Justin Barrett on Today FM now...

PaulHughesWH

Originally posted by ChipZilla
That's fair enough sceptre. I didn't know of the connection between the two names until I read your list, or if he did have something to hide. personally I think he's a despicable little ****, but like you said, his name is his business. Cheers.

My point exactly.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
The message of sane, traditional Nationalism has been lost because of stupid extremes, extremes some of you people are continuing to force upon the world.

I'm sorry, but the post I'm quoting is the first extreme viewpoint I've seen expressed in this thread. How you can equate an open attitude to multiculturalism with gulags, Nazism and communism is beyond me.

Justin Barrett is not extreme, or "far-right", or a Nazi, or anything like that. He is a sane Irish patriot, and is passionate about what he feels is the subjection of Ireland to a new form of colonialism, with more insidious cultural and political aims... i.e., cultural homogenisation, rampant urbanisation, attacks on the family.

In the build-up to enlargement I heard several reports from the accession countries describing how they took heart from Ireland's example: how we embrace the European ideal while maintaining a strong cultural identity. The two are not incompatible.

You people claim to have the last word on the fight against European federalism, when in truth you are nothing but its jackboot.

Who claimed this? Where and when?

You are all playing your own selfish role in the thought-police, enforcing a politically correct society Brussels dreams of achieving. By supporting abortion, euthanasia, and other similar issues, you aid in the continued destruction of the Catholic religion.

Who expressed support for these things? Besides, not everyone in Ireland is Catholic - is it OK for the rest of us to have an opinion?

By being so gutless in criticising the "open doors" policy after European enlargement, you have successfully allowed Germany, Italy and France to lump their asylum problems on us;

...yeah, I was trampled to death by eastern Europeans in town yesterday... :rolleyes: Besides, what has enlargement got to do with asylum seekers?

as well as endangering Irish jobs by allowing wage discrimination against "the new Europeans."

Doesn't minimum wage apply to all EU workers?

Many of you, I would guess, wouldn't mind seeing the removal of the Irish language from schools across the country, in a politically correct motion to welcome our new arrivals.

Where did you get that from? I haven't seen it mentioned on this thread.

Mind you, Dana walked herself into it nicely a couple of weeks ago on the radio - she tried to equate Irishness with the ability to speak Irish. When the interviewer asked her - repeatedly - if she meant that non-Irish speakers were less Irish than those who do, she repeatedly avoided the question.

Not that anyone from Poland would abandon their language (and rightly so) to suit any of us.

Good for them. Let's all learn from each other.

Stop advertising the death of Irish culture. Some of us want to keep it.

Me too. Who advertised it, again?

oscarBravo

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Calming down for two minutes and defining racism will reveal to you hotheads that a racist is someone who places their race and culture as superior over others; not someone who works to ensure all races cultures are equally cherished and not homogenised by some false P.C. bureaucracy.

Who's asking for homogeneity? Why do cultures have to be sealed behind borders to survive? And what's wrong with mingling cultures, exactly?

PaulHughesWH

Originally posted by oscarBravo
I'm sorry, but the post I'm quoting is the first extreme viewpoint I've seen expressed in this thread. How you can equate an open attitude to multiculturalism with gulags, Nazism and communism is beyond me. In the build-up to enlargement I heard several reports from the accession countries describing how they took heart from Ireland's example: how we embrace the European ideal while maintaining a strong cultural identity. The two are not incompatible.
Who claimed this? Where and when? Who expressed support for these things? Besides, not everyone in Ireland is Catholic - is it OK for the rest of us to have an opinion? ...yeah, I was trampled to death by eastern Europeans in town yesterday... :rolleyes: Besides, what has enlargement got to do with asylum seekers? Doesn't minimum wage apply to all EU workers?

How do I equate Nazism with Communism?

Simple.

Both ideologies placed Man above God and recognised Man as a purely material being, not a spiritual one. And while it is convenient for those who play the "racist" card to invoke the Holocaust as a tirade against nationalism, the same folks seem to forget the amount of people who died in Stalin's gulag for their religious beliefs or Russian patriotism. Nazism and Communism are from the same disaster zone - but the unevenly publicised barbarity of Nazi Germany (when compared to Stalinist Russia) allows authentic nationalists to be tarred with the same brush. Meanwhile, Communism has been given a more positive profile over the decades. It is now, apparently, cool to be a Red.

