Should McCabe killers be release as part of IRA disbandment deal?

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak

I didn't call the Sinn Féin organisation murderers, but I am saying that members of Sinn Féin are murderers. So no, I won't retract it. Why would I, when Sinn Féin have links to a murderous terrorist organisation.

Originally posted by ReefBreak
In fact, every time you mention the words IRA/UDA/ Sinn Fein /etc I will bash them, because you're the one voting for these murderers.

Seems to me you were calling Sinn Fein Murderers, you didn't state only certain members.

villain_97

These thugs should never be released early.They murdered a Garda who was on duty protecting our Republic and our rights.it is disgusting that bertie would sell out so easily.Think of how many people would be put -off joining the Gards?Those men got off murder because the IRA intimidated witnesses.These FASCISTS must serve their time for striking at our democracy.Sinn Fein have lost all credability by protesting for their release

Villain

Originally posted by villain_97
Sinn Fein have lost all credability by protesting for their release

Link please, I dont remember them PROTESTING for it.

I'm sure they were tried to negoiate it during a peace deal which involved a total end to IRA activitys. They were doing so on behalf of the IRA.

sceptre

Originally posted by irish1
Link please, I dont remember them PROTESTING for it.

There's more than one meaning of the word "protesting", even if people will insist on associating it with placards, marches and these days, water cannon I suppose. Like skinning a cat as the emperor Augustus apparently liked to say.

I can "protest" on my own in my living room dressed in a tee-shirt and underpants if I have paper, pencils and a stamp to hand. Or one of those electronic interwebulator gizmos.

(could depend on whether the stress is put on syllable 1 or 2 in "protest" though it really shouldn't matter)

Would the phrase "blustering for" do instead?

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
They were doing so on behalf of the IRA.

Really?

THE widow of a Kerry Garda who was killed during an armed robbery is said to be devastated that Kerry TD Martin Ferris and three other Sinn Fein TDs posed for a familyalbum style prison photograph with the men serving sentences for the crime.

Were they doing this also "on behalf of the IRA"?



Link

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
Really?



Were they doing this also "on behalf of the IRA"?



Link

Nice to see cork join the debate with a great post

I'm sure Martin Ferris poses for pictures with a lot of IRA men, I dont see a problem with that, the IRA are on a ceasefire which SF has helped bring about.

I would be more worried if SF stopped dealing with the IRA and the peace process failed.

Sorry Cork I don't see an issue here.

I remember Bertie shaking the hand of P Flynn on television before the last election, which to some would seem wrong given his corruption, but I dont really see an issue here either.

Maybe I'm just too nice do

Cork

Originally posted by irish1

I would be more worried if SF stopped dealing with the IRA and the peace process failed.

SF has failed to get the IRA to fully disband, fully decommission, stop racketeering (which is costing the Irish exchequer) or stop punishment beatings.

Martin Ferris poses for pictures with a lot of IRA men

I really don't care much for Ferris. But when Martin Ferris and three other Sinn Fein TDs pose with the men serving sentences for the murder of a garda is insensitive.

This very same SF call then for the early release of these people.

Villain

Cork you seriously are like a broken record and I'm really fed up having to state the same opinions over and over because you go on and on about the same points over and over.

Originally posted by Cork
SF has failed to get the IRA to fully disband, fully decommission, stop racketeering (which is costing the Irish exchequer) or stop punishment beatings.

Then you said:

Originally posted by Cork

This very same SF call then for the early release of these people.

Do you think that SF have a magic wand and all they have to do is wave it and the IRA will fully decommission??

Can you not see the link between the 2 points you made, SF had brokered a deal in October which involved the release of these men and in return there was obviously going to be a big move from the IRA.

If you feel so strongly instead of bashing SF why don't you bash the government that gave the Garda's wife a letter stating they wouldn't be released early and now is willling to sanction that release as part of a peace deal.

Or maybe you can't find Bertie because he's off having a cuppa with P Flynn, Liam Lawlor and Ray Burke to make sure there all still behaving:D

Cork

P Flynn, Liam Lawlor and Ray Burke

What have these 3 been found guilty of?

You seem to be trying to draw a comparison between these 3 individuals & those convicted to Jerry McCabes murder.

If any ex politician is found guilty of cuppurption - I would hope that they would serve their full sentences.

It think it would be pretty sad - If a political party was constantly calling for their early release.

Martin Ferris and three other Sinn Fein TDs posed for a familyalbum style prison photograph with the men serving sentences for the crime.

