guys and gals, the same insurance?

seamus

Originally posted by ravenhead
Another reason your brother's is higher is because your g/f is only driving a 1.1 where as your brother is driving a 1.5 - it only goes without saying that his insurance would be higher .. it's a more powerful car

A 1.5 is not a big car.
Besides, she's an inexperienced, unqualified driver. Unless he's driving a ridiculously big ro ridiculously expensive car, there is no reason why it should be ridiculously higher, or higher at all.

ravenhead

Originally posted by seamus
A 1.5 is not a big car.

I didn't say it was a big car -- I said it was more powerful than an 1.1 is it not?????

seamus

Originally posted by ravenhead
I didn't say it was a big car -- I said it was more powerful than an 1.1 is it not?????

Of course it is. Still not justification.

Gmodified

1.1 and 1.5 will be in different insurance group

ok there is no justification for 3500 yoyo's but you can't

compare 1.1 fiesta to 1.5 civic or 1.3 starlet turbo

ravenhead

Exactly.....:)

bizmark

I total agree with this....It’s about time women’s mentality of equal rights as long as its more equal for us is challenged

echomadman

No-ones mentioned the other main reason for these insane premiums, besides the companies being assholes, Ireland has a ridiculous claim culture thats emerged in the last 10 years.

If the courts held off on payouts for spurious claims, or investigated claims thorougly then premiums could be kept at sane levels.

My first insurance at 17 on a 1.3 was £300 as named driver.

a year or two later it skyrocketed to over 1000, after that I couldnt even get a quote off most companies.


I spent two years driving uninsured, as the £4000 they wanted for insurance as a NAMED driver on a 1.3 golf, was more than the car was worth and I dont drive like i have delusions of F1 glory so i took a calculated risk, which is in essence what insurance companies are supposed to be doing when they insure you.
Their pre-emptive punitive charges based on gender are disgraceful

I dont regret doing it either, i'm just annoyed i didnt accumulate the NCB.

Last year on a 1.6 audi A4 i paid 1450 as a named driver with a full license.
next month i turn 25 and it drops to 600.
I have never had an accident in 8 years of driving, i still think that 600 is too high, 400 or so would be tolerable and if i had an accidnet that was my fault, then by all means jack my premium up to whatever you want, until then its just theft imo.

ravenhead

Originally posted by echomadman
No-ones mentioned the other main reason for these insane premiums, besides the companies being assholes, Ireland has a ridiculous claim culture thats emerged in the last 10 years.

If the courts held off on payouts for spurious claims, or investigated claims thorougly then premiums could be kept at sane levels.

I have to agree with you on this one - I was in a crash a couple of years ago & the guy that was responcible(& was found responcible by the courts) still received £15000 compo because he broke his shoulder & was out of work..... How is that right???

seamus

Originally posted by Gmodified
1.1 and 1.5 will be in different insurance group

ok there is no justification for 3500 yoyo's but you can't

compare 1.1 fiesta to 1.5 civic or 1.3 starlet turbo

For the record, it's a Golf, but there is no reason why a qualified, experienced driver should have to pay more than an unqualified, inexperienced one, unless they're driving a ridiculously big risk.

sutty

The whole system is a joke, I paied €3,200 for 3rd party with AON, that is on a 250cc Dragstar Cruser (I'm 23 btw)(top speed of 83MPH on a very long straight with good wather condisions) it was over €5,200 if I wanted fully comp. The year before that I payed €1,600 on a Virago 125cc. While the CC of the bike is twice of the one I had the year befor, the "power" of the bike is not. The reasion I was given the high quote, is that I am male. If I was female, it would have been halfed if not more. I think the whole thing is crazy. The prices are just too high and keep going up! The whole system needs to be redone.

rymus

Jesus sutty, thats mad. Are you living smack in the centre of Dublin or what?

After the 30/40% hike in insurance last summer I ended up paying 1200 for TPO on my drag star 650cc. That was up from about 860 I paid the previous year. I'm also 23, with a full A license. Now that I have a new bike (Royal Star Venture - 1300cc) I'd say my insurance is going to go up to around 1400/1600 or maybe even tipping the scales at 2k.

With this in mind, I must contact Aon to get a quote for my girlfriend on the drag star to see how much it is out of interest. When ya see things like that, people paying 3 grand for to insure themselves on a 250cc bike, you really realise how much of a sinking ship this country is. I wonder what kind of money I'd be paying for insurance if I lived in England?

shoegirl

I don't think this law would have a huge impact because insurance quotes are based on risk. The 19 year old girl is going to be quoted a hell of a lot more than a 29 year old woman, even if she has a full licence and the older woman doesn't.