I don't believe the European Union and Irish cultural identity are at all compatible. Our language doesn't even seem important to the authors of the Draft Constitution. I quote the constitution:

SECTION 3

CULTURE

Article III-181
1. The Union shall contribute to the flowering of the cultures of the Member States, while respecting their national and regional diversity and at the same time bringing the common cultural heritage to the fore.

2. Action by the Union shall be aimed at encouraging cooperation between Member States and,
if necessary, supporting and complementing their action in the following areas:
(a) improvement of the knowledge and dissemination of the culture and history of the European peoples;
(b) conservation and safeguarding of cultural heritage of European significance;
(c) non-commercial cultural exchanges;
(d) artistic and literary creation, including in the audiovisual sector.



Notice 2. (b) which says that the EU will cooperate with Member States in the "conservation and safeguarding of cultural heritage of European significance." What about the cultural heritage of Irish significance? At the same time the EU promotes freedom of movement, in total disregard for said cultures. In another article of the constitution, the Eurocrats say they will give "aid to promote culture and heritage conservation where such aid does not affect trading conditions and competition in the Union to an extent that is contrary to the common interest." This common interest bull is not good enough. Such terms are easily manipulated by those whose life goal is to establish some sort of European monoculture. It the EU's socialist and bureaucratic nature which makes it automatically hostile to indigenous culture and religion.

"The Federated Republic of Europe - the United States of Europe - that is what must be. National autonomy no longer suffices. Economic evolution demands the abolition of national frontiers. If Europe is to remain split into national groups, then Imperialism will recommence its work. Only a Federated Republic of Europe can give peace to the world." These are the words of no less than Leon Trotsky, and we need little introduction to his record (and that of his colleagues) on religion and national identity. That, my friends, is from whom Brussels has taken its cue.

bonkey

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
All I see on this site are Nazi, "far-right" jibes, derogatory comments on Justin's appearance and demeanour, and the traditional "racist" retort...

One wonders what you're doing here then.

Calming down for two minutes and defining racism will reveal to you hotheads that a racist is someone who places their race and culture as superior over others;

Incorrect.

A racist is someone who discriminates based on race. That may take the form of bias for or prejudice against one or more races.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

not someone who works to ensure all races cultures are equally cherished and not homogenised by some false P.C. bureaucracy.

Ah yes...the NIMBY argument. How original. "I'm not a racist...I just don't want them here".

Unless, of course, you all want to continue the "racist" jibes for your own ideological ends?

You mean like your "Nazi", "far-right", "hothead", and other jibes?

Ryvita, if you are educated and have a mind of your own, why do you and your pals keep posing the same ridiculous "NPD", "IRA" and "far-right" questions

Because no-one is willing or capable of offering them an answer thats in any way acceptable?

As for the implication that educated people with a mind of their own couldn't have a problem with these issues, or wouldn't see them as issues.....well, I guess you'd have to explain why that is so before it holds any weight as an argument, rather than just being a veiled insult.

Why can you not discuss the REAL issues,

Did it ever occur to you that what you consider as "real" may not be a definition shared by everyone? For what reason, exactly, should we discard what we believe to be real and in its place accept what you tell us is real? Oh - I forgot - thats just another way of asking the same questions that you don't want to answer because "they're not real".

or go to Justin's site and inspect his manifesto with an open mind?

Why? You are unwilling to answer the questions that are standing in the way of these people having an open mind, despite insisting that they don't even equate to real issues.

I mean, come on....you're saying that association with many groups that people are saying they find objectionable is not a real issue. They consider it real. I consider it real. Why should we just change the way in which we view the world because you insist that these aren't issues?

Exactly what makes your "real" more real than ours? Or is that another "non-issue" question that we shouldn't be asking? We should just believe you. Belieeeeeve.

Just because he may have spoken at meetings in Germany on pro-life issues doesn't make him some Nazi racial purist.

