak in the media, he's unable to express himself forcefully, and most importantly he's unable to take a position on anything without hedging his bets to cover his ass, making himself look like an ass in the process.

And I'm a Fine Gael voter, or at least I was. Coveney and Clune /may/ get my votes in the next election, but because of who they are and what they represent, not because of the party that supposedly supports them, and certainly not because of Enda Kenny. They'd probably have a better chance of my vote if they were independent, if truth be told.

Anti-Cork. I like that.

adam

villain_97

I met Enda once and was very impressed with him.He had no script and deliveded a passionate speech on suicide.I know that in the past FG have had trouble with image etc but never plicy.Bruton was not 'unionist',simply respectful that if there is to be a united Ireland it must be one acceptable to unionists.

FG's policies at the moment effect me.I'll probably be looking to buy a house in a couple of years and their plan to reduce stamp duty appeals to me.They are not pure military just in favour of ireland having a say in any future talks on a common defence.As it stands we wiould have to accept a plan that we had no say in,at least under Fine Gael we'd have an input.FG are our best hope of getting rid of arrogant Cullen,Ahern McDowell etc.Enda Kenny is a man who I think has the ability to make agood Taoiseach

dahamsta

Originally posted by villain_97
I know that in the past FG have had trouble with image etc but never plicy.

To be fair, I haven't read any Fine Gael policy documents since their election manifesto - which I read cover to cover - and I haven't done that because the manifesto was so manifestly (har har) bad. Bad isn't the word for it though, it was woeful, deplorable, embarassing, atrocious. I said this to a senior member of the party, and at least they had the decency to look embarrassed.

Perhaps their policies are better now, but if they are, they're not making a very good job of getting them across, and their attitude these days doesn't lead me to believe that they could implement them anyway. Debates in the Dáil and the media are much akin to the "you're rubber, I'm glue" guff we see between Labour and the Tories in the House of Commons and the British media; the only difference being that at least the British debates can be entertaining. And of course more of them turn up in their House.

The only way I'd support Fine Gael these days - as opposed to individual party members - is if they committed to coalition with Labour. Which is another matter that they skate around like flip-flopping fish on a quay wall.

By the way, I wasn't saying that Enda isn't a nice guy. I don't know whether he is or not, I've never met him. I just don't think he's doing very well at leading the party towards victory. Which is his job, last I looked.

adam

Cork

I think that there is little prospect of a credable alternative government to the PDs & FF.

FGs compansation to Eircom shareholders did them few favours before the last election.

Labours Baby Bond policy is another example of a similare ploy.

The live register is at an 18 month low. Government finances are strong. Public expenditure is under control.

What is required from both FG and Labour is credable policys. But FGs a la carte atitude to the recent stategic health reports - by adopting a peace meal type of atitude to them as in my openion was a mistake.

Alan Dukes is a big loss to FG as well. He had vision.

Victor

Originally posted by Cork
FGs a la carte atitude to the recent stategic health reports - by adopting a peace meal type of atitude to them as in my openion was a mistake.

Sorry is that FF or FG?

Cork

Point taken - But in the long term strong leadership and policies are required.

The best Labour has come up with was the baby bond to make sure that future adults don't start off live on an uneven playing pitch.

We need decent policies from FG and Labour - In my opinion at the minute - there does not exist an alternative government with credable policies.