Unfortunately the kind of accidents young males have are more expensive in that they tend to be more serious. Also I have yet to come accross any males outside Dublin who aspired to drive anything less than a 1.4 litre engine - very different in Dublin of course, where insurance is more expensive and the choice is not there. Most women I know drive smaller engines where its much harder to hit really hit speeds.

I've noticed more male drivers tend to have an inflated belief in their own ability, and have come accross some extremely poor drivers who really didn't realise how poor they were. Women seem to be intimidated by cars and so you don't get the unbridled arrogance. Another point worth making is that drinking and driving is a largely male pastime - a huge percentage of those caught drinking a driving are male - thats not to say that women don't, but are more likely to do it.

I doubt there'll be much change, except for very young women, who'll be lumped with bigger costs. (Probably rightly so). You'll probably find that the insurers find some new category of risk and continue to charge the enormous premiums.

What I find ridiculous is the "no claims system." For a start the fact that anybody can PAY to protect their NCB is inherently unfair. It does not reflect your driving experience because if you sell your car and go off to Australia for 2 years they'll consider your NCB to be totally lapsed and you'll be quoted exactly the same as somebody with no driving experience! Even if you have a full NCB!

daggeredge

Originally posted by shoegirl
Another point worth making is that drinking and driving is a largely male pastime - a huge percentage of those caught drinking a driving are male - thats not to say that women don't, but are more likely to do it.

UNTRUE ! I could give you a list of women i know who have had a few and think there safe to drive ...and whats worse these women actually have bacardis and cokes and so on & then drive..

Before I could drive I had to go fix a friend of my relations computer for her and this "relation" had had a sneaky one while i was fixing the computer!

I have to say if I'd have known before she drove me home I would have got a lift off someone else....also know another person (a woman) who started off on the one bud shandy on the nights out (she was driving every1 around at the time and wasn't drinking herself at the time)She now has three bud shandies a night , in my estimation thats two ordinary pints (and the fact she's small and a woman doesn't bode well for the alcohol blood level)I never get a lift from her anymore

And none of these people has ever been stopped by the guards even though on numerous occasions they've passed checkpoints and are waved on (assumed to be sober) however all my male friends are frequently stopped and questioned at checkpoints even if they aren't going out...(honestly quizzed my friend the other day, she's always waved on!)

I can honestly say I have never had a drink and been driving afterwards and thats the way I intend it 2 stay that way!

seamus

Originally posted by daggeredge
UNTRUE ! I could give you a list of women i know who have had a few and think there safe to drive ...and whats worse these women actually have bacardis and cokes and so on & then drive..

Well, technically it is true, but it's a big sweeping statement. Also, the nature of the alcohol is irrelevant. In the over 40's, there is a still a much larger proportion of Men who drive at all than women who drive at all. On top of this, this age group are much more likely to drink and drive than the younger generation, which skews the results slightly because obviously it's going to add more male drink-drivers to the stats.

Drink-Driving is one of those things that should declare the offender's insurance null and void. The Government pays the victim compensation (if the worst happens), the driver gets banned for life, and spends the rest of his life paying off the costs.
To load men because a few decide they'll drink and drive, is a bit like having security restrictions on the movement of men since they make up the majority of imprisoned criminal offenders.

shoegirl

Originally posted by daggeredge
UNTRUE ! I could give you a list of women i know who have had a few and think there safe to drive ...and whats worse these women actually have bacardis and cokes and so on & then drive..

These are based on facts

Check out http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/drink-driving.pdf

for relationship between drunken driving and gender - by the way this study is based on actually conviction data for the UK: "More than 9 out of 10 of those convicted are male. Under 21s account for around 10 per cent of convictions. The peak age for becoming a ‘high risk offender’ (see page 7) is 27; relatively few people become high risk offenders after the age of 45. Young male manual workers (or unemployed) who drink beer in pubs have been identified as one high risk
group, but so have older professional/managerial men.(6)

Approximately half of convicted drink drivers have blood alcohol levels in excess of
150mg%. Around 12 per cent of convicted drink drivers are convicted of a second offence within ten years.6
Drink drive accidents can be caused by drivers of all ages, but the highest rates of drink drive accidents per 100,000 licence holders occur in young men aged up to 34, particularly the age group 20-24."

and www.cso.ie for road accidents and fatalities - by far males are more involved in accidents, and young males are disproportionately represented. This is based on historical fact, not gender politics. These are based on UK conviction rates, so Ireland would probably be similar, being culturally largely similar to the UK. I suppose this is why men pay much higher premiums - they are far more heavily represented in terms of serious breaches of the law.