And yet again, you use the term Nazi that not a single person here has actually applied to Mr. Barrett. You talk about us misrepresenting issues, and engaging in propaganda, and this is the most honest terminology you can use?

Getting back to the point....

The string of questionable associations which have already been listed on this thread would seem to follow a trend. And its enlightening that you can't or won't actually address these points, but rather insist that they simply aren't issues.

Its that failure to address people's concerns - coupled with an insistence that they are wrong for even having those concerns in the first place - which undermines hte facade of calm, reasoned debate you are putting forward.

I'd go so far as to say that your allegations of how shallow the posts here are is just more misdirection, or possibly even a degree of transference. I see no depth of reasoning in your posts...only an allegation that we are wrong to even ask questions.

He has often spoken at pro-choice meetings, so by your logic that makes him an abortionist!

Well, if anyone had said that Barrett was a nazi on this thread, then their logic would indeed imply that.

However, what htey've said is that he apparently has no problems associating with such people, given his stage appearances.

From that, and his attendance at pro-choice meetings, we can conclude that Mr. Barrett has no apparent problems associating with those who support abortion.

For someone complaining about propaganda, misdirection and lack of informed content from others, I'm amazed that you could even draw such a flawed conclusion about what it would imply as you did.

Actually...I lie. I'm not amazed at all. It fits exactly with what you've been saying so far.

jc

Carpo

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
How do I equate Nazism with Communism?

You were actually asked "How you can equate an open attitude to multiculturalism with gulags, Nazism and communism", which makes your answer in the next paragraph irrelevant.

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
I don't believe the European Union and Irish cultural identity are at all compatible. Our language doesn't even seem important to the authors of the Draft Constitution.

Why would the European Union as a whole care about the Irish Language? Surely thats up to the Irish to preserve or discard as we see fit. Are you saying you want the EU to be in charge of the Irish language?

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
At the same time the EU promotes freedom of movement, in total disregard for said cultures.

How is the promotion of freedom of movement in total disregard for cultures? It seems that you expect the reader to already equate freedom of movement with being a bad thing without explaining why this is the case. In other words you are preaching to the choir rather than explaining why people should agree with your point of view.

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
In another article of the constitution, the Eurocrats say they will give "aid to promote culture and heritage conservation where such aid does not affect trading conditions and competition in the Union to an extent that is contrary to the common interest." This common interest bull is not good enough.

What would be good enough from your point of view?

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Such terms are easily manipulated by those whose life goal is to establish some sort of European monoculture.

Who do you think is trying to establish a European monoculture and why do you think that this is what they are trying to do?

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
That, my friends, is from whom Brussels has taken its cue.

Whom in Brussels are taking thier ques from trotsky? Isnt calling 'Brussels' Trotskyites just "Throwing labels around" as you yourself put it?

PaulHughesWH

Remember, those organisations which you and the Establishment consider as dangerous and ones which should be outlawed, aren't like that to everyone.

In my humble opinion, the SWP and the Communist Party are extreme and dangerous organisations which should be kept in check. But you will never criticise them, will you? Despite the fact that Communism has resulted in more systematic death, murder and destruction than Hitler could have dreamed of. In fact, it has been streamlined for the modern world and reconstituted as the totality of modern political debate.

We will never agree, so whats the point in arguing?


But as for the definition of racism, "bias or prejudice against one or more races" involves the notion that yours is superior.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Remember, those organisations which you and the Establishment consider as dangerous and ones which should be outlawed, aren't like that to everyone.

Who's talking about outlawing organisations?

In my humble opinion, the SWP and the Communist Party are extreme and dangerous organisations which should be kept in check. But you will never criticise them, will you?

Who exactly are you addressing here? I think the SWP are a joke, and I didn't know we had a Communist Party.

Despite the fact that Communism has resulted in more systematic death, murder and destruction than Hitler could have dreamed of. In fact, it has been streamlined for the modern world and reconstituted as the totality of modern political debate.

If it's the totality of debate, how come you, Justin et al are allowed - nay, invited - to put your point of view across?

We will never agree, so whats the point in arguing?