Do you not think that posing for pictures with those convicted in connection with the murder of gerry McCabe was insensitive?

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
What have these 3 been found guilty of?

You seem to be trying to draw a comparison between these 3 individuals & those convicted to Jerry McCabes murder.

If any ex politician is found guilty of cuppurption - I would hope that they would serve their full sentences.

It think it would be pretty sad - If a political party was constantly calling for their early release.

lol, I was never drawing any comparison, just passing some little hearted remarks, chill out there cork:D

Originally posted by Cork

Do you not think that posing for pictures with those convicted in connection with the murder of gerry McCabe was insensitive?

Possibly, but I dont think it is as bad as Bertie Ahern comming out and saying they could be released after his government gave the Garda's wife a letter saying they wouldn't be, I think he should have at least spoke with Mrs McCabe before pubically stating the situation.

But sher why would you wanna talk about that Cork, I mean its only SF that can be bashed by you, right?

FF are perfect;)

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Cork
SF has failed to get the IRA to fully disband, fully decommission, stop racketeering (which is costing the Irish exchequer) or stop punishment beatings.

Look at how many killings, bombings, beatings, etc. carried out by loyalists (who have not decomissioned a single weapon), and also how many legally held weapons that are in the hands of unionists, and then tell me why the PIRA must fully disband. You might want to also check out the PSNI's lack of success investigating the above offences too.

As I've said before, the PIRA are thus far the only group to have decommissioned any weapons (a few 50 year old rusty guns by the LVF's publicity dept. has zero credibility). In any case, no matter how much the PIRA ever would decommission, there will always be people who question the amount and the method used i.e. people are always going to reject it to suit their own ends

As someone who is so vocal in defending democratic principles, why do you feel that a political party should be charged with stopping racketeering? Isn't this what police forces are supposed to be doing?

As for punishment beatings, again if the police, courts, etc. were doing their jobs properly, they would all but disappear.

David-[RLD]-

*applause*

Well said, Tommy Vercetti.

Zombrex

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
Look at how many killings, bombings, beatings, etc. carried out by loyalists (who have not decomissioned a single weapon), and also how many legally held weapons that are in the hands of unionists, and then tell me why the PIRA must fully disband.

Good point, because having more terrorists with weapons is better than having less :rolleyes:

The IRA should disband because the IRA should disband, not because the loyalists have or have not.

What you think they should wait for every loyalist group to disband, and then do it. That would look real good!

Cork

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti

As for punishment beatings, again if the police, courts, etc. were doing their jobs properly, they would all but disappear.

So, the answer is for the IRA to dispense justice with baseball bats?

SF/IRA then call for the early release of those associated with the murder of Jerry McCabe.

The problems of NI are somewhat tribal - Oh' the loyalist terror gangs have not decommissioned. Two wrongs do not make a right. We really need to get away from tribalisim and focus on inclusive political solutions.

why do you feel that a political party should be charged with stopping racketeering?

Has SF not known links to the IRA?

Those associated with the murder of Jerry McCabe should serve their full sentences. Campaigning for their early release as a pre-condition for political progress is not on.

Villain

Originally posted by irish1

Possibly, but I dont think it is as bad as Bertie Ahern comming out and saying they could be released after his government gave the Garda's wife a letter saying they wouldn't be, I think he should have at least spoke with Mrs McCabe before pubically stating the situation.

But sher why would you wanna talk about that Cork, I mean its only SF that can be bashed by you, right?

FF are perfect;)

Cork's reply: " "

:dunno:

Cork

The government has now been in communication with both the McCabe family and GRA. They now seem to be in broad agreement.

On the other hand:

THE widow of a Kerry Garda who was killed during an armed robbery is said to be devastated that Kerry TD Martin Ferris and three other Sinn Fein TDs posed for a familyalbum style prison photograph with the men serving sentences for the crime.

Has Ferris or the other Sinn Fein TDs apologised for having their photographs taken with with the men serving sentences for the crime?

Will Sinn Fein stop calling for the release of these people?

You seem to be trying to link the actions of the government to the actions to SF. The government has no known links to an the IRA.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
The government has now been in communication with both the McCabe family and GRA. They now seem to be in broad agreement.

Now being in communication!!!!!!:eek: :eek: just now???

But a deal was done last October for these men to be released???

So Mrs McCabe is in agreement that these men should be realeased as part of a peace deal?? didn't know that can you post me a link.