What you say about younger males is not borne out - drunk driving is actually quite high amongst younger males - though there is the old problem of old professionals (probably down to attitude - high levels of arrogance coupled with a lack of social responsibility). The number of women drivers has hugely increased in recent years - in Ireland I'd say we're nearly level - but we still don't see anything like parity where accidents and law breaking is concerned - for whatever reason, this still appears to be largely male.

seamus

Originally posted by shoegirl
These are based on facts

Check out http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/drink-driving.pdf

Different country, different people. Not admissable I'm afraid. Although our two countries are similar, our attitudes to driving are vastly different, so you can't really equate the two.

daggeredge

based on the number of people that are stopped ? What did I just say...At least you read where I said that my women friends in the examples were WAVED ON (thats being sarcastic by the by )....next time you do some research on the subject....do some research on the previously posted message! HONESTLY

daggeredge

ok getting back to the post @ hand does anyone know if this equal sexuality bill for car insurance going to be passed by the EU or is it passed already?

Stephen

Our government likes to selectively choose which EU laws it will implement. Illegal VRT anybody?

daggeredge

I'll take that VRT post and say in Britain
the 1.1 5dr hatch fiat panda (not my fave car in the world but its an example) is £6127 stg which is €9,144

the same car in ireland is €10,600
not a big difference until you consider that thats a 15% increase! (plus its not the biggest car in the world )

That could be the cost of your insurance (or like me 2/3rds of it!) on such a car

1 word 4 it - jipped!

daggeredge

oh yeah for the unwise THIS is a panda

BrianD3

If a man pays higher insurance than a women (assuming that all other factors such as age, car type are equal) that is sexual discrimination, plain and simple. As has already been said, it would be completely unacceptable if it were racial discrimination. Imagine if insurance companies required drivers to state their race when applying for insurance. Statistics could then be generated regarding the relative accident rates of blacks, whites etc. and whichever race had the highest claims could be loaded accordingly. How would people react to that?
<edit> oh yeah, what about the Eagle "Lady Star" policies. Would Eagle Star get away with marketing "Black Star" or "White Star" or "Able-Bodied Star" policies?????

To all women saying that this sexual discrimination is OK because "insurance is about risk and insurance companies have to load high risk groups", consider this: My dad had a small business employing around 6 people, mainly women. Every year or so, he'd end up with at least one of his experienced staff going on maternity leave, which resulted in hassle and expense (training in replacment staff etc.) for him. Now it's an indisputible fact that women as a group are more likely to take maternity leave than men. So, all other things being equal, given the choice between employing males and females, wouldn't he have been sensible to employ males seeing as women as a group were more likely to go on maternity leave and cost him money.

Feminists would recoil in horror at this idea that women were less employable because of the risk of maternity leave. Yet would they have the same reaction to insurance companies discriminating against men due to higher risk of accidents? I think not. Hypocrites.

BrianD3

daggeredge

I agree BrianD3!
Of course your going to get your typical flood of feminists who haven't read your post
complaining your saying there's something wrong with maternity leave now!

As regards the car insurance, I'd like to see the shoe on the other foot and women having to pay three times more for the privelage of being female (like we're doing.... because thats just what it is ,paying for something on your birth cert you cannot change.)see how long that would last....

It should be on an experience (driving lessons?) basis , maybe we should have the same driving school system as America (without the automatic cars of course)

On a seperate note:
As i mentioned b4 they already have the equal status insurance in canada
And I just rang my cousin (same age as me, 20) and He's paying 400 CA dollars
which is about 242 Euro on a '00 2.5 Subaru Forester turbo...
I'm paying €1300 on a '97 1 litre micra (under my mother)

Think i might move, the tickets would pay for themselves!

MadsL

Originally posted by BrianD3
Imagine if insurance companies required drivers to state their race when applying for insurance. Statistics could then be generated regarding the relative accident rates of blacks, whites etc. and whichever race had the highest claims could be loaded accordingly. How would people react to that?
<edit> oh yeah, what about the Eagle "Lady Star" policies. Would Eagle Star get away with marketing "Black Star" or "White Star" or "Able-Bodied Star" policies?????

Quinn Direct do this. They specifically ask two questions before they quote;
1. What is your country of origin?
2. How long have you lived in Ireland

My wife was quoted 500 euro more for answering America to the first question even though she holds a full Irish license. When I out of devilment rang back and told them about my Korean 'friend' (same details as my wife but with Korea as the country of origin) the quote was 2800 more! :eek:

I have challenged them about this and they say that they have the data that proves different nationalities present different levels of risk. And no, they will not publish the data.

Equality commission, Financial Services Regulatory Authority, Federation of Motor Insurers are all powerless to stop this dispicable practice. Please, the next time you call them for a quote - complain heavily about these questions.

Wrestlemania

Quinn Direct are by far the most ignorant shower of ba5tards around.

I rang one day a 5 times because I was bored and was to find out living in Louth! and being a male that insurance for a 1.2 Skoda Fabia with 5 years ncb and 27 years old. Full license etc was 3300

C'mon hibernian are half that and not on that scheme either.