If there's no point debating your opinions, what the hell is Justin doing running for the European Parliament? What does he think happens there?

But as for the definition of racism, "bias or prejudice against one or more races" involves the notion that yours is superior.

Not necessarily. It could involve an inferiority complex. Maybe some people don't want other cultures in Ireland because they're afraid Irish culture won't be able to compete with superior rivals.

I think that's a ridiculous notion, but what do I know? I like the influence of disparate cultures, and I don't see any sign of Irish culture being eroded by it.

PaulHughesWH

Good for you oscarBravo... I probably need to start remembering I'm not Indymedia. You have to be heavy handed with those shower.

PaulHughesWH

As regards outlawing organisations, the Vlaams Blok in Belgium are being outlawed by the Belgian government, while the extreme Left stand back and snigger.

Just as it was anticipated the VB (which has never engaged in violence or any armed activity, and is no threat to Belgium) were about to pull off a huge success in the Euro elections, the Belgian authorities, under E.U. orders, decided to level a racism charge against them, just because they demanded that hoax immigrants into Belgium be deported to their country of origin...

Belgium played the old "generating race hate" card and are on the way to jailing every member of Vlaams Blok and its offshoots. This is supposed to be a democracy. THAT, folks, is what genuine nationalists everywhere are facing if they come anywhere close to upsetting Establishment control in European countries.

Look what they did in Austria, when Jorg Haider was invited to form a government. Now when he and the FPO did form the Austrian government with the conservatives, I didn't see any negative effects. Except maybe the E.U. response - which, while they ramble on about "democracy and freedom" amounted to an ultimatum to a member state to change its form of government, or be punished. In other words, Brussels dictated to a sovereign country what form of government it had to have. And so we have a new, arrogant rehash of the Soviet Union.

Other than that, oscarBravo, you and I seem to have very different views on the definition of racism. One thing that cannot be denied is that is a very efficient political tool, as is demonstrated by the Belgian affair. That is where common sense begins to wane and the "racism" debate becomes blurred. In fact, it is my opinion that the monoculture, this imposition of false culture which is part and parcel of sustained immigration, is truly racist. Homogenisation is racist, and diversity will never survive while this multi/mono-culture, whatever you want to call it, exists.

spongebob

Ahhh indeed.

So Youth defence was an experiment in what could be displayed on street corners in Ireland without legal sanction ..... as a prelude to the 'big one' Paul .

Now for the grown ups in buckets of blood .

Ein Volk Ein Justin , nicht war .

M

PaulHughesWH

Muck, you make no sense to me.

Redleslie

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
As regards outlawing organisations, the Vlaams Blok in Belgium are being outlawed by the Belgian government, while the extreme Left stand back and snigger.

Just as it was anticipated the VB (which has never engaged in violence or any armed activity, and is no threat to Belgium) were about to pull off a huge success in the Euro elections, the Belgian authorities, under E.U. orders, decided to level a racism charge against them, just because they demanded that hoax immigrants into Belgium be deported to their country of origin...

Vlaams Blok racist, says court

Quoting Vlaams Blok propaganda, the court said the party described foreigners as "criminals who take the bread out of the mouths of Flemish workers, take advantage of the social security system and because of their culture, race or religion cannot integrate."

The court added that the Blok's rhetoric was clearly based on race rather than nationality as it also called for 'foreigners' from families that had been legally living in Belgium for two or three generations to be "sent home."

Not quite just "hoax" immigrants eh? A Belgian girl I know told me about some of the Vlaams Blok activities in her town. An English guy who ran a chip shop suddenly discovered that his rubbish wasn't being collected, so my friend went and had a word with the binmen and found out the VB had paid them not to collect it, presumably to damage his business and use it as an excuse to point out how dirty foreigners are. She resolved the issue by buying the binmen a few slabs of beer.

gandalf

Originally posted by Muck
Ahhh indeed.

So Youth defence was an experiment in what could be displayed on street corners in Ireland without legal sanction ..... as a prelude to the 'big one' Paul .

Now for the grown ups in buckets of blood .

Ein Volk Ein Justin , nicht war .