Originally posted by Cork

Has Ferris or the other Sinn Fein TDs apologised for having their photographs taken with with the men serving sentences for the crime?

Will Sinn Fein stop calling for the release of these people?

You seem to be trying to link the actions of the government to the actions to SF. The government has no known links to an the IRA.

Cork for once just leave the SF bashing out and discuss what I posted, I have discussed my opinion on what you asked previously.

I've come to the conclusion that you are definitely an elected Politican because every time a question is asked of FF you simply ignore and being to bash the other party.

I don't think I have ever avoided a question I was asked here, pitty you can't do the same.

If you think that it is ok that Mrs McCabe heres about a deal that was done to release these men back in OCtober through the media you obviously need to look at yourself and the FF party.

Cork

I've come to the conclusion that you are definitely an elected Politican because every time a question is asked of FF you simply ignore and being to bash the other party.

Sorry, to disappoint but I am not even a member of a political party. I am working in a 9 to 5 job that bores me senseless.

I really don't believe that those involved in the Jerry McCabe murder should be up for early release. Their jailing should not be used as a bargaining chip to get movement from the IRA to disband.

But Government should also have not allowed this to be put on the table.

And SF sould not be seeking it to be put on the table.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
Sorry, to disappoint but I am not even a member of a political party. I am working in a 9 to 5 job that bores me senseless.

I really don't believe that those involved in the Jerry McCabe murder should be up for early release. Their jailing should not be used as a bargaining chip to get movement from the IRA to disband.

But Government should also have not allowed this to be put on the table.

And SF sould not be seeking it to be put on the table.

I thought I was getting somewhere, but you still avoided a question so I'l put it to you again.

Now being in communication!!!!!! just now???

But a deal was done last October for these men to be released???

So Mrs McCabe is in agreement that these men should be realeased as part of a peace deal?? didn't know that can you post me a link.

Irish1,
to be fair to Cork ( Which I know is never easy ) but I think it's fairly obvious ( to me anyhow ) that cork was using the vernacular when he said the government had now been ,I use it in every day speech(the vernacular that is and maybe not that particular phrase) as I'm sure you do.
But it's not a good idea to use it here as the Written word ( to borrow a phrase from this boards charter ) conveys a lot less information than the spoken.

I actually recognised the vernacular straight away with what cork said as that appears to be part and parcel of his posting style.
I took it to mean that he was saying the government had been in talks with the McCabe family and the GRA since the revelation of the october deal came to light.

I very much doubt his assertion though that they are in Broad agreement as it's unlikely that the Gardaí or the McCabe family would like these killers released.
Bertie would in my view consider strongly their release again if a deal was forthcoming that would move the NI process foward.
That is something we're unlikely to see now this side of an election, and possibly it's not likely to be seen for some time, yet given the furore.

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
I thought I was getting somewhere, but you still avoided a question so I'l put it to you again.

There is no deal on the table at the minute.

SF/IRA seem to be constantly demanding the release of these people for the price of ridding this country of the IRA and all its criminal activitys.

No deal sgould have been put on the table. These people should serve their full sentences. Can I make it clearer than that.

Government should make this clear to SF/IRA. I don't think that the release of these people should be used by SF/IRA as the price for political progress in this country.

THE widow of a Kerry Garda who was killed during an armed robbery is said to be devastated that Kerry TD Martin Ferris and three other Sinn Fein TDs posed for a familyalbum style prison photograph with the men serving sentences for the crime.

Let Martin Ferris and three other Sinn Fein TDs pose beside these people. Let SF/IRA call for their release.

But no government should let these people out as a price for political progress. No government should be blackmailed by the IRA who are still busy on the ground with their punishment beatings and racketeering.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Wicknight
Good point, because having more terrorists with weapons is better than having less :rolleyes:

You're correct in theory (sarcasm aside), in reality however, this is simply not the way things work.

The IRA should disband because the IRA should disband, not because the loyalists have or have not.

Look back at how and why the PIRA were formed.

What you think they should wait for every loyalist group to disband, and then do it. That would look real good!

No it would look shit (enough of your sarcasm please). But perhaps some token gesture from a (or all) loyalist group(s) would be a start. Who knows, it could lead to a more formal decommissioning/disbandment process.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Cork
So, the answer is for the IRA to dispense justice with baseball bats?

In reality, someone's gotta do it.

The problems of NI are somewhat tribal - Oh' the loyalist terror gangs have not decommissioned. Two wrongs do not make a right. We really need to get away from tribalisim and focus on inclusive political solutions.