As I said before we have knobs and are getting penalised for that, what would happen if I was a Hamofropdhite (Spelling) now let me seem them load for that.

Imposter

Another point that hasn't been raised yet about age is that it is constantly changing. When I was around 20 the heavily penalised group was under 21. Then when I was 21/22 it was suddenly 25 and now that i'm 25+ it seems to be 30. How can they justify this?

For me I never got a licence in Ireland because of the cost of insurance. It's the first thing I did when I moved over here to Austria. I paid quite a lot of money for lessons and training but now I have a full licence with proper training, cheaper than it would cost in Ireland.

Add to that I now drive a 1.6l car with 1 full years experience and my tax and insurance comes to 1080€ for the year.

I'll say it again but car insurance should be based on driving experience and only driving experience and not discriminatory criteria such as age, sex, disability, race, or profession.

Wrestlemania

Very true I noticed that aswell.!!

Calibos

I found the same with regard to age threshold increasing just as I reached said age.
I've finally caught up though!

Paying €1350 Fully comp. with full no claims, full licence 9 years on a '98 1.6 A3 (Value approx €11,000) with Hibernian. A few days after my 30th back in january I entered the same details in their online quoting system except age as 30 instead of 29. Quote was €700. Pity they didn't base my years renewal in Aug '03 on being 29 for half the year and 30 for the other half! Barstewards. Anyway I'm getting a new 2.0 TDI A3 sport (€40,000) in about 3 weeks and the online system is quoting me about €1000.

Of course no doubt after a certain age the premium will start going back up as you are now deemed to be a doddering stubborn old fool whose reaction times are slower and are now more likely to have accidents again. ie They'll crucify you till your thirty and then as you hit 40 they'll start crucifying you again. 10 years out of 60 years driving with decent quotes. Effing robbers the lot of em!!! :D:D

Blitzkrieger

Some of my points have been made already but.......

Originally posted by ravenhead
I'm not saying that women are better driver - of course not...

Thank god

Originally posted by ravenhead
but we are more careful & on that only should premiums be decided...

The whole point of insurance is shared responsibility, so in theory no premium should be loaded. It should only be loaded for young/inexperienced drivers (not as crazy as it is now, of course) and people who've had/caused accidents.

Originally posted by ravenhead
until guys learn to slow down, their insurance is never going to come down & that's only right....

Anybody see stereotyping and discrimination here? Not all 'guys' drive like maniacs. Do we deserve to be treated like we do. If this was based on race, it'd be made illegal in a flash. If you tried to hike black people's insurance just because they're black nobody would stand for it. Let's face it, if things were reversed it wouldn't be tolerated either. If women were paying higher premiums because they were women the equality boards would be all over it.

Originally posted by Imposter
I'm pretty sure if statistics were available for it that it could be shown that people with a college education would be less of a risk.

It's actually true. When you move from 'student' to 'engineer' your premium usually drops to reflect this.

Originally posted by ravenhead
so why should I pay more for my insurance just so guys can get what you call equality?

In health insurance companies have to pay out far more for women than men. Why do I have to pay more for health insurance so women can have equality? Because the goverment has made discrimination illegal in the insurance industry.

Originally posted by irish1
I hope the insurance companies do ignore it and end up with a huge legal bill.

Which they'll then pass onto us.

Originally posted by ravenhead
Of course they make more money cause it's mostly men that are involved in high paying accidents

He means profit. Even though they might have to pay out more for claims relating to accidents with young male drivers, the extra premiums they charge us more than make up for it.

Originally posted by ravenhead
men are charged more because they are a higher risk

Am I a higher risk than you? Did the insurance company ever come and assess my driving to determine how much of a risk I am? The whole point is that this quote is not based on me. It's based on a 24yo male driving a 240bhp car. They've based my premium on a sterotype - not anything to do with my actual driving.

I tell a lie - Hibernian knocked 30% off my premium because I proved I was a good driver by passing an advanced driving test with the Institute of Advanced Motorists (www.advancedmotorists.ie).

Another important point everybody has missed is that most of the cost of major claims is personal injury. Young men typically have more people in the car when driving, so there's likely to be more injuries when we're involved in an accident. Not every young man killed in a road accident was driving.

JabbaTheHut

Yep,the premiums should be the same.(sometimes I reckon that insurance companies would never insure some of their female drivers if they saw how they drive) :eek:

Anyway,the thing is,if equality comes in,womens insurance will increase,and men's MIGHT drop slightly.In the end,the equality will just result in insurance companies having an excuse to charge women more,and make even more money.Chances are,everyone, except the insurance companies,will loose out.

btw, Blitzkrieger, that link doesn't work.