M

Muck maybe you can give up the "German Quote" quips eh and discuss with PaulHughes instead. That stuff is getting tired and your only back here after a ban.

Gandalf.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Other than that, oscarBravo, you and I seem to have very different views on the definition of racism. One thing that cannot be denied is that is a very efficient political tool, as is demonstrated by the Belgian affair.

There are very few things that can't be used as political tools, in skilled hands.

That is where common sense begins to wane and the "racism" debate becomes blurred. In fact, it is my opinion that the monoculture, this imposition of false culture which is part and parcel of sustained immigration, is truly racist. Homogenisation is racist, and diversity will never survive while this multi/mono-culture, whatever you want to call it, exists.

"Homogenisation is racist"? Sorry, but you're going to have to spell that one out for me. Exactly what is this monoculture you decry? Why is it a necessary consequence of immigration?

Besides, who's talking about homogenisation? What's the problem with heterogenous cultures co-existing peacefully?

therecklessone

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
I probably need to start remembering I'm not Indymedia. You have to be heavy handed with those shower.

Please expand on that. Start by defining the limits of heavy-handedness.

And when you're finished with that, can I take it that was a personal opinion, and that it in no way reflects Mr. Barrett's thinking on the issue?

spongebob

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
In fact, it is my opinion that the monoculture, this imposition of false culture which is part and parcel of sustained immigration, is truly racist. Homogenisation is racist, and diversity will never survive while this multi/mono-culture, whatever you want to call it, exists.

He is trying to say that the consequence of immigration is the imposition of a collective mindset after the fact in order to justify the fact.....post facto if you like. This mindset would be racist to him.

Its an interesting twist on an old Nazi propaganda stunt . All of the far right in Europe has its roots in pre war fascist corporatism. Some of it was very very Catholic, the Blueshirts and Franco and the Iron thingy in Hungary. Some was atheist such as Hitler. All communism was atheist, an important distinction.....following the logic of Marx' Opium adage.

The Nazis imposed the same ethos on German society pre facto during the period before WW2 , Ein Volk , Ein Fuhrer as it was summarised in song . I'm surprised at a Politics mod who does not know that particular phrase TBH . Those who don't know history are forever condemned to repeat it or else they are forever looking to spin some unpalatable facts outta the mix.

M

TuathaDeDanaan

Mass immigration has to be established by a collectivist higher authority, as opinion polls tell you everywhere(certainly in the US and the UK and Ireland) mass immigration is unwanted by the masses and has to be imposed by the elite. The only 'after the fact' thing i hear said then is that mass immmigration is inevitable, good for the economy and theres absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

The counter example of successful ultra low crime japan as the model anti immigrant state must be disregarded as racist. Japan for the japanese is alright as they are non-white, while ireland for the Irish is an example of discrimination and low browed bigotry.

I fail to see what nazi propaganda stunt is alluded to in 'Muck's' comment.

bonkey

Originally posted by oscarBravo
There are very few things that can't be used as political tools, in skilled hands.

Bravo, Oscarbravo. Bravo.

Exactly what is this monoculture you decry? Why is it a necessary consequence of immigration?

Sssh. Don't point out the inherent flaw in the argument.

Next you'll be pointing out that cultures constantly evolve. Last time I checked, the "Irish" culture that Paul is so vehemently trying to save from extinction is one which is already the result of several hundred years of significant British influence...which means that either its shown itself to be pretty much impervious to foreign influence or its already no longer an "Irish" culture, but rather our "current cultural melange".

Unfortanately, neither of those issues does Mr. Hughes homogenisation argument any good. In fact....quite teh opposite. It would infer that the homogenisation argument is, in fact, rather critically flawed.

And lets not even mention that the greatest "pressures" on cultural homogenisation come not from the foreigners who move to our country and settle, but rather from the foreign influences that we not only invite into our home (in the form of television, media, etc) but which we increasingly attempt to emulate.

Nike and Levis have probably done more for cultural homogenisation in teh last half-century than any amount of immigration will in the next half.....but I don't see Mr. Hughes or Mr. Barrett calling for these foreign influences to be removed.