I would consider the PIRA's acts of decommissioning to be a "right" rather than the "wrong" you seem to see them as. All we need now is for the other side to get their "right" in and away we go.

Has SF not known links to the IRA?

Are you asking this in relation to racketeering? The alleged "criminal activity" going on in Dublin Port, for example, that our wonderful Government like to harp on about without providing a shred of evidence about?

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
In reality, someone's gotta do it.

It's the fruit of the same tree though as the beheading of the guy out in Iraq...
It's the same kind of kangeroo court in my opinion.
The PSNI may consist for the large part of mostly the old RUC officers, but it is also the most regulated, in these islands curtesy of Nualo O' Loan.
In that scenario,It would far better in my view for catholics to be taking advantage of the 50:50 legal religous bias that was put in place to improve the catholic representation in the PSNI.

Cork

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cork
So, the answer is for the IRA to dispense justice with baseball bats?

---

In reality, someone's gotta do it. :

So, we have SF/IRA supporting the early release of the people convicted of the cold blooded murder of Jerry McCabe.

Yet has SF offered any criticism of IRA punishment beatings or IRA kangaroo Courts?

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Earthman
It's the fruit of the same tree though as the beheading of the guy out in Iraq...
It's the same kind of kangeroo court in my opinion.
The PSNI may consist for the large part of mostly the old RUC officers, but it is also the most regulated, in these islands curtesy of Nualo O' Loan.
In that scenario,It would far better in my view for catholics to be taking advantage of the 50:50 legal religous bias that was put in place to improve the catholic representation in the PSNI.

It's nothing to do with Iraq, and it isn't even always a PSNI/RUC issue. Lack of proper policing will lead to people taking the law into their own hands, anywhere. It isn't a big SF conspiracy, it's people being pissed off with joyriders/drug dealers/etc in their area. It suits the media to blame SF for all of this.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Cork

Yet has SF offered any criticism of IRA punishment beatings or IRA kangaroo Courts?

No, but they have criticised the government for failing to honour their election promise of 2,000 extra gardai. Maybe they are looking at a bigger picture here?

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
It's nothing to do with Iraq, and it isn't even always a PSNI/RUC issue. Lack of proper policing will lead to people taking the law into their own hands, anywhere. It isn't a big SF conspiracy, it's people being pissed off with joyriders/drug dealers/etc in their area. It suits the media to blame SF for all of this.

With respect,You are missing my point.
There is a police force in NI, which is heavily regulated.
There is currently a process in place to increase the number of catholics represented in that force.
Those are two facts.

Unaccountable anonyomous people in balaclava's shooting the knee's off teenagers as judge and jury is not dissimilar to unaccountable anonymous people doing the same or worse in Iraq.

In this day and age, and at this stage in the process,I don't think it's acceptable to be holding out the perception that the police are all on one side as an excuse not to support them doing their job as community police men and women.

After all the very same people might argue that the crimes of IRA people should be put in the past...
Why not apply the same logic to the police force in NI, especially given the strict regulation it's under and the 50:50 recruitment bias...

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Earthman
With respect,You are missing my point.
There is a police force in NI, which is heavily regulated.
There is currently a process in place to increase the number of catholics represented in that force.
Those are two facts.

Unaccountable anonyomous people in balaclava's shooting the knee's off teenagers as judge and jury is not dissimilar to unaccountable anonymous people doing the same or worse in Iraq.

In this day and age, and at this stage in the process,I don't think it's acceptable to be holding out the perception that the police are all on one side as an excuse not to support them doing their job as community police men and women.

After all the very same people might argue that the crimes of IRA people should be put in the past...
Why not apply the same logic to the police force in NI, especially given the strict regulation it's under and the 50:50 recruitment bias...

Point taken. I'm looking at it from a personal point of view. I was staying over at a friend's house a few weeks ago (In Dublin btw) and I was woken by joyriders at about 6 am. This went on for the next two hours or so. I was asking my friend if this was commonplace and what was being done about it and so on. It happens every weekend and most weeknights/mornings. They and their neighbours have given up phoning the Gardai because nothing is ever done about it. This example is probably happening in many other parts of Ireland, north and south. In this type of climate, people are going to either take the law into their own hands themselves or look to other people who will, because the law has failed them.

The Brigadier

Yeah so call your local SF TD and have him organise to have the joyriders kneecapped....

Oh sorry, I forgot there is no connection there....the IRA don't do anything in the south, guess your going to have to put up with it...