Besides, who's talking about homogenisation? What's the problem with heterogenous cultures co-existing peacefully?

Mr. Hughes doesn't seem to think its possible.`...but I'm guessing that like so many other awkward questions and points on this thread, it will be yet another one which he will dodge dealing with in detail and simply decry with some nice platitudes or "witty" denigration of other peoples' points of view.

jc

jc

spongebob

Originally posted by TuathaDeDanaan
mass immigration is unwanted by the masses and has to be imposed by the elite. The only 'after the fact' thing i hear said then is that mass immmigration is inevitable, The counter example of successful ultra low crime japan as the model anti immigrant state must be disregarded as racist. Japan for the japanese is alright as they are non-white, while ireland for the Irish is an example of discrimination and low browed bigotry.

I fail to see what nazi propaganda stunt is alluded to in 'Muck's' comment.

Did anybody ask the Native American population about this or do the masses have to be white immigrants before the case is advanced ?

The Tuatha de Dannann were of course the Celts who displaced the (then) native Irish and imposed their own homogeneity for a long time thereafter. Ironic or wha

As for Japan, what are 4m Koreans doing there ?

M

Ryvita

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Ryvita, if you are educated and have a mind of your own, why do you and your pals keep posing the same ridiculous "NPD", "IRA" and "far-right" questions instead of looking at the core of what Justin has to say? Are you some kind of a propagandist? Why can you not discuss the REAL issues, or go to Justin's site and inspect his manifesto with an open mind?

Paul, can I say first that I am really glad you are posting here as I think it's essential that both sides are heard here. I know you are getting fired on from all sides but it's so important to at least discuss these things and I'm interested and open to your point of view.

Now, I'll explain my beliefs/leanings so as to give you an idea why I don't really have much time for Justin Barrett?

* I am Pro-choice - I really don't want to get into an argument about this we'll just agree to differ.
* I am Pro Same Sex marriage.
* I am very very much anti Indy media and their politics.
* I am passionate about the Irish Language, Irish Music and Culture. I feel this is something that we need to promote ourselves. I think all tradional music and languages should be promoted big-time across Europe.
* I'm not sure how I'm going to Vote in the Immigration referendum. I'm leaning towards Yes.
* I feel that Ireland is becoming a materialistic and selfish place to live.
* I have some issues with the Catholic church (women priests, attitudes to women being one) but I feel that there is far too much church bashing in this country. Also I feel that any other religion would not get the same abuse in this country. I think people are quick to think of the bad things religious orders have done but they are doing unbelieveable work in this country for the poor etc. It's very sad that this is forgotten.

I'm sure I could add to this list. I'm not asking you to agree with me Paul but I don't think you can catagorise me as a "Red" either. I'm sure we agree on somethings and disagree on others. I think it's really great to be able to talk to someone with a different point of view as it makes me really think about what it is I believe.

PaulHughesWH

Originally posted by oscarBravo
There are very few things that can't be used as political tools, in skilled hands. "Homogenisation is racist"? Sorry, but you're going to have to spell that one out for me. Exactly what is this monoculture you decry? Why is it a necessary consequence of immigration?

Besides, who's talking about homogenisation? What's the problem with heterogenous cultures co-existing peacefully?

Not possible. How many times do we have to replay the example of the United States? Or France, a Catholic country where religious dress and instruction has been banned in schools?

And as for you, bonkey, Indigenous Gaelic Irish culture does not come from 800 years of British influence. Waken up.

PaulHughesWH

Originally posted by Ryvita
I feel that Ireland is becoming a materialistic and selfish place to live.

Thank you for not being so dismissive, Ryvita. You and I will probably never agree on the same-sex marriage/abortion issues because I find them both unnatural, and I see abortion as murder. Your above quote goes against your pro-choice convictions, as it is those materialistic and selfish attitudes which make the abortion industry such a success. Children or pregnancy becomes a hindrance to some ambitious and selfish career women - therefore, if they do fall pregnant, abortion becomes an easy way out. Kill the baby, and then you can storm on with your career.

I endorse your views about the unfair treatment of the Catholic Church, and the importance of Irish culture. But why do you have "no time" for Justin Barrett? What is so overtly bad about him, that you have experienced or can prove? WHY is there such a huge media campaign to discredit him? Do you not think that the people forcing this "German Nazi rally" crap (which I know, for a fact, is not as the media portrayed it), have not got their own agendas? You have a lot of good beliefs, Ryvita, but I wish that you and so many other Irish people could realise how insidious the European Union is, the media, and other forces. They all seek the destruction of culture, national sovereignty and the Catholic religion.

And while people continue to knock people like JB, it will keep getting worse.

bonkey

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Or France, a Catholic country where religious dress and instruction has been banned in schools?

Since when is France - a nation who's laws have seperated church and state for over a century - a Catholic country?????

And as for you, bonkey, Indigenous Gaelic Irish culture does not come from 800 years of British influence.

When did I suggest it was? I suggested that the culture we have today - which is the only culture you could rationally be trying to protect - has either withstood 800 years of foreign influence, or has not.

If it has withstood foreign influence for 800 years, then your assertion that it needs protection against "homogenisation" is immediately suspect, because you haven't offered a shred of a reason why it has suddenly become vulnerable after 800 years of not being so.

If it hasn't withstood it, then our culture is a constantly evolving thing, at which point one has to ask what you have against that, because you want to put an end to it. One also has to ask what you are calling "Irish", if the culture is not resistance to 800 years of foreign influence.

Take your pick. You are talking about a culture, which did, or did not, resist 800 years of foreign influence. I don't care which....because in either case, your cultural argument is clearly flawed.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting that our current culture is wrong, and that a culture we haven't had in this country for centuries is something you inherently know to be better and what we all really should want?????

The fact that you aren't addressing any of the issues raised, but instead misrepresent them to make a throwaway retort only serves to highlight how flawed and weak you know your own argument to be.

jc

PaulHughesWH

France was once a Catholic country. A system subject to flawed human reason changed all that - it doesn't say it is right.

I haven't even bothered to elaborate on my "cultural argument", as there are some opposing views in this world which will never be reconciled.

therecklessone

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Good for you oscarBravo... I probably need to start remembering I'm not Indymedia. You have to be heavy handed with those shower.

Maybe you missed my original request for clarification...

Can you expand on this? Just how heavy handed does one need to be with "those shower"?

therecklessone

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
Children or pregnancy becomes a hindrance to some ambitious and selfish career women - therefore, if they do fall pregnant, abortion becomes an easy way out. Kill the baby, and then you can storm on with your career.

Would that life were that simple. You're not endearing yourself to many are you? Is that the only reason you believe women have abortions? A career choice?

And you wonder why people have no time for Justin Barrett? :rolleyes:

therecklessone

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH


And as for you, bonkey, Indigenous Gaelic Irish culture does not come from 800 years of British influence. Waken up.

So its "indigenous Gaelic Irish culture" you wish to protect from the foreign hordes? Do you reject all non-Gaelic culture? Speak Irish as your first language by any chance?

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
I haven't even bothered to elaborate on my "cultural argument", as there are some opposing views in this world which will never be reconciled.

Translation:

I've realise I've met my match, so I'll dodge the question altogether.

Can you define Irish culture? Because as an Irish citizen, born in the Republic to Irish parents who in turn were born here to Irish parents (and so on...), I'm as Irish as you can get. Based on what you have espoused on these pages I am fairly certain that I do not conform to your cultural template. Am I a threat to your culture? Should I be expelled from the state as a result?

oscarBravo

Originally posted by PaulHughesWH
I haven't even bothered to elaborate on my "cultural argument", as there are some opposing views in this world which will never be reconciled.

That's not really good enough, Paul - bonkey's post wasn't an espousal of an opposing view, so much as an exposé of a logical fallacy in your argument. If you believe strongly enough in your views, you should at least be prepared to defend their logical basis.

spongebob

Its still all Ein Volk stuff from Paul.

By the way he is welcome to put his theories in Irish, especially to ole Muckypoos here , except that I doubt he speaks anything other than the language of the Anglo Saxon ..